Men and Child support. What is the answer?

Originally posted by CaDreamer
23 pages and still civil...isn't that a record? lol great debate folks thank you for putting in your 2 cents and thank you for sharing you personal pains and life. Your voice matters your life matters. i would give multiple stars to many of you for your input. Awareness is the only way to fight ignorance.
You honor me.

Indeed. Maybe there is some hope yet. My thread went for 20+ pages before the trolls started with their juvenile antics...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think some answers were provided like : living wages, both for men and women, stop outsourcing jobs, less government involvement. These are all mentioned in the thread...and most importantly, Welfare kept AS A TEMPORARY program, without going too far off track, also stopping anybody not in the country legally from getting "assistance" for their US born children...they don't need it and never paid anything towards it, and oh I think there was also mention of job training/equal education and getting the country to start becoming a technological industrial nation, to actually have jobs for people since most manufacturing has moved overseas. There is a lot of good answers here in the thread. Also the 50/50 would be very optimal, it makes the woman be responsible too, so that means that she would HAVE to work as well, and assistance given would be temporary. These are all very good answers IMO.

Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

Oh, we all are a little bit jaded. People make poor choices all the time and we tell lies, mostly to ourselves, every day. Gotta learn how not to beat our selves up, that's the trick. If life were easy, it'd sure be boring, huh?

edit on 2-6-2011 by queenofsheba because: spelling...always important

ya but not too long ago, that mindset got you killed or eaten.


along with your lineage.

Lucky for me I've not been killed, eaten or lost my lineage...big sigh of relief.

Originally posted by BogusHype
This, on some level, makes me glad that I cannot get a girlfriend let alone have babies for me. I guess I should be glad about the whole affair knowing that I will only be taxed by the government and not a loving family on top of it.
$ $ $ $ $

Ya know. Growing up I knew quite a few kids who came from relatively happy traditional families. But among my peers today, I can't think of one single guy that is happily married, in a traditional family, caring for only his own kids and the only wife he has ever had.

Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by BogusHype
This, on some level, makes me glad that I cannot get a girlfriend let alone have babies for me. I guess I should be glad about the whole affair knowing that I will only be taxed by the government and not a loving family on top of it.
$ $ $ $ $

Ya know. Growing up I knew quite a few kids who came from relatively happy traditional families. But among my peers today, I can't think of one single guy that is happily married, in a traditional family, caring for only his own kids and the only wife he has ever had.

Unfortunately I seen a documentary that stated that it is not in man's nature (Human beings) to be monogomous, however for like thousands of years we were, and we see it in other parts of the animal kingdom, so what to think of that. Is that truth or is it lies(propaganda)?

reply to post by ldyserenity


I think THAT is propaganda. I am monogamous. People put too much stock in sex these days.

If you are in love with someone you marry them. If you truly love them, you stay until you fall in love with that person again.

reply to post by bluemirage5


She should have thought with her head instead of her vagina.... It goes both ways. If she didn't have kids, she would still have to pay rent and utilities. So I just don't agree at all. It's people that think like this the second of my top five reasons I won't be having a kid....

Originally posted by boondock-saint
I also do not think it should be the father's
financial responsibility to house the ex-wife's
new boyfriend who moves into the house
with them and eats the same food she buys
for the kids from the child support money
you send her.

That's not right !!!

You could be my hero as you have said some of what I might say if it didn't require me to say a lot more that I am basically never going to put in writing. Reality Comes and there is no escaping karma.

the most equitable situation I can see, and it would only happen if both mom and dad got along well enough to cooperate, would be to allow the kids to "own" their living space....ya know, the nice big house with enough bedrooms in it for all. and well, let mom and dad spend half their time living with the kids and taking custody with them...the other half they can live in the crap efficiency apt.....
ya know, no more shifting the kids back and forth, they didn't do anything to deserve to be treated as the homeless surf that gets shifted from one relative to the next....it's the parents that screwed up, they should be the ones having their lives disrupted on a regular basis!!
and well, this might be enough to get both parents to understand how their ex really doesn't have it so easy....

and well, they both pay half the cost of the whole setup, both work their arses earning the money, both work their arses off taking care of the kids, and well, hopefully get along well enough to make it work for the kids!!!
and hopefully our society will soon come to the realization that just because a person is a women, doesn't mean that she has a man supporting her and so it's justifiable to pay her 20% less than the men doing the same danged job!!!

I know this might sound pretty extreme but I think this particular war of the sexes involving divorce and child support is being fed and stroked for many more reasons rather than just feeding the government coffers.

The rot set in in the early 70s.
Divorces became no fault situations and the divorce rate skyrocketed.
Even now, the figures show more women apply for divorces than men.
Wonder why? Because it's a goldmine for them?
Because back in the old days, women were socially and economically disadvantaged by Divorce and therefore stayed in marriages for a very long time. Funny that.

