Mosque taking over old church in my town

In my little town of Carnegie, Pennsylvania (about 8,000 people and five miles from Downtown Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) the borough decided to let people of the Islamic faith take a vacant Presbyterian church and turn it into a mosque. Source

First of all so everyone knows my town is a very diverse little town.

Carnegie is religiously diverse, marked by the number of churches as well as bars in the neighborhood. There are two Orthodox Churches (Ukrainian and Russian), two Lutheran churches, a Ukrainian Catholic church, a Methodist church, An Episcopal church, a Polish Catholic church and a synagogue. The churches were primarily responsible for assisting the community after Hurricane Ivan.

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Now in my town the borough has allowed a local Muslim faction to convert a Presbyterian church into a Mosque. Now at first I thought it could be a bad thing, especially after I read an article in the local paper. I had to get this from a website so it is not from the article in its entirety.

"I'm here to ask for a delay on your vote ... due to the fact that few Carnegie residents know anything about the issue at all," Prion said. "Do you think the voters wouldn't care or be interested in this subject? Why is this, not on the fast track, but on the super fast track for a vote?"

I heard about the mosque many months ago from word of mouth by some friends in town. Usually we know whats going on before most though, my grandfather works for free at a gas station where the owner used to be the Mayer. So a lot I hear from my pops.

Now that Carnegie Borough Council has approved an Islamic center to move into town, the question remains: Why didn't more people know about it? And why Carnegie? These issues and questions were put before Manager Jeff Harbin and council members this week. Joann Prion was one resident who expressed surprised that the issue of the Attawheed Islamic Center in Carnegie had not been brought up more often by council. "Everything about this may be as pure as the driven snow, but the way it has been presented gives the appearance of secrecy," Prion told council at a June 13 public comment hearing on the center. Resident Bridget VanDorn also asked council to take more time before making its decision. "There are concerns among people (in Carnegie) about people who absolutely follow the Quran...I think it is important to take your time with this," VanDorn said.

Carnegie is located 5 miles from downtown Pittsburgh and along two major Highways I-279 and I-79. It is rather easy to get to and in a really convenient location.

Christians from other another county are even concerned with this matter.

"I have questions: Who are these people? Are they American citizens? Has anyone done a background check on them?" said Tucci, whose church is part of a national network of Bible-based churches with headquarters in Reserve, La., according to its website. "I'm not saying all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims. We need more information about these people before they are allowed to move in and ruin a community."

Now I don't think they will ruin the community if they are just people who want a place of worship, although converting a christian church into a mosque isn't the best way to start if you ask me. However adding the mosque could help the town considering Muslim's worship many times a day and the church is located in the business district of town. Also it could attract people to the town considering its peaceful multicultural surroundings. (It's amazing to walk through neighborhoods of the Ukrainians during Easter and see their extravagant Easter eggs).

"Adding our center there will make Carnegie a center for the three Abrahamic religions," Al-Walid Mohsen, vice president and manager of Attawheed Islamic Center, said of the Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths. "Maybe that will make a good name for Carnegie." The addition of a mosque in the town of roughly 8,000 would be positive, said Rick D'Loss, a council member and president of Carnegie's synagogue, Congregation Ahavath Achim. "It could make Carnegie an example of coexistence," D'Loss said.

Now only time will tell if these people will add the great community here or worsen it. I do believe since, technically, we are in a time of war these people should be background checked and such to make sure they are everyday American's. However, not to the point of harassing them. What is your point on this ATS? Do you think Islam is taking over? Or do you think they are harmless religious folk?

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I say leave them alone and allow them to worship whom ever they like. This practice is the reason why there is a christian based church on every corner where I live.
I don't think any background check is needed. If you start a background check with these people then you will also need to check all the Catholic, Baptist, LDS etc attendees also. It would only be fair.

You can't just single one group out because their beliefs are different. I'm pretty sure this Mosque isn't looking for any special attention just the right to worship how they see fit. As long as they don't interfere with anyone else then so be it.

reply to post by AudioGhost


As with the Mosque in NYC, everyone has a right to property regardless of race, religion, sex, or personal persuasion. Private property rights are engrained within our Constitution, and individuals who disparage at such a legal practice are ignorant to our laws.

I do not see anything wrong with this, people will still pray to God. My personal belief is that language and rituals hardly matters in this case. Not all terrorists are Muslims, and surely not all billion plus Muslims are terrorists.
So it is fine.
What i would like to see is the Muslim leaders declaring that it will be equally fine to open Church in empty mosque, and here i think is the root of the problem. Western Christian society cultural mainstream is past its aggressive convertion/inquisition stage and understands what tolerance and co-existence is about. Muslim society mainstream is not. It is not religion, it is indeed cultural level.
So what is important is demand of mutual tolerance. Muslim leaders should push for it because otherwise fanatics will continue to pull it into direction of religious intolerance.

Islam is a political ideology disguised as a religion.

If it were just a simple thing like a religion, then it'd be no big deal.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


I'm with you on letting them worship, I'm a constitutionalist. However I don't think it is unnecessary to background check these people during a "time of war". I don't considerate it a war but if we are going to call it that then we should treat it like one. We put the Japanese in internment camps, 27 I believe, and they did what we asked. We sent them to war to prove that they are loyal Americans, they later became the most decorated regiment in the History of the United States Military. If we can do this to other people, why not them?

