If you want a national police force, & national ID cards keep on beating up on illegals.

This is in the conspiracy thread because my theory has all the hallmarks of Icke's "problem, reaction, solution" line of government power grabbing.

Problem: a massive influx of illegal immigrants. We all know the Federal government could cut the amount of illegals down tremendously with a few simple policy changes. They wont, be it for traditional political reasons or for something more sinister. They obviously want illegals to be illegal otherwise the would reform immigration. Thats what 80% of the 2006 mid term elections where about.

Reaction: You almost only get two reactions out of people. On the extreme end its round them all up, put em jail and deport them. On the soft end its punish those that hire them, so the illegals will starve and have to leave the country. Or you get the people the people that want amnesty, which im hard pressed to find outside the establishment or people that have illegal family members.

Event: Narco terrorist start bombings and attacking Americans in america coupled with a worse economic situation than we have now.

Solution: Now the fun part. Sure the simple solution is the starve them out one but that would be to slow and probably wouldnt work anyway unless we went to a cashless society! wait cashless society! oh yea how do you tell what illegal is with out infringing on his rights. Easy make all citizens prove their citizenship to the federal government, with a national ID card. That will make it easy for ICE to tell who needs to go to the refugee camps.

Or we can just end all social welfare and give an easy path to citizenship to everyone who wants to be a citizen

reply to post by stevooo


Yeah, because that is the logical conclusion from those pitching that we have open borders and so on,.

Sorry but no Star, No flag and

reply to post by macman


And im telling you right now solving this problem either way is gonna shake america to the core. Its too easy to just say, screw em they are illegal. this nation was founded by people trying to escape tryanny and make a better life for themselves. The Federal government has created this problem for whatever reason. and whatever the feds come up with to solve it is gonna be ugly

I know they are breaking the law, we need to change the laws, and bring more hungry hard working people to america. I know you are military so you are hard working as it gets, but im sure you can think of a bunch of people your age that dont do #. Just FYI its not central americans i see on every street corner, giving me dirty looks when i dont give them money.

Originally posted by stevooo
We all know the Federal government could cut the amount of illegals down tremendously with a few simple policy changes.

No policy reform is needed in all actuality. If our government would only enforce their own laws, policies and procedures we could cut the number of illegals already in this country tremendously. Also, to cut down on the number entering through our southern border, why not the feds and border states work together in that the feds stay out of the states rights to enact and enforce their own laws on this issue and offer assistance when needed/asked for.

oh yea how do you tell what illegal is with out infringing on his rights.

And what rights would those be? The right to miranda, fair legal representation, and fair treatment while a guest in our judicial system.

give an easy path to citizenship to everyone who wants to be a citizen

Give an easy path to citizenship, eh? Well I did some checking into this. I found that it is not as hard as everyone seems to think, it does however take time.

1. Understand that you have three options for becoming a legal citizen of the United States: you were born in the United States; you were born to an American citizen anywhere in the world; or you go through the naturalization process.

2.Enter the country. If you were not born in the United States or born to at least one American parent, you can become a legal United States citizen if you go through the naturalization process. To begin the process, you must first come into America legally.

3. Apply for permanent resident status. Once you are granted a permanent resident card, you can remain in the United States for a total of three years if you're married to an American or five years if you are not married to an American.

4.Once you have been in the United States for the required length of time, you must fill out Form N-400, the Application for Naturalization and pay the required fee. Upon reviewing your application, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) will inform you that you need to be fingerprinted and where you should go to get fingerprinted.

5. You will be required to attend an interview with USCIS. Remember, during the interview, it is essential that you are completely honest with the interviewer, even if your answer isn't flattering to you.

6. You must take a test that illustrates how well you know U.S. history and U.S. government. In addition, you must prove that you can speak basic English unless you meet specific exemption criteria.

7. Once you have taken the civics and English tests, you will be informed whether you have passed or failed. In many instances, you may retake the tests if you have failed.

8. If you've passed the civics and English tests, you must take an oath to the United States at an official ceremony. At the ceremony, you will return your permanent resident card and be given a Certificate of Naturalization upon taking the Oath of Allegiance.

9. Congratulations! You are now an American citizen.

How to Become a US Citizen - eHow

Now because I can just hear the next arguement "But it's so expensive".... here are some numbers for you....

Filing Fee:

Most applicants for U.S. citizenship pay $595 when filing Form N-400, the application for naturalization. Exceptions include those who qualify as members or veterans of the armed forces. The government accepts only cashier's checks, money orders or personal checks. Make out your check to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services or to Department of Homeland Security. This charge is current as of December 2010.

