New Vietnam Veteran Anti-Kerry Ad

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Don writes:

Whatever happened to the idea of Viet Nam veterans hanging together and supporting each other?

That's a real good question, Don. When you and John Kerry come up with a good answer, why don't you post it here.

You have just as much an obligation to answer the question as Kerry or I do. In fact, you have more of an obligation, because you are calling Kerry a traitor and an enemy of the country, and telling me I am not a real Marine.

But this is a far cry from what John Kerry did upon his return. Read my links, Don. Everything Kerry did is a matter of record.

I have read your links and studied the matter extensively. I gather you don't have a problem with his engaging in anti-war protests. I do not approve of his visits to North Viet Nam, but I certainly don't think his visit was treasonous or disloyal. As I understand it, when Kerry testified before the Senate, he was merely repeating the testimony of other war veterans at the Winter Soldier investigation. I really don't have a problem with his reporting what other veterans said.

If you can condone these activities or if you engaged in these activities, then I think it is you who owes an explanation to the rest of us.

I don't condone any of his anti-war activities. I specifically stated that I did not approve of his visits to North Viet Nam. My own participation in the anti-war movement was much more modest than Kerry's. I was never a member of Viet Nam Veterans Against the War, or any other anti-war group. I marched in a few anti-war marches in Tucson, Arizona. That was about it. I don't owe any explanation to you or anyone else.

Take a powder, Don. Ultimately, we all have to live with our own actions.

Ahhhhh, you Bush supporters make me sick to my stomach.

You seem to breeze over the facts here.

No matter how shady people claim Kerry's service was in Vietnam, no question can be made THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY IN VIETNAM, IN A FRIGGIN WARZONE.

WHERE WAS DUBYA? DUBYA WAS SUCH A PUNK HE WENT AWOL FROM THE ANG, WHICH HAS TO BE THE MOST EASY LAID BACK SHAM DUTY IN THE FORCES. AND HE WENT AWOL FROM THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bush never picked up a gun or actually made it into combat, kerry volunteered.

So whether Kerry kicked it with the VC, shot himself in the foot, or bumped his head, the fact he was in Vietnam outweighs any claim that pathetic drooling imbecile of a chimp we currently called president may make.

For your information, Im not a Kerry supporter. But I am a vet. And I hate Bush. i shall not vote for Kerry. But noether shall i sit here and listen to a bunch of brainless republicans smear Kerrys REAL war service, when thier own almighty chimp couldnt handle one weekend a month of napping on a plane in Alabama.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

WHERE WAS DUBYA? DUBYA WAS SUCH A PUNK HE WENT AWOL FROM THE ANG, WHICH HAS TO BE THE MOST EASY LAID BACK SHAM DUTY IN THE FORCES. AND HE WENT AWOL FROM THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen up, Sweetcakes! Say what you will about GW, but the Air National Guard is no "SHAM' outfit. At any given time the Air National Guard posseses the most well trained and experienced pilots on the face of the globe, including the US Air Force. And there is no evidence that Bush went AWOL. Had he done so, he would have been prosecuted.

GW has stood up to America's enemies as no other president has in my lifetime and I've been here for more than half a century.

Get a grip, there's no need to yell here.

[edit on 04/8/6 by GradyPhilpott]

GradyPhilpott says

And there is no evidence that Bush went AWOL. Had he done so, he would have been prosecuted.

Why don't you tell another whopper, Grady? There is conclusive evidence that Bush was both AWOL and a Deserter.

HOW BUSH FAILED TO FULFILL HIS DUTY

After you read that, I have many more links for you. If you put as much energy into investigating Bush's military record as you have into investigating Kerry's military record, you would come to the inescapable conclusion that BUSH WAS AWOL AND A DESERTER.

The fact that he was not prosecuted for these crimes does not mean that he did not commit them.

Don, have been treated for PTSD? You know, they have some wonderful meds for that condition now--benzodiazepines, SSRIs, tetracyclics, etc.

Originally posted by donguillermo
The fact that he was not prosecuted for these crimes does not mean that he did not commit them.

Now would you apply that comment to Hillary Clinton , Bill , Ted , and Kerry??

Or does that not apply to them?? I just want to know because libs are notorious for using double standards..

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Don, have been treated for PTSD? You know, they have some wonderful meds for that condition now--benzodiazepines, SSRIs, tetracyclics, etc.

Brilliant retort, Grady. The link I provided has scanned images of Bush's service records. The author is probably the world's leading expert on the obscure codes and abbreviations used in military records at the time Bush served. Since you groove so much on obscure military codes and abbreviations, you should really check out the link I provided. If you do, I guarantee you that you will realize that Bush was AWOL and a deserter.

Originally posted by TrueLies

Originally posted by donguillermo
The fact that he was not prosecuted for these crimes does not mean that he did not commit them.

Now would you apply that comment to Hillary Clinton , Bill , Ted , and Kerry??