Originally posted by beezzer
Islam is a political ideology disguised as a religion.

If it were just a simple thing like a religion, then it'd be no big deal.

You could say that about a few religions. How many people do you know that vote for someone because they are of a certain religion? For example how many Mormons do you think will vote for Mitt Romney? I'm gonna guess and say many.

P.S. I am in no way attacking Latter Day Saints, just using it as an example.

At least you'll know where they are.
Makes it easier to keep track of them.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

What i would like to see is the Muslim leaders declaring that it will be equally fine to open Church in empty mosque, and here i think is the root of the problem.

You are exactly right, however how many mosque's are there compared to church's? I think it will take some time till their are empty mosque's around to convert to another religion here in the US.

reply to post by AudioGhost


I too am a constitutionalist but I think if we do it to one we must do it to all religions or not at all. People forget that we are at war with "extremists" not the Islam religion.

reply to post by AudioGhost


Because it was wrong and we're still apologizing for it?

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive

Originally posted by beezzer
Islam is a political ideology disguised as a religion.

If it were just a simple thing like a religion, then it'd be no big deal.

You could say that about a few religions. How many people do you know that vote for someone because they are of a certain religion? For example how many Mormons do you think will vote for Mitt Romney? I'm gonna guess and say many.

P.S. I am in no way attacking Latter Day Saints, just using it as an example.

edit on 2-7-2011 by TheLieWeLive because: (no reason given)

Good point. But would a Romney push for mormon idelogy across the land? Would a mormon leader try to influence the neighborhood, the state, the country like islamic ideology does?

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


Good point, however how do we find the difference between the religious and the extremists? If there was a better way I would be for it. I'm not asking them to tap their phones or read their mail or e-mails.

Although I don't see where you're going with checking those of all religions. Are the Muslim terrorists working with the Jews? If they are all Muslim why not just check the Muslims? why should we waste tax money and people's time's by checking those we know are not involved? Call it profiling but if they have nothing to hide and are normal everyday Americans why not?

I am for them practicing their religion there but not if it is a bunch of extremists.

reply to post by ReluctantBlossom


Was it wrong? Yes it was. Would it be wrong not to do it? Sure it could have been. Now we can sit here and debate it but we will never know. Think if they didn't do it. The government might not have had anything against them but what says people of the KKK or other hate groups, and people who had brothers, fathers, mothers, sisters, sons, daughters in the military at that time wouldn't have hatred towards Japanese?

I think it would have been lose lose either way. I'm not saying everyone at that time had hatred against the Japanese, but when you get a few rotten apples it speaks for a lot of people.

Infiltrate the mosque and keep tabs on everything they do... what? Let's see how they like it.

I live in PA also. This happened a few years ago in my town as well. Pre 9/11 world. Still there was a huge amount of anger in my small community but in the end the Mosque has come in and been there for years now. There are about 20-30 Muslims staying there as well. In the future it will be just another part of town.

I am not sure if we are getting Buddhist Shrines or Hindu places of worship on top of churches at the rate of Mosques across the world turning Churches to Mosques.

But like I have said before in other posts it seems an in built jealous religious fraud that keeps happening no matter where you are in the world and has been going on since Islam began, but even before Islam the in built nature of the adversaries derives from an old age Covenant between Isaac and Ishmael and Abraham while one was left to multiply in the dessert regions while the other held the seed-line of Christ from Adams linage.

But just in case people are not aware the Church will no longer be taught about Christ's salvation for man.

With Islam You get this.

Jews are not the bloodlines of the prophets.

No original sin means the Devil gets away with Adam and Eve’s deception.

No Jesus on the cross means no salvation of sin and resurrection of death.

The Devil gets away with Judas, it never happened, Judas replaces the Jesus on the cross.

Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran, only in a vague dream.

Jesus comes back to destroy the Jews and Zionism.

An Islamic Imam prophet is to arise during a time of great conflicts.

Historical places for the Jews and Christains in the Middle East end up being closed off and places of conflict, this nature spreading across the world. More Churches are burnt down by Muslims than any other group apart from Satanist in Europe who have something against them.

The Jewish Prophets where the tombs are situated in Israel and mentioned in the Bible has been a place of conflict even if they don't represent the story of the Islamic version of creation with their main protagonist Ishmael their first ever descendent who is not even amongst the tombs of the Patriarchs but is decorated in Islamic art and place where Jews have found it hard to entre.
en.wikipedia.org...

This is a common trend and no one else seems to be doing this in the same light across the world.

reply to post by beezzer



I'm not trying to defend Islam or any religion for that matter. I just want to point out that once you start more emphasis on one religion then the door is opened to do it to them all. All or nothing.

Also, No I don't think Romney could push his religion if he wanted to. America is diverse enough to hopefully never allow the dominance of one religion.

reply to post by AudioGhost


Since when you are in war with these people? Would you do background checks for christians, jews, wiccas etc?

reply to post by AudioGhost


The FBI will have people attending the services incognito. Don't worry about that. They attend all questionable gatherings.