Obama warns - August 3rd - Possibly no social security checks will be paid.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

it will be against the cause of our problems. the current government.

And the bankers who committed massive wide scale fraud have no responsibility in our current problems?

The government failed to do its job of properly regulating business, but what do you expect when you elect a president and a congress which does not believe that government should act to prevent or punish white collar crime.

The fact remains it was primarily the finance industry that were the perps in this wide spread crime spree.

What the last decade proves is that without regulations, without the government enforcing laws against white collar crime, crime will run amuck in the business world, and we all get screwed.

One of the biggest goals of your extremist repub controlled house is to further prevent the government from doing its job, and rounding up the crooks who created this mess, and putting things back right again.

Then again, maybe the sadder reality is that the biggest problem is after all the white collar crime over the last decade, there are still large numbers of programmed zombies out there who want to blame government for the actions of Wall Street.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


You failed to comprehend my post. It's not about wars or who to be blame for ww1 or ww2 or ANY war. My post is about WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A BIG AND POWERFUL NATION DEFAULTS on payments.

War or no wars, the treaty of versailles is good case study of what would follow within a society when default happens.

Thus my plea again, best the conservatives, right wingers,etc know the hell what they are doing. USA is not Greece or Iceland or even Spain, small nations which do not have the capabilities to MASSIVELY rock the world's population, with no arsenals of armed might of consequences, no huge pool of human capital for innovation, and no reasources that could feed itself for a longer time, unlike one nation in the world that could and that's USA.

It's time the elites and super-rich of our world share their wealth, instead of the likes of Koch brothers playing the dangerous games that the aristocracy,military castes and elites in Germany did when the versailles treaty reparations payments were due, or another devil in the form of human like Hilter will only arise to wipe us all out finally and decisively with modern tech and weapons this time.

reply to post by poet1b


where did i say it was all obama's fault like you claimed i said? i never did. frequently i've said republicans are also to blame. you're the one who keeps saying i blame obama for everything, not me.

show me how those statements you quoted are wrong. they're all true.

i've never visited hotair.com until i made that post. i was looking for numbers, and thats all i posted from the website. numbers. care to show how they were wrong?

all the inference i did was my own. its common sense. the numbers i've used (and you still haven't refuted the fact that we will be 22-26 trillion in debt if obama has his way. that's fact. so yes, i do blame him for that, because hes doing it right now.) are accurate.

you yourself blame the republicans for everything, but i guess thats ok if you hate them, right? quite hypocritical of you

i've asked time and again for you to discredit what i'm saying, but you generally move on to a different topic after i refute your statements.

yes. bankers have a hand in it, but common people on the street will go for the government because that's who they perceive as the problem.

the dems supported tax loopholes for huge corporations last time around. but in your partisan mind its all the republican's fault, right? more hypocrisy.

whats happened is lobbyists come in, bribe congressmen to make laws in their favor, and laugh all the way to the bank. big government has allowed it, and prospers on it.

i think i've showed that i'm not extremist at all. you're blaming everything on the republicans again. even more hypocrisy. so basically, in your mind, house republicans are to blame for everything, forgetting that when obama was elected dems had the majority.

right now, it is obama who has said he will block the republicans attempt to pass legislation to raise the deficit. it passed the house, yet he will block it because he doesn't want to spend responsibly.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


my reply was meant to show that we aren't in the same situation as germany was.

you're right. i too hope they know what they're doing, but in the end obama will block the bill that just passed in the house. he's already said he will.

that bill is the only chance for us to rid ourselves of our huge debt, and government misuse of funds. obama would have to be a fool to reject it. WHO WOULD BE STUPID ENOUGH TO SPEND MORE THAN THEY MAKE? sorry. its so simple, its frustrating.

i've thought about what will happen with our military, nuclear submarines, and things like that if we default. i honestly don't know.

Originally posted by poet1b

When you acknowledge that almost all of our nations debt was created under republican presidents, and and start talking about the failure of republican politicians in creating this mess, then you might have some credibility as non-partisan,

"Blame it all on the republicans".

How non-partisan of you!

I guess you're not old enough to remember the Carter years, but you may be able to remember the Obama years hence forth - I just bet you'll recall them under those "non partisan", but shifted obviously to the left, blinders.

here's the deal.

The republicans, particularly under the tender ministrations of the Bush (both I and II) neocons, made a hell of a mess. The democrats have done NOTHING to fix that mess, and are in fact trying to dig the hole deeper, just as fast as they can dig.