Or does that not apply to them?? I just want to know because libs are notorious for using double standards..

If you are referring to Whitewater, that story was the most extensively investigated in history. No evidence of wrongdoing by the Clintons was found. I believe Ted Kennedy pleaded guilty to something in regard to Chappaquiddick. Perhaps someone could refresh my memory. I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to Kerry. What evidence is there that he ever committed a crime?

There is extensive evidence that Bush was AWOL and a deserter. The poster I was responding to was dismissing such charges because he had not been prosecuted for them. In order for there to be any double standard, you would have to show that there is extensive evidence that Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and John Kerry have committed crimes, yet have not been prosecuted for them. Clinton admitted his wrongdoing in the Lewinsky affair, as part of a plea bargain. He received punishment as part of the plea bargain, including losing his law license for five years.

The real double standard is that the people who attack Kerry for his highly decorated military service also support Bush, whose service records clearly show that he was AWOL and a deserter. That is a REAL double standard.

Bush Releases Military Records; Obligations Met!

I don't need to wade through that alphabet soup of terms I'm unfamiliar with. As far as I'm concerned Bush's military obligation was met because he was credited with his service and honorably discharged. As in the case of Kerry's Purple Hearts, we can second guess those who did the authorizing, but the awards remain.

As I have said numerous times before and you can search out my myriad posts on this matter, as far as I'm concerned Kerry's service in Vietnam was honorable, because that's what his service record reflects. The same holds true with Bush, as far as I'm concerned.

My beef with Kerry is his treason. My attitude toward Bush has to do with his actions as President during some of the darkest days in our history. When it comes to leadership, I'll take Bush on any day. If Kerry appeals to you, then go ahead and throw your vote away.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Bush Releases Military Records; Obligations Met!

You are too funny! You are going to offer Newmax, a right-wing propaganda machine, as a news source??? Yes, Bush released what the White House claimed were his complete military records. The White House only released what they wanted to be made public. The Associated Press is currently suing for the release of Bush's military records. If he has already released them, why is AP suing?

I don't need to wade through that alphabet soup of terms I'm unfamiliar with. As far as I'm concerned Bush's military obligation was met because he was credited with his service and honorably discharged.

Yes you do need to wade through that alphabet soup of terms. You won't do it, because you know you will finally have to face the truth that Bush was AWOL and a deserter. Surely you must know that it is possible to actually be convicted of military crimes and still receive an honorable discharge. Bush committed the crimes of AWOL and desertion, he just wasn't prosecuted. After not seeing Bush for a year, Bush's Houston commanders blandly noted that they could not evaluate Bush because he had not been observed during the past year.

My beef with Kerry is his treason.

I have provided you with a link to a compelling legal argument that Kerry's actions do not constitute treason. You have not rebutted my argument in any way. You just continue reiterating your misinformed opinion that Kerry committed treason.

My attitude toward Bush has to do with his actions as President during some of the darkest days in our history.

I agree. The Iraq War represents the darkest days in our history. Abu Ghraib, anyone? George Bush has shown himself to be an arrogant, incompetent military leader. He didn't get the job done in Afghanistan, and he certainly hasn't gotten the job done in Iraq. How you can support such a bumbling, incompetent fool is beyond me.

Dong, I don't think you can pull the wool over the eyes of people at ats no matter how hard you try... There's just too much there and your trying to discredit their arguments with bunk.

Everybody knows:



EDIT: Image Removed, bypassing censors etc.




[edit on 6-8-2004 by Kano]

DON-

Personaly I have not served in the US military, I did not exist for VN and managed to land myself right in the middle growing up with a good deal of peace if not in a time of tension.

I hold the greatest respect for those who did serve adn thank you for what you did. As I do for all of those who have severed.

I must say that I hold the greatest respect for those who served and still managed to hold onto their humanity. As you have deminstrated in your posts, you have held onto just that.

Though I have not been in combat as youhave I have studied the martial arts for 16+ years. Studying not only form, but philosophy of conflict. I have found that in modern military there are two mindsets of warrior.
The warrior who gives his heart and the warrior who gives his mind.

The one who gives his heart, fights for what he believes when he is needed and takes the experiance form it and allows himself to grow and learn. This man will forever be loyal because he feels what he does is right, he fights with passion, and most importantly he fights with wisdom.

The second fights because he is told to, he fights for what he is told with no reguard for right or wrong. He learns nothing other than what is fed to him and will fight fiercly against anything that goes against what he is told to believe. He will be loyal to what he is told and is blind becasue fact and fiction have no meaning.

Unfortunatly, the latter is the more common.

My point? Be content in the life you lead, and rest knowing that you are willing to open your eyes and find truth for yourself. You have nothing to prove to the blind.