So the whole power base shifted from men to women, thanks to feminism and the womens movement.
Now this system is being abused by women (not all but a lot) and the tables are going to turn very very soon.
We are pushing our men further and further to the brink without realising where all this is heading.
It's being done purposefully and insiduously by the court systems and TPTB with an endgame already etched out.

What do we see lurking around the corner and is often commented about here right on this site?
Sharia Law.
Sharia Law is the mens equivalent to the feminists movement of the 60s for women.
It's radical, it's mean, it's brutal and is black and white with no room for exceptions.
In Sharia Law, the children are the legal property of the FATHER not the MOTHER in divorces.
(And us women shouldn't get on our high horses about children being termed property. Women treat children like their own personal property as has been proven by just the testimonials in this thread alone.)
Automatic full custody is no different than "property". Just different wording. So lets not delude ourselves here with symantics.

So if enough men are screwed over, suicided, homeless and out on the streets with no hope for a better future because they are financially stiffed then I can see a LOT of men who are desperate enough embrasing this for the child custody and divorce laws alone.

Think about this angle and think about it very carefully.
If women don't wake up too soon it is going to be TOO LATE.
Sharia Law is very slowly creeeping into places it wasn't even heard of before.
Kind of reminds me of the 70s and the womens movement and all the undesireables who were running it.

This is my explanation of the total craziness of the situation is.

As for the quesiton .....what is the answer?
TPTB are working on getting everyone familiar with Sharia Law, so guys, I think this will be the only answer and solution your going to get to this whole child support and divorce debacle.
Take it or leave it. That's going to be the choice you're going to have to make.

This might sound totally crazy to a lot of you right now, but I'll bump this thread again in about 3 years time if we are all still here and see how this theory has progressed along.

As a father who paid child supporrt on two kids for over ten years, i understand what you are talking about. You make all kinds of sacrifices to keep them fed clothed and insured,a nd in my case i had to move several hundred miles away to take a job that would allow me to keep two households going. As a result i almost never got to see my kids during that time. My advice to any guys out there thinking about marraige is this, if you plan to get married, and plan to have kids, think long and hard about it. Fifty percent of all marriages fail within 5 years, and the man invaraibly gets the short end of the stick in the divorce proceedings. You will never get to see enough of your kids, you will do your best to take care of them but your spouse will demonize you for shortcomings you cannot help as the result of the financial strain(google parental alienation syndrome) it is a long rogh road and it never ends even after the support does. Because when the support does end you will find youself middle aged, with few savings, and adult kids still need a lifeline thrown to them from time to time. Especially in these times. It has made me very bitter about marriage and having children, it ruined my life on many levels and also my kids lives were severely impacted. Becuase some wives seem to be under the impression that kids can do fine without a father in the picture when in fact, they cant. My spouse basically wanted kids but didnt want a husband, so i was jettisoned, forced into a situation where i had to take care of my kids and try to live myself,

and we al suffered because my wife wanted to make a lifestyle change. So at the very least, be very, very
careful who you marry. And if you do, try to have a prenuptual with provisions for the children. In the event you
divorce. I hate to cast fatherhood in this light but men ned to be aware of this happening to them and be ready for it.Good luck to you all.

reply to post by CaDreamer


You have so much integrity. This system is set up to penalize everyone, its living hell basically the way its run. Despite that you honor children with your attitude, but it shouldn't be this hard on anyone.

I have a solution, but it takes everyone seeing a better world, understanding they can't participate in corruption, slave camps, slavery, banks, they need to be free. Eco villages, and giving and taking, like the linux software, a people's version of the Venus project, all prospered, but you'd be spending more time helping out with the kids then.

The solution for you might very well be getting off the treadmill. Reburbishing a fifth wheel, deliberately downsizing and getting back to nature, focus'ing on developing skills and survival skills, woodworking, metal working, perhaps developing a non profit, to teach your children the value of learning skills as well, and even having time to teach them when they come to visit.

Because it sounds like you need to reshift and focus on being there to help them learn skills and to follow their dreams rather than just this.

And of course, I did forget all about the US medical system which is deplorable.

reply to post by CaDreamer


Going for 50% custody will relieve your problems greatly as support payments will be reduced to almost nothing due to you actually supporting your children first hand. Fathers should always seek that but mostly their happy to leave the children with the mother and pay so they can be "free".

Well your not living with the child so you might as well pay. If you cant pay, get the child 50% of the time.

It's not about the money, its about your responsibilities. If you fail to live up to the responsibility then you pay for someone else to deal with it.

Mothers usually dont get a choice BTW, they usually are stuck in their position. Try talking to some mothers who have had it hard and you might not be so depressed about your situation, cause it can be worse.

