Non believers, I have a simple non offensive question

reply to post by NOTurTypical

He....(Constantine)......only....legalized.....it....(Christianity).

I'll rephrase, do you think the Roman Emperors choice contributed to it's spead? Or do you think it was because it was "God's will."

Yeah, you're right Madness, you convinced me.

Gooooooooooo Darwin!!!!

*drinksKool-Aidgulpgulp*

Just because we accept the Andromeda Gallaxy is on a collision with our own, doesn't mean we like it. Just because we understand that death is part of life, doesn't mean that (all) of us like it.

Kool-aid? That's for cults that gather together and form extraordinary claims about reality and what is beyond our realm. Rituals and self-sacrifice. Cool. isn't it?

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I notice you believe in the Andromeda galaxy collision. I am sure that there is plenty of evidence to supoort this belief. The irony of it all though is that in the end, your belief is a non religious version of the judgement day in the Bible. Both your scientifically based belief and our religious based ones agree that eventually this world will end.

Something to think about for people in both camps really - science and religion can and do agree quite a lot.

reply to post by markosity1973

I notice you believe in the Andromeda galaxy collision. I am sure that there is plenty of evidence to supoort this belief.

Well it can be seen in the nightsky and the doppler shift indictates it's moving towards us at an alarming rate, rather than away from us.

If the collision doesn't occur. Our star WILL boil our oceans, life WILL become unsupportable, this is undeniable.

The irony of it all though is that in the end, your belief is a non religious version of the judgement day in the Bible.

No, it really isn't. My belief isn't conjecture, isn't blind speculation. My belief doesn't state that people will be judged upon the destruction of life on Earth.

Although i realise our destruction, i don't welcome it. Many religions welcome the apocolypse as by their beliefs, it has to be the "will of God", and we all know how they love the leader at all costs. And that we will all be saved in some magical afterlife; where all the believers get to immerse in ecstasy for eternity.

I guess the best thing to do, would be to get off ours knees, stop praying, and start thinking about an escape from our innevitable demise.

science and religion can and do agree quite a lot.

Religion has always been stating the end is coming, even before we knew of Gallaxies, and the life and death of stars.

"The end is coming, so convert now, what have you got to lose!? submit, submit!"

Most non-believers don't welcome the destruction of their own species.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Get off our knees and rush about trying to escape our inescapable demise, is what the whole of humanity has always done. You are going to die. This is the inescapable demise we are programmed to believe. This belief (whether it is true or not) is what drives humanity. Drives humanity mad, crazy mad. What if it is a lie?
The fear of annilation whether it is an apocolyse, old age is caused by life, happens within life.
Life is the waiting room for death, lol.
That is if you believe in the story of death.

What is it that is going to die?
Find out what is alive?

The fear of annilation whether it is an apocolyse, old age is caused by life, happens within life.

Some don't fear it. Death is a inevitable part of life. That applies to stars too, many stars had to "die" in order to form our Sun.

What if it is a lie?

"what if it's all a dream?"

"what if it's all a lie"

"What if we exist in a computer simulator?"

Anyone can play the hypothetical game.

I don't know, what if? whats your point?

I wouldn't assert that life goes on after death without having information to support my "truth", or my hypothesis. Certainly the brain allows for a perceptual senses in the 3d realm, if that is depleted i imagine it to be as if it were 5 years before you were born; can you remember what that felt like?

I'm existentialist with an open-mind.

Get off our knees and rush about trying to escape our inescapable demise, is what the whole of humanity has always done.

No, it's not. Not every human.

I'm talking about getting off our knees and doing something practical to help, like build a telescope, find a cure for disease, promote chairity and love without being forced by a God (i.e. the words of religious fascists)

Not proclaim "the end is nye, submit to jesus" or "submit to Islam", not tell people they should convert or be judged by a big brother. Not to go out a Bomb people for the hope of a "Holy" reward.

This is what i'm talking about. It still goes on to this day. These people don't fear death, because they believe they will be rewarded, well we don't know that. It's just speculation. And someone has to stop it, before more people get blown up, or more planes get flown into buildings.

Some think they are saving people by preaching their nonsense, but they're just scaring people and causing division.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


All people fear annilation. The ones who do not are the ones who know annilation is not possible. The only thing that can be annilated is a image that is not real anyway. What the image appears on/within will never go. Images appear and disappear continually, this person i think i am is no more than an appearance, an image.
What this image along with all the 'other' images appears within is what i am.

Trying to save the world is no more than trying to save yourself.
The self though does not need saving.
It is eternal.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

All people fear annilation.

Have you met all people?

The ones who do not are the ones who know annilation is not possible.

These must be the people with more knowledge than the rest of us. Would scientists ever claim to know the unknown? I don't think so, why should we exuse faith in an afterlife as special type of "knowledge".

Faith doesn't change, it's absolute, science invites new theories, science will change if evidence shows it. Faith will try to scurry around the evidence, or find a new argument to infer God.

en.wikipedia.org...

They don't THINK, They don't BELIEVE annilation is possible. But what you THINK, and what you BELIEVE can always be very different to the actual truth. They don't know any more than any other member of the human race.

The only thing that can be annilated is a image that is not real anyway. What the image appears on/within will never go. Images appear and disappear continually, this person i think i am is no more than an appearance, an image.
What this image along with all the 'other' images appears within is what i am.