Obama didn't "inherit" a damn thing. He BEGGED for the job, not "inherited" it. In order to get it, he made a lot of grand promises that never bore fruit, probably because he's been too busy fleecing America on behalf of his corporate masters and the Bankers to attend to those promises. Just because Bush and companies are thieves doesn't make Obama a saint, by any means.

Not even by comparison.

All your rants about "whether we'd rather live under an over-bearing government or over-bearing corporations? What, pray tell, is the difference? Isn't over-bearing over-bearing, no matter what the source? Are we forgetting that Goldman-Sachs OWNS the Obama administration, bought and paid for? Are we forgetting his CONTINUATION of Bush's corporate welfare handouts... oops, I mean "BAIL outs"? Are we forgetting the windfall boon he's trying to give to the insurance companies with Obama Care, by forcing the People, the same "People" he threatens to "take it to" in the current debacle, to make a purchase of their "product"?

"Non-partisan" my ass. Your partisanship shines through, glaringly. Yet you have the nerve to take someone else to the woodshed for being partisan?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


If you have blamed the repubs for anything, please post the quote and link to the post.

You provide numbers that claim Obama proposes this and that, but you provide no links to back up said claims, when I post the numbers and the links that prove you wrong, you try to deny that you have been proven wrong, and then make some poorly done calculations in order to attempt to prove you were not wrong, all of it aimed at Obama, and the quotes I provided prove it, including you mocking of Obama's possible birthday plans.

The one link you provide is such obvious right wing propaganda it is pathetic.

You fool no one.

reply to post by nenothtu


On this issue, I am not partisan, and never claimed I was.

While you say "forget being partisan", you clearly are extremely partisan. Is there any issue you agree with the liberal side?

Personally, I am against political correctness, and see a great deal of bigotry in the positions of liberal elites.

Sure I remember Carter, most messed up thing he did was repeal laws against usury, which should be reinstated, but neither side dares to say such a thing. Most likely the tea baggers would throw the biggest hissy fit.

Carter inherited stag inflation and rampant crime from the Nixon Ford years. Do you remember tricky Dicky? A great many people from his corrupt admin snuck back into power under Reagan, and the Reagan years were far worse for working people in the U.S. than under Carter. In addition to using the war on drugs to strip us of our rights, Reagan also opened the flood gate to illegal immigration. Are you aware of any of this?

Never said that Obama inherited the job, only that he inherited the mess created by the GW Admin under the con of the free market.

When are you going to wake up to the reality that attempts to create a free market are what created this mess in the first place, and that the repubs in the House only want to continue the same policies. They aren't out to cut corporate welfare, corporations put them in office, they are bought and paid for.

The goal of the tea baggers is to cut the budget of the exec admin whose job it is to round up the crooks and hold them responsible for their crimes.

You support the people trying to protect the crooks who destroyed our economy.

When are you going to stop drinking the kool-aid?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nenothtu

 

When are you going to wake up to the reality that attempts to create a free market are what created this mess in the first place, and that the repubs in the House only want to continue the same policies.

Poet, the above is exactly what I oppose... I am not a line item liberal either, people think I am...
But, this attempt to create free markets in a highly regulated world market place is just another way
to create a syphon for the elites to drain off more equity from "we the people". They manufacture loop holes,
call it free market and everyone cheers! But the fact is. Free Marketeers as of late, legalize quasi criminal concepts that usually depend on screwing the majority of people by creating insane, socialized risk. This makes me very opposed to people who are too ideological to see the pattern, or even recognize the impact of these policies.

Currently the Repubs and Co, want to defund the SEC, in a time when we were just burned by a hands off approach, the Repubs have not learned anything, zero. This makes me think the hoards of faithful followers
are insane, stupid or evil. I am not sure why the elites should be allowed to manufacture a system that threatens the well being of anyone with a buck, but the GOP policies sure seem to promote the idea. Expect that robbing
a bank will get you 25, but the robbing the depositors will get you 25, Billion. Because the crime has been
sanctioned by Free Marketeers and their loopholes, there is no recourse, no crime, ALL FREEDOM!

I have to pay for the backlash, my money is devalued, my property and my wages are hit because
three senators decriminalized a concept that was once criminal 12 years ago... nice


2008 was a culmination of Reagans dream and GOP is busy trying to erect a repeat.
This is the most dangerous force on the Earth IMO, unmitigated greed, the GOP's calling card.

who is the Commie here???

reply to post by Janky Red

Currently the Repubs and Co, want to defund the SEC, in a time when we were just burned by a hands off approach, the Repubs have not learned anything, zero. This makes me think the hoards of faithful followers
are insane, stupid or evil.