Now, to the other Marine, if I remember correclty you posted earlier that you adhear to the ideal of "either with me, or aganst me." so if I disagree with you then I am an enemy, if that is so.. then I declar it openly that I am your enemy. I am the enemy of anyone who is favor of close minded ideals, I am an enemy of anyone who follows blindly without having the balls to make a choise of their own, I am an enemy of anyone who promots the Big Brother mentality of Orwells '1984'. I will think for myself, I will take the time to learn the facts from as many sources as I can find, and I will take the time to debate those facts to find the truth.
I will believe that 2 + 2 = 4



On a lighter note.. why is it that noone seems willing to discuss Bush's arrest record? DWI, Drunken Disorderly, and the third was assault at a football game.

Wraith

Originally posted by donguillermo
I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to Kerry. What evidence is there that he ever committed a crime?

Just his own confession broadcasting across the nation on him participating in war crimes, detailed accounts of the actions he took...
Not to mention if it were back in the day he would of been charged with treason, visiting north vietnam and sympathizing with the enemy??

I'm just curious because I thought if this was a normal person they would of been pretty fudged...

Originally posted by TrueLies
Dong, I don't think you can pull the wool over the eyes of people at ats no matter how hard you try... There's just too much there and your trying to discredit their arguments with bunk.

Everybody knows:


**Image Removed**

No, actually I am discrediting their bunk with arguments. Don't you think the bumper sticker you are displaying is against forum rules?



EDITED by Kano to remove image, if you knew it was against forum rules why did you quote and keep the image in your own post?

[edit on 6-8-2004 by Kano]

Originally posted by TrueLies

Originally posted by donguillermo
I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to Kerry. What evidence is there that he ever committed a crime?

Just his own confession broadcasting across the nation on him participating in war crimes, detailed accounts of the actions he took...

In his Senate testimony, Kerry recounted the testimony of other veterans at the Winter Soldier investigation. Kerry has also admitted to taking part in such questionable activities as free fire zones and search and destroy missions. I don't believe he has ever admitted to committing war crimes and atrocities of a specific nature. Someone correct me with specific quotes if I am wrong.

Not to mention if it were back in the day he would of been charged with treason, visiting north vietnam and sympathizing with the enemy??

Not to mention that when it was back in the day, Kerry was not charged with treason. Kerry did not commit treason in visiting North Viet Nam. For details, please see my post in the following thread.

Kerry Makes Claims US Soldiers Cut Off Heads.....video this thread.

Originally posted by donguillermo
[You are too funny! You are going to offer Newmax, a right-wing propaganda machine, as a news source???

Okay, here's another analysis..

Now, to the other Marine, if I remember correclty you posted earlier that you adhear to the ideal of "either with me, or aganst me." so if I disagree with you then I am an enemy, if that is so.. then I declar it openly that I am your enemy. I am the enemy of anyone who is favor of close minded ideals, I am an enemy of anyone who follows blindly without having the balls to make a cho Iise of their own, I am an enemy of anyone who promots the Big Brother mentality of Orwells '1984'.

You don't know me, Wraith, so if I were you I would exercise a little caution when you start with your personality profiles. And you can dispense with the discussion of my gonads. I make my choices based upon my knowledge and experience and I know when its time to time to quit whining and get with the program. No one thinks for me, but me. The jig is up Wraith and as far as I'm concerned anyone who is not with this nation's efforts to rid the world of the scum who oppose us then you are the enemy.

And spare me your phony, dimestore "wisdom"

[edit on 04/8/6 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Okay, here's another analysis..

I actually remember that article, even though it was four years ago. The magazine went bankrupt before a retraction could be printed, but a good debunking of it is HERE. It is a site run by democrats, but it has the references there for anyone to look up.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

The jig is up Wraith and as far as I'm concerned anyone who is not with this nation's efforts to rid the world of the scum who oppose us then you are the enemy. [edit on 04/8/6 by GradyPhilpott]

This is one of the steps to becoming a fascist people...

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

# Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Any citizen who dares to question the motives of going to this war is freely targeted as unpatriotic or worse, a traitor

1-. Exuberant nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic images, slogans and symbols - National flags are seen everywhere in public display. Territorial aggression is explained to be mere destiny -- an unbidden greatness thrust upon the nation by history.

It is this burden of unique responsibility that now raises the fascist state above all previous constraint, no longer bound by international obligations, treaties or law.

2. 2. Enemies Identified

This national cause is identified as unity against enemies - The people are rallied around a unifying patriotism directed against some common threat: communists, liberals, a racial, ethnic or religious minority, intellectuals, homosexuals, terrorists, etc.

The state's message is sometimes couched in an easily recognized religious theme. Amazingly, this language is used even when the full context of the teaching shows the meaning to be diametrically opposed. Any dissent is "siding with the enemy", and therefor treasonous.


Please see the 12 steps, i'm afraid you've fallen victim.

www.mvp-seattle.org...

This thread has some info for you as well all I can do is reach out to you...

www.abovetopsecret.com...