Trying to save the world is no more than trying to save yourself.
The self though does not need saving.
It is eternal.

Very vague and meaningless.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


When our consciousness is small it makes a lot of things vague and meaningless.
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Hmmm, this thread is not for us to judge one another on our beliefs or perceived views about one anothers' level of consciousness.

No matter who we are or what we believe there are a few denominators that we all share: The need for love, the inevitability of death and the uncertainty of our own future.

It is those common threads that should unite us, whether we be thesits, atheists, anti-theists and everything in between.

reply to post by markosity1973

No matter who we are or what we believe there are a few denominators that we all share: The need for love, the inevitability of death and the uncertainty of our own future.

If only we could ALL unite on those similarlities:-

Maybe ask Palastinian to just that with an Israeli?

Maybe ask a Protestant to unite with a Catholic?

Maybe ask a Diabundi Muslim what they think of Jews?

I think there are some fundamental "issues" we need to sort out before we can unite.

I'm definetly with that idea though!

reply to post by markosity1973


I am sorry if you perceive my post as a judgment. Did you take a look at the video?

"The need for love, the inevitability of death and the uncertainty of our own future", are the things that are believed to be true. These beliefs are what make people suffer. If you study the meaning of consciousness then this suffering can be significantly reduced and assumed beliefs will be seen for what they are, assumed.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

"The need for love, the inevitability of death and the uncertainty of our own future"

That's an idea that doesn't require supernatural belief.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by markosity1973

 

I am sorry if you perceive my post as a judgment. Did you take a look at the video?

I did not personally take it as judgement, but I felt that it was maybe a little too sharply pointed at non believers. I have come to realise through talking to some of them that a big part of the divide between believers and non believers is that we are all guilty (myself included) of assuming that we are just right and they are wrong. It tends to come across in our language even if not intentionally

"The need for love, the inevitability of death and the uncertainty of our own future", are the things that are believed to be true. These beliefs are what make people suffer. If you study the meaning of consciousness then this suffering can be significantly reduced and assumed beliefs will be seen for what they are, assumed.

I get what you mean and this is part of why I believe and why I am motivated to try and transcend the boundaries between believers and non believers. I too understand the concept that nothing in this life really matters at all beyond love and service to our fellow mankind - any expectations we have usually only lead to disappointment.

I guess the big thing I am trying to do here is show non believers that Christian folk can be decent caring and non judgmental humans without going on and on and on about the bible endlessly.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

If only we could ALL unite on those similarlities:-

Maybe ask Palastinian to just that with an Israeli?

Maybe ask a Protestant to unite with a Catholic?

Maybe ask a Diabundi Muslim what they think of Jews?

I think there are some fundamental "issues" we need to sort out before we can unite.

I'm definetly with that idea though! :up

I don't think I could have summed that up better myself - well done

I must admit that it pains me terribly that our beloved belief systems can cause so much pain and suffering to people who do not subscribe to those same beliefs. Speaking to people like yourself helps expand my mind and make me understand that we need to accept the concept that we as humans are as diverse as nature itself. This means that we desperately need to learn and accept that there is no absolute wrong belief and there is no absolute right one.

We are all entitled to our personal beliefs (or lack of) and we accept the consequences of following them (or not), but we have no right to judge others or treat them any worse because they may not share the same beliefs as us.

reply to post by markosity1973

I must admit that it pains me terribly that our beloved belief systems can cause so much pain and suffering to people who do not subscribe to those same beliefs

Because the hatred is written into dogma. The ease at which prejudice can be formed is multiplied when you put "faith" in a tyrannical, merciless, capricious supernatural dictator....Whether you belief in his existence or not.

Organised religion is at fault, personal belief in the unknown doesn't require ancient books, it doesn't require priests claiming their superiority to the "sinners" or the "ungodly".

Speaking to people like yourself helps expand my mind and make me understand that we need to accept the concept that we as humans are as diverse as nature itself.

Thanks, that really does mean a lot to me. And i couldn't agree more; We are a construct of nature, and this shouldn't dehumanise us in anyway. We evolved in harmony with nature, Surely we can establish a harmony between ourselves for the greater good and/or for the sake of love?

That's all i've ever been about, it's not about belittling people's beliefs, it's not about trying to enforce your own beliefs onto others, it's not about condecending users or personal attacks. But if you have critique, you should be allowed to voice it.

This means that we desperately need to learn and accept that there is no absolute wrong belief and there is no absolute right one.

Once more, i agree; even if Christianity IS ultimately true, and non-believers DO go to hell, i'd rather not take THEIR word for it. (if you see where i'm coming from). They seem to have as much information as us non-believers, Many fail to see how they reached their conclusions; although many of us still await evidence.

We are all entitled to our personal beliefs (or lack of) and we accept the consequences of following them (or not), but we have no right to judge others or treat them any worse because they may not share the same beliefs as us.

That's what i love about the American Constitution (despite living in England); The "WALL" of separation between church and state; which has a great benefits. There is religious diversity, you can express your belief in any way you wish; but religions are restricted from making their God the ruler of the state/country.

I think most can agree that's a step in the right direction; when we look to Theocratic countries like Iran where women are still being oppressed by the authority of the QuRan, by