Exactly. To continue to support free market ideology after the destruction of our economy as a result of Gingrich succeeding in getting Glass Steagal repealed, to me, is being a programmed zombie. How do they continue to cling to such delusion?

reply to post by poet1b

and if you've read any of my posts, you would see that i dislike republicans as equally. i've already said i don't blame obama solely, but he hasn't helped things.

as i've said a billion times, i know republicans are corrupt, and so are democrats. all of them are.

make no mistake, democrats AND republicans in congress are fighting for their own purposes, neither side cares about the elderly.

honestly i wonder if you even read my posts. remember, this is a thread about obama's threat. now. show me where you've supported the republicans even once. and you say I'M partisan. its sad you don't see how blinded you've become.

you haven't proved me or my numbers wrong. here, i'll repost the gist of it. debt in 10 years WITH obama's "savings" plan will be 22-26 trillion dollars. the previous year's deficit was 1.2 trillion. this year isn't over, but if you take the average for every month, and add it to the last, you get 1.3 trillion. pretty consistent. need i remind you the deficit this year was higher per month than last year until the government ran out of money. obama's savings is 3 trillion from cuts, 1 trillion from increased taxes. thats -400 billion per year. 1.2 trillion-400 billion is .8 trillion. .8 x 10 years is 8 trillion dollars, plus 14.2 trillion is 22.2 trillion dollars.

show me my math is wrong. those numbers are from the source you posted. prove them wrong in the next post, or admit i'm right. stop dodging.

obama's having a HUGE birthday party at a historic ballroom, complete with a concert, the day after we run out of money. if you don't see anything wrong with that, replace "obama" with "republicans" and you will no doubt flame away.

i posted two links. the ONLY thing i took from the "right wing propaganda" article was a figure that said every american billionare combined is worth 1.3 trillion. which means we can't tax our way out. obama knows that, and his plan reflects it. 1 trillion of his 4 trillion "savings" is from increased taxes.

to sum it up: show me where you've supported republicans anywhere in this thread (you haven't), and show me how my math is wrong, or accept i'm right. (you can't, because its not). you're one of the most partisan people i've come across on this forum, and you don't even have the decency to admit it. instead you call everyone else partisan.

no one's fooled? i'd say you've fooled yourself pretty well. zing!

Why is it,with this crowd,that compromise always means raise taxes now and cut spending later,when we all know,no one ever cuts spending?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


While you say you have problems with republicans, you never actually point out those problems, you don't acknowledge that our current debt problem was created primarily by republicans. You say one thing, but do another.

I have already proven you wrong on your claims about the deficit. Your pathetic attempts at math ignores massive amounts of data, and is child like in its presentation.

The recent spike of deficit spending was brought about by the mortgage collapse, in order to prevent our entire market system from collapsing. This was all created by massive fraud due to deregulation, which is the huge fact you keep ignoring. That might require you actually putting the blame on the republican party, which is what you avoid doing at all cost, aside from some lip service comments about republican corruption. Political corruption isn't the disease, it is only the symptom. Free market economic ideology is the disease.

You just ignore the realities and keep claiming that you are right.

If the banks keep shutting down, and the numbers of the employed keep dropping, none of it will matter anyway. Our economy isn't getting better, it is continuing to get worse.

You keep blaming the government, because that is what you were programmed to believe, but this mortgage crisis was created by the deregulated finance markets, and this gaping wound in our economy isn't on its way to healing.

For research I found writing this reply, see this new thread I started.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

U.S. troops are returning to the U.S. from Afghanistan.
Obama is letting Capital Gains Tax Breaks expire.
Obama will be reelected in 2012.
There soon won't be a debt problem.

Originally posted by ren1999
U.S. troops are returning to the U.S. from Afghanistan.
Obama is letting Capital Gains Tax Breaks expire.
Obama will be reelected in 2012.
There soon won't be a debt problem.

You lost me there?

I entirely agreed with your post in another thread, but so far we have no guarantee of letting those tax breaks expire, and even if they do expire, it isn't enough, it is just a start.

The debt problem is going to last many generations, unless we take drastic and painful measures, and those measures will not be politically popular, so they probably won't happen.

If Obama is reelected in 2012, there will be riots.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Our nation recovered from massive debt after WW II, and our productive capabilities have improve greatly since then.

There is no reason why we can't do it again.