Biometic Fee:

In addition to the basic fee, applicants under 75 years of age must pay a biometric fee, which covers the cost of fingerprinting and other expenses. This fee comes to $85 as of December 2010. Adding $85 to the filing fee, your total due comes to $680. Applicants aged 75 or more pay only the filing fee of $595.

Link to Fee Information

Now I am sure there are fees for citizenship classes but there is no set amount for that. I am assuming that those fees vary by location but lets just say for the sake of saying $1000 and that would bring the total to $1680 maybe a little higher. From what I have heard people have paid waaaayyyy more than this to be smuggled into this country by people claiming to be 'helping' them to cross illegally. Conversly I am sure that for those who cross illegally for free in the dead of night $1680 is a great sum of money, heck, I was born in this country and that is a goodly sum of money. But there are procedures in place to assist those folks as well in becoming legal citizens of the US and I have to ask, is $1680 not a decent price to insure that you can go about your business without fear and constantly looking over your shoulder to make sure INS is not hot on your heals??

I've seen and read interviews with people claiming to be illegal immigrants in this country. To the last one they claim to love this country, this new home of theirs. Really? Love of anything involves respect, in this case respect for the laws of the country you are claiming as home and that you love so much. I say show us some love and respect and we will in turn welcome you with open arms.

reply to post by MyMindIsMyOwn


great points.

I agree, if we step up enforcement of existing laws, it would help mitigate much of the immigration issue, as well as, ramping up penalties for businesses, and enhancing guest worker programs.

There is an agenda we all know about, the overrunning of our local communities with anchor babies, a can of worms to be sure (because, it is obviously an out-dated part of our constitution, but I'm sure we don't want to start down that path.). So the other option is to prevent illegals from being here in the first place.

I would feel much different if there was some serious assimilation into our culture on their part, I know they are hard working, among other things. But as mymindismyown mentioned there is little respect, how can you come here and fly the Mexican flag?

I used to be, a long time ago, sympathetic to their plight. But the constant abuses and taking advantage of our aid systems is sickening.

It's the used analogy of a boat, we are on a troubled, filled to capacity boat, and the continual flood of people is going to cause it to tip, and bring us all down into the water.

It just is obvious, I think,to anyone that we need to maintain and enforce an orderly immigration policy, and only allow the best and honest here.

So, sorry for digressing, I agree with mymindismyown, handling and fighting for strong immigration control does not mean or need to lead to tyranny and national ID card.

reply to post by MyMindIsMyOwn


as it stands now it is expensive and takes years to become a legal citizen. its impossible for many central americans to have an opportunity to come to this country legally.

reply to post by stevooo


that is the point. It should be extremely tough and expensive, you have to want it...
You have to want to come here and be apart of our culture that you'll do anything (legal, cause if it's not, we don't want you here) to get and be here.

And, as was pointed out, most spend WAY more to get here illegally, because they want a quick easy path.
What a way to start out being here, breaking the law and circumventing our rules.

[sarcasm] that's the kind of people I want here [/sarcasm]

So the other solution is to open borders wide, abolish welfare and restrict all the other public services illegals use. Am I the only one who thinks the "TPTB" solution is actualy much better for american people?

Majority of the world has national IDs, along with my country. I believe easily identifying citizens from non-citizens is one of the basic conditions of a functional state, and I consider this irrational fear of national IDs to be unfounded.

reply to post by Maslo


I understand your point, but I think the resistance to a national ID is because the U.S.A is the 'UNITED States of America' , meaning we are a group of separate entities, pooling our resources and commerce rules for mutual benefit.

It would be like a national Euro-card for every country in Europe (do they have that yet?), not a French or U.K. ID, but a Euro ID, that might be a bad example I know they are pushing hard for it, but there is same resistance there.

Many believe we don't need that (Fed ID), and it would be a major blow to individual State's rights.

I guess I am on the extreme end of "round em up and deport them".

I live in a border state. And I have been dealing with this illegal menace for a few years. I have lost a few jobs because of them and it is getting harder and harder to fend for my family.

Actually, I don't want to add any more to my response. This is something that I could go on and on over - and what will change? Nada amigos.

Originally posted by querious
reply to post by MyMindIsMyOwn

 

I would feel much different if there was some serious assimilation into our culture on their part, I know they are hard working, among other things. But as mymindismyown mentioned there is little respect, how can you come here and fly the Mexican flag?

I used to be, a long time ago, sympathetic to their plight. But the constant abuses and taking advantage of our aid systems is sickening.

It's the used analogy of a boat, we are on a troubled, filled to capacity boat, and the continual flood of people is going to cause it to tip, and bring us all down into the water.

