Mexican teens turn to kidnapping in drug war city

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


I agree. NAFTA in terms of Mexico was all about US and Canadian companies exploiting the cheap labor, and the weak environmental protections, while maintaining geographic proximity to their markets. It absolutely wasnt about Mexico benefiting. Although the leaders and upper classes have benefited a good deal, I am sure, for letting US and Canadian companies exploit their people and nation.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by JakiusFogg

 

I dont see why you have such a hard time believing the cartels and their drug war are destroying the border towns. They are.

I never said they weren't but as I said these are PARTS of the country, Noonw there ever mentions the problems going on in Veracruz, Michoacan, Or Chiapas, do they? it's always just about the US border. and that is what annoys me. However even before Calderon started this, do you think it was all sunshine and roses? those old problems have not gone away.

I lived in New Mexico for 15 years. Ive only been in Tennessee for the last year and a half or so. And over the 15 years I lived in a border state, the number of people I knew willing to drive down and spend the day, weekend, shopping, drinking, etc. has dropped so dramatically that even my friends who have family down there dont go to visit for the most part.

I am sure they don't, that would be a very silly thing to do right now. but if they really REALLY want to see Mexico and not just for a cheapo spin into Brown Town, then get on a plane and come further south.

I was raised in Hawaii, so maybe YOU cant see how a place which depends heavily on tourist dollars for its economic well being might be severely damaged by a drug war, and the kidnapping and holding for ransom of American tourists, but I sure can. Sure, the serial killings down there didnt help either, and they are likely unrelated to the cartels, but the drug cartels ARE having a serious impact on Mexico's border towns, and US border towns. And this article is about that most quintessential of border towns, Ciudad-Juarez.

I can see it clear enough. But it isn;t just the border, and it is not everywhere. I still say that blaming the cartels for everything is not the solution. If one day the cartels go away. it will still have the same social and economic problems. But this is the thing. Although it may not be so prolific the subjects raised by the OP can be found again and again all over the republic. You insistence that I don;t know what I am talking about when coming from someone that has never lived in Mexico to someone who does, claiming more knowledge on the subject is laughable.

The Mexican economy is no longer dependent on the US tourist dollar. Beside being very heavy into Petrochemicals, manufacturing and electronics. conversely and strangely enough there are lots of manufacturers setting up in northern cities. lIke Chihuahua, Monterrey, and yes even Juarez.

But also, for tourist destinations, like Cancun, Acapulco, and Puerta Vallarta. it's now the Tourist Peso, as USD is no loger accepted by business large or small. Anywhere.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Are you saying the cartels caused the drug war and the violence? From my perspective it's the drug war that caused the violence and the cartels.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I dont see why you have such a hard time believing the cartels and their drug war are destroying the border towns. They are.

While this is true that is not what the article is about. It's about middle class kids turning to crime so they could live the life.

"Something is very wrong," said Elizabeth Ochoa, a psychologist at one local detention center. "They want clothes and expensive cell phones, and all the police and all the prisons in the world are not going to stop them."

The US also shares the blame for their drug war. They are the ones calling for it.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg

I never said they weren't but as I said these are PARTS of the country, Noonw there ever mentions the problems going on in Veracruz, Michoacan, Or Chiapas, do they? it's always just about the US border. and that is what annoys me.

Again. The article isnt about Veracruz, Chiapas, etc. its about Ciudad-Juarez. And what is that? Its a border town. Remember when you were lecturing me about destroying a perfectly good thread by trying to drag it off topic with talk of border towns, border policy and drug cartels? "Some people" and all that?

Well, thats the the article in the OP is actually about. Not how great it is away from the border. Im sure parts of Mexico are just fine.

Now that we're talking about this. I have a question... What seems odd to me is that how come there are more drug lord captures than Zs? I think it's kinda funny that the media is calling more on those than the captures of Zs. My guess the Zs are like mercenaries that are "helping" catch the drug lords but they're getting out of hand.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I actually didnt make any comment at all on which came first, Americas war on drugs, or the Mexican cartels, that WOULD be a topic for another thread, and I would have to agree that American policies are largely responsible for making illegal drug smuggling across the border terribly lucrative, which in turn, probably did contribute a huge amount to the formation of said cartels.

But, you are taking "drug war" and using it just any old way you want to. Neither the article, nor I, am referring to "Americas war ON drugs." But I, and the article, are using "drug war" in the sense of violence between cartels.
And yes, the drug war between cartels is what is ruining the tourist trade in the border towns.

most of these teenagers that are involved with the cartels are thrown into it, they really have no choice, it's either you join or you die, to say that most just join for the fun of it shows how wrong you are on the whole situation...

these kids that drop out of school in mexico are poor and really don't have any choice....and not all border towns are as bad as u say that are and you need to redefine border towns as mexican border towns, people can get confused

unless you know the situation up close and u live in the area, you really don't know what is going on even if you have "lived in newmexico for 15 years" you don't live their now or do u live in mexico

reply to post by Goradd


Who are you talking to? You keep saying "you" but you didnt reply to anyone.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Goradd

 

Who are you talking to? You keep saying "you" but you didnt reply to anyone.

it's pretty obvious who i'm talking to since u said u lived in new mexico

Mexico needs to legalize gun ownership for law abiding citizens. This kind of nonsense would "fix itself" in a manner of months.

reply to post by Goradd


No, it isnt obvious who you are talking to, because you didnt mention New Mexico in your post, and you were scolding "you" about stuff I didnt ever argue in this thread.

I never once said Mexican teenagers were kidnapping just for fun, for instance. Daddybare is the one who was insisting that it was just bored kids doing it for the hell of it, and virtually everyone else in thread EXCEPT me is arguing that it has nothing to do with the cartels and the culture of violence they are creating in the border towns.

And I am using "border towns" exactly the way I intend to, because the drug wars are spilling over the border and causing problems in the US border towns too. Which is WHY Arizona has its panties in a bunch and is getting aggressive with its immigration polices, etc.

Edit to add,

And who gives a snip if I dont live there now. I lived there up until a year and a half ago, and MOST of my friends STILL live there. Whats your level of expertise, since you cant even sort out who said what in a thread.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Goradd

 

No, it isnt obvious who you are talking to, because you didnt mention New Mexico in your post, and you were scolding "you" about stuff I didnt ever argue in this thread.

I never once said Mexican teenagers were kidnapping just for fun, for instance. Daddybare is the one who was insisting that it was just bored kids doing it for the hell of it, and virtually everyone else in thread EXCEPT me is arguing that it has nothing to do with the cartels and the culture of violence they are creating in the border towns.

And I am using "border towns" exactly the way I intend to, because the drug wars are spilling over the border and causing problems in the US border towns too. Which is WHY Arizona has its panties in a bunch and is getting aggressive with it immigration polices, etc.

Go read my post again, it does say new mexio in it, show you didn't really read it, and hey you did say that teens were doing it "just for prestige and the thrill of it".

Again assuming the US border towns are in ruin and they are not, i live in a Texas border town, and everything is peaches and cream here, there isn't guns blazing and dead bodies everywhere and mind you my town in close to one of the worst places of violence in Mexico....

The thing i find funny about people like you is that you rant and rant and rant and really have no clue as to what you are talking about, instead of ranting DO something about it, stop crying and take some action

reply to post by Goradd


Dont flat out lie. You know when you edit something in it leaves a little tag saying you edited it.

Nobody here is "crying" about anything, troll. Im the only person in the thread actually discussing the subject of the thread, and Im the one getting jumped all over by people who clearly, clearly did not even read the article at all.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Goradd

 

Dont flat out lie. You know when you edit something in it leaves a little tag saying you edited it.

Nobody here is "crying" about anything, troll. Im the only person in the thread actually discussing the subject of the thread, and Im the one getting jumped all over by people who clearly, clearly did not even read the article at all.

i know i edited it but it wasn't for new mexico, i clearly know it leaves the edit sticker, i have no reason it lie and if you had noticed, it had edit long before u commented on the post, you are crying about it, especiall when you don't live in the Area, new mexico? please that is hardly a border state, again take action and stop crying

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Nobody here is "crying" about anything, troll. Im the only person in the thread actually discussing the subject of the thread, and Im the one getting jumped all over by people who clearly, clearly did not even read the article at all.

No you are not. The article is about kids turning to crime for thrills and some bling buying money. Not about porous borders.

And if you had read the article you would have noticed that Toby is an american citizen so no matter how tight you seal that border that little menace would still make it through.

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


Sounds like the U.S. is learning from China.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


OK, Yes the article may be about Juarez, that fine, the comment by the OP is about kids turning to crime to supplement they money (big time)

Of course Juarez attracts most of the attention as it has been the killing fields of this war on drugs by the Calderon Admin. but that the situation is not confined solely to the border region. nor are the cartels it is just there that 2 or 3 big ones are battling for control of a major import route to the US.

However my point was in my second post, as someone that lives in Mexico. see this type of report, placing the blame for these actions purly on the Cartel, I just can;t agree with. OK mayube the kid is being influenced by what he sees yes, and so has graduated early from pickpocketing and muggings, to Kidnap! its crazy I know. but my point is that if the old corruption and lack of infrastructure and support network is not addressed by the GOB FED. then this will not go away. So because of that we cannot limit this discussion solely to the situation in Juarez. when it does affect the entire republic.

Look at El Salvador. it was fine, before the civil war. people went to america. Formed gangs there to protect themselves, and then brought it back.

Although things are no where near as bad as Juarez where I live it doesn't mean it does not exist though. hence the reason I stated I had concerns for my nephew. he is a prime candidate.

but in short I just feel the label Cartels just masks other issues which are largely being ignored. A shame as it is a beautiful country, with lovely people. its a shame they are being taken advantage of.

Still there could be a "mexican autumn"