Let em riot.

reply to post by poet1b


Our productive capabilites improved because of an intentional shift from an economically conservative lifestyle to a frivolous consumptionist lifestyle. It was intentionally engineered that way, and it is the basis of our current problem. We can't do that again. This time the solution is to reverse what was done after WWII and get back to a lifestyle that reuses and conserves resources.

Check out this video. The Story of Stuff.

But yes, we can recover. It will just take some hard decisions and some sacrifice by everyone, and the answers will not be popular answers. It will take very strong and honest leadership. Not Obama. Not Romney. Not Palin. Not any of the normal candidates. We need a Truman/Eisenhower/Roosevelt/JFK type of leader.

this thread isn't about the shortcomings of the republicans, its about obama making threats. i'm staying on topic. you haven't showed any support for republicans, or dislike for democrats yet. i have. that is a perfect example of your partisan leanings.

you haven't proven my claims wrong about the deficit. you keep saying "i've proved you wrong" without actually doing it. its really tiring and sad. i've provided a rebuttal to every one of your claims. you can't say the same, unless "you're wrong" is something you consider an astute answer.

"too big to fail" is a very foolish policy. i never supported the bailouts. the housing market collapsed because of the fed. they sought to keep demand AND prices rising, and did so by creating artificial demand by setting interest rates very low. prices skyrocketed as people tried to make a quick buck buying and reselling houses. the bubble burst, and the last few years has been the result.

you forget it was bill clinton who signed the 1999 GLB act into law, and it was almost unanimously bipartisan after it was revised. this is the bill obama blames for the current economic crisis, and it was BIPARTISAN! the house vote was 362-57, and the senate vote was 90-8. yet you blame republicans for it? i put blame on both parties, as it was bipartisan, yet you only hate the republicans? shows something about your bias.

You keep blaming the government, because that is what you were programmed to believe, but this mortgage crisis was created by the deregulated finance markets

yes, and who voted for the GLB act? a bipartisan congress, signed into law by a democrat president. still blame the republicans? of course you do, that's all you know.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Don't worry, Obama won't be re elected. No matter how many billion$ he spends on his campaign. (And what a horror of a travesty and waste that is) I listen to 'progressive' talk radio, and every caller I heard on air, was boiling mad at our Prez. Yesterday I listened to this woman who voted for him say, "He's a dud!" She was boiling mad. I had put my vote in (as I duck and move behind something sturdy) but don't any of you worry. NOT next time. Not even if he carts out the Roswell ET bodies. Not even.

reply to post by simone50m


No need to duck, my vote was right in the same bucket as yours. McCain/Palin scared the hell out of me, I couldn't go there. I was mad at Ron Paul for his VP choice and the graffitti in my town from his immature campaign, and at least Obama was an unknown, with some charisma, and the claim of being an outsider.

I was duped, but he was probably still the best choice at the time.

This time, I will sink every possible effort into getting Ron Paul mainstream support. I will vote for him, even if the vote is wasted.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nenothtu

 

On this issue, I am not partisan, and never claimed I was.

Choosing sides, "democrat vs. republican", is the very definition of partisan - it means to toe the party line. If the shoe fits...

While you say "forget being partisan", you clearly are extremely partisan. Is there any issue you agree with the liberal side?

Okay, I'll bite. which "party" am I being "partisan" in favor of? I'll need something out of your evidence room to prove your point on that one, not just another "well you ARE!".

Yes, I often find myself agreeing with "liberals". It's a very uncomfortable place to be, and I have several posts scattered across ATS remarking on the discomfort I have when I find myself in that position.

Sure I remember Carter, most messed up thing he did was repeal laws against usury, which should be reinstated, but neither side dares to say such a thing. Most likely the tea baggers would throw the biggest hissy fit.

You think that was the worst thing he did? Something that no one but you even remembers?

Seriously?

In four years of absolute blunders, I'm not sure the man ever did anything at all right! On the positive side, he was probably the best president Panama EVER had! I'm not even sure which "usury laws" you're referring to. Interest has been charged on loans ever since I can remember, and that's long before the Carter years, It certainly never made the news at the time, but there was so much going on, and none of it good, that it must have slipped through the cracks.

Carter inherited stag inflation and rampant crime from the Nixon Ford years.

Uh... yeah... of COURSE he did... Evidently, the mantra is "democrats only 'inherit' problems, so they don't have to fix anything". I lived through those years. The Carter economy was the worst I'd ever seen up until the end of the Bush years. Neither Nixon nor Ford could even hold a candle to Carter for sheer ineptitude, nor anyone since - until Bush II and Obama.