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by BogusHype
This, on some level, makes me glad that I cannot get a girlfriend let alone have babies for me. I guess I should be glad about the whole affair knowing that I will only be taxed by the government and not a loving family on top of it.
$ $ $ $ $

Ya know. Growing up I knew quite a few kids who came from relatively happy traditional families. But among my peers today, I can't think of one single guy that is happily married, in a traditional family, caring for only his own kids and the only wife he has ever had.

Unfortunately I seen a documentary that stated that it is not in man's nature (Human beings) to be monogomous, however for like thousands of years we were, and we see it in other parts of the animal kingdom, so what to think of that. Is that truth or is it lies(propaganda)?

It's an excuse for men to not have their honour due to "nature". We are rational beings, not animals.

I must be one of the few men who have custody of his child. His mother and I both make less than 15k a year so money wasn't an issue; it was her inability to raise a child because she was incompetant and my case proved that. I have a stable relationship, a home where there are two income earners. I found the decision fair and the mother, reluctantly agreed as well.

As to montly payments; she owes me 25 dollars every month, which i never see ....I'm quite happy i never fufilled my college ambitions, being underclassed has it advantages.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by Suspiria

 

I feel you Suspiria as there are males who take it as an excuse to bail out . Me tho I see the tomfoolery and pay it either way and keep it moving. It bothers me to see how its spent but I see how you feel 45 and hasbro is a done deal lol. Be well

edit on 6/1/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)

Well like I said I've never been interested in taking his money but the option was there for him to actually provide in other ways so he could see exactly where his money was going. Sadly on the few occasions he actually took that offer up he only used it as an excuse to try and get me back i.e (I only give a damn about the kids if I have you, if I can't have you then I'm not spending money). Quite sick really. Caused both myself and the children alot of stress.
He stole my son's housekey, let himself into my house (a home we never shared) and sabotaged the plumbing, flooding the house & almost bringing the whole landing ceiling down and also bragged about staging a burglary and making it out to be local smackheads.(No I don't have any of his possessions, he took mine even underwear.) I was stalked, which wasn't particularly hard since for over a year I barely left the house other than to do the weekly shop & he paid knuckle dragger's to scrawl lovely things like nonce and peado on my new partners shop window - as you can imagine, we decided it was best to close so he didn't have a such a target for outright abuse. The police were about as useful as a chocolate teapot though.
Thankfully he's been quiet since Christmas, but I always expect his antics to start up again. The odd thing is it was HIM that had the affairs behind my back.

Anyway back to the topic at hand. Although I've been accused of being some quasi feminist lol, I feel it's important that father's do provide, doesn't have to be great wads of cash if nothing else just provide your children with a little bit of sanity, act like a responsible parent even if you can't rub two pennies together. Hell when you get faced with the winter's heating bill that $8 dollar pack of nappies helps alittle and if you can manage to smile as you hand them over instead of gritting teeth that make's it a whole lot nicer for everyone concerned, moreso the kids.

reply to post by navy_vet_stg3


The answer is that in the child support system, if you're a man-bend over and take it. If you're a woman you are immune to this law.I too know many men who have never seen a penny of child support from deadbeat mothers. Some of them have shown me papers stating their childs mother owes ten of thousand of dollars.One in particular owes $120,000.00. And the court does nothing. But if a man gets a month or two behind they send the goons for them. Justice is neither blind nor equal.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Annee

 

Non-custodial parents are not realistic when it comes to child support.

This is the list of which non-custodial parents should pay half of in child support to the custodial parent:

1. Rent

2. Utilities (electricity, gas, water, phone)

3. Food

4. Clothing *basic

5. Transport

6. Dental checks @ twice a year including extras if needed

7. Medical/therapy (when needed)

8. Education (school fees, uniforms, stationary, extras)

9. Sports/extra activities

10. Tutoring *optional

any other costs relating to the said child beyond the above list then becomes optional for the non-custodial parent.

Now why is that so difficult? Now as a custodial parent, I'd be more than happy to cough up receipts for the above list to my ex..........getting paid is a whole different ball game though!

So basically your looking for a free ride?

MOTF!

reply to post by CaDreamer


I don't know what state you live in and I really feel sorry for you and all fathers who pay thousands a month and get to see their kids every other weekend. Here in CO, it's pretty 50/50. Which is great for dads. My ex husband and I both make the same. We share our son 50/50. So... that means no child support for him! He does pay the health insurance and he covers medical expenses. But other than that, we both do our part.
I am so thankful for that. Both of us can raise our son without living in poverty because one of us has to pay the other an insane amount of money. Yes, kids are expensive. But I don't think a working woman needs $1500 a month in child support from an ex. I don't know what I would do with all that money.

Oh wait. I would probably spend it on myself....

Hang in there. Go in for revisions. You are not able to live a good quality of life. Modify the parenting time so you have them more. You have options.