It just is obvious, I think,to anyone that we need to maintain and enforce an orderly immigration policy, and only allow the best and honest here.

So, sorry for digressing, I agree with mymindismyown, handling and fighting for strong immigration control does not mean or need to lead to tyranny and national ID card.

the mexican flag thing sucks but it is their national heritage. back in the day they might get there ass kicked for doing that, but its free speech and it has to be protected. No one gets mad at an irish american putting up an irish flag.

As for the ones taking advantage of the system, (free emergency services, education, welfare if they have kids)
they are taking advantage of a broken system, that many people, citizen or not defraud everyday. Welfare will go bankrupt with or with out illegals.

State and federal immigration law gets enforced everyday.but there is no money in going after poor illegals without property. unless you hit the businesses. cash, room, & board are usually how illegals get paid. how would the government regulate that more than they already do?

and you are right the immigration doesnt need to be solved with a national ID card, or some kind of national ICE police force, but from what ive seen of our government they go about solving everything the wrong way.

We also need people to buy all these foreclosures to help stabilize the housing market.

Originally posted by stevooo
reply to post by MyMindIsMyOwn

 

as it stands now it is expensive and takes years to become a legal citizen. its impossible for many central americans to have an opportunity to come to this country legally.

And yet, somehow, thousands of people from many nations have been able to come to America, get signed up, wait their turn, and become citizens. Why should anyone else be any different than them? And, more to the point, why should the people that came here illegally be given anything that the ones that did it the legal and proper way didn't get? By doing that you're cheapening them and their hard work.

/TOA

You're not quite preaching to the choir here

But star n flag for effort

reply to post by Maslo


Ww already have all IDs standardised, they are issued by the states, but they have EU symbols on them now.

Well, what about state ID then? It does not matter who would issue it as long as it allows identifying citizens from illegal immigrants.

the mexican flag thing sucks but it is their national heritage. back in the day they might get there ass kicked for doing that, but its free speech and it has to be protected. No one gets mad at an irish american putting up an irish flag.

And while I would not wish any immigrant lose their culture or dilute it in any way all I am asking for is a little respect when it comes to living in this country. We are not talking about merely "putting up" a flag here. As long as it is done in the proper way, with the American flag flying above any other you choose to display as a sign of respect to the country in which you choose to reside I am cool with it. I also have no problem with keeping the culture from which you originate alive as it makes for a great learning experience (for me anyway) and adds more richness in the belief that America is the melting pot of the world. However let me ask you when the last time you saw a group of Irish Americans (from your example) all but rioting in the streets because US born students had the 'nerve' to show thier own national pride in wearing a t-shirt with an American flag on it....regardless of the day?

Students were protesting what they believed to be a show of disrespect following yesterday’s controversy in which 4 students were sent home for wearing the American flag on their t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo. (Initial reports from yesterday indicated that 5 students were sent home; but according to the Morgan Hill Times, one student returned to school the same day.) The marching students believed that the students who wore the American flag t-shirts had shown disrespect to Hispanic students by doing so on Cinco de Mayo.

San Jose Examiner - Source Article

So we see here that the Mexican students were upset that American students wore shirts with the US flag on it on a day that they claim to celebrate a date of historical Mexican significance... but what significance would that be exactly? Well, May 5th which is commonly thought of as Mexican Independance Day is in fact actually the date in which Mexico was liberated from French rule. (Sept 16th is actually Mexican Independance Day, when they threw off Spanish opressive rule to start the road to self rule). And as you can see from the article below, most folks in Mexico could really care less about Cinco de Mayo........

Today, Cinco de Mayo is celebrated widely in the United States with parties and parades. According to UCLA’s Center for the Study of Latino Health and Culture, surprisingly, the holiday was invented in modern-day California in 1863, and has continued to be celebrated in the United States, but is almost completely ignored in Mexico. Only a few states, including Puebla, recognize it.

Discovery News Sourced Article

Now, let me bring this whole thing full circle here......

Stevooo said: "the mexican flag thing sucks but it is their national heritage"

1st Sourced article states: "Students were protesting what they believed to be a show of disrespect following yesterday’s controversy in which 4 students were sent home for wearing the American flag on their t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo"

2nd Sourced article states: "the holiday was invented in modern-day California in 1863"

Catching the irony here? This is but one example and if I had more time to devote to the post I would present more. Sure, ANYONE, and I don't care where you came from, who is in this country legally has the right to have their voice heard when they feel that their rights have been, or continue to be, violated. However, do not ask for my sympathy in protecting their national heritage and free speech when their 'National Heritage' is being used as a billy club to the heads of the citizens of the country they now claim to love........ As I said before, it's all about the respect.