Do you remember tricky Dicky?

Yup, i remember him. Kept his campaign promise to extract all the troops from Vietnam, thus allowing Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos ALL to fall to the communists. Then, to add insult to injury, he got his dumb ass busted playing the dirty tricks game in matters of campaign intelligence gathering on his opposition. I've got no great love for the man. Why do you ask? How does he relate at all to the discussion at hand?

A great many people from his corrupt admin snuck back into power under Reagan, and the Reagan years were far worse for working people in the U.S. than under Carter.

WHICH "working people"? I was "working people" during both those times, and Carter damn near killed us all! If Reagan hadn't got Carter's mess straightened out, there probably wouldn't even BE an America now. All the working people I know were staggering pretty hard under Carter's inflation rates and such. His mishandling of everything from economic matters to foreign policy is what EARNED him the distinctive title of "worst chief executive ever"... until now, that is...

In addition to using the war on drugs to strip us of our rights, Reagan also opened the flood gate to illegal immigration. Are you aware of any of this?

The "War on Drugs" has been going on forever. Reagan only mis-named it. I guess you don't recall the debacle about Paraquat spraying in Mexico under Carter? Johnson and Nixon both did some pretty horrendous rights-abrogating things under the guise of "protecting" dopers from themselves, and we ALL suffered for it, and do to this day. To try to lay the whole thing on Reagan, just because he was a republican, is disingenuous at best.

Never said that Obama inherited the job, only that he inherited the mess created by the GW Admin under the con of the free market.

Sure. He didn't deserve the job, then, if he wasn't bright enough to know that the economic woes came along with it. "Inherited" my ass, he begged for them. Hasn't done a damn thing to fix 'em, either - only made it worse. Maybe, since he's hard after raising taxes, he can assess an "inheritance" tax on that?

You know, right in the beginning, the "inheritance" argument might work, but after a couple of years of doing nothing to fix the problems, and in fact only exacerbating them, that whiny mantra gets thin. He OWNS this mess. Whether he "inherited" it or bought it out right is immaterial - he still OWNS it, and refuses to FIX it.

Reagan "inherited" double digit inflation from Carter - but he didn't just sit on it, he fixed it.

When are you going to wake up to the reality that attempts to create a free market are what created this mess in the first place, and that the repubs in the House only want to continue the same policies.

I dunno. Maybe. I've not got a firm handle yet on just what this nebulous thing is that they are now applying the label "free market" to. A "free market" is what built America - up until it started declining. Somehow, I get the impression that what they now refer to as a "free market" is anything BUT a liberty-based economic system. It worked for years... until some one, some where, apparently has tried to re-define it to mean something other than what it says.

They aren't out to cut corporate welfare, corporations put them in office, they are bought and paid for.

Whoa there big fella! The democrats don't get a pass on that! Can't just leave the republicans holding the bag there! That applies equally to ALL sides of this equation! Better go look up the facts behind the rhetoric of campaign contributions before you claim it's only the republicans who are bought and paid for. Obama's gift of the money of ALL of us to the insurance corporations is but one example that gives the lie to that whole premise. His continuation of the Bush bail-outs is another example, and his insistence in raising the debt ceiling to pay bankers interest on debts we shouldn't have is yet another.

Nope, it ain't ALL republicans, as much as the politically partisan WISH it was!

The goal of the tea baggers is to cut the budget of the exec admin whose job it is to round up the crooks and hold them responsible for their crimes.

I dunno. I'd like to trim the whole damn thing back myself - every facet of government. I CERTAINLY take exception to things like the recent arming of Mexican drug Cartels by the US government. Seems to me like if they're going to exist at this size, they ought to find something productive to do to make a showing for their paychecks. I'd be every bit as happy as I am right now if Bush's "Homeland Security", the entire BATFE, most of the IRS, and several other useless federal eaters just suddenly ceased to exist, and others got severely pruned back to manageable levels. I wonder how far FIRING large chunks of useless eaters in the federal government would go towards freeing up money for useful purposes? I think it would be worth finding out. Couldn't hurt, as a minimum.

You support the people trying to protect the crooks who destroyed our economy.

Huh? no, just.... no. I'm arguing with you, ain't I? You are trying to protect Obama, who is hard after finishing us off, yet oddly I'm not supporting you in that effort.

When are you going to stop drinking the kool-aid?

Coming from you, that's hilarious! The funniest part is that you seem not to understand why that's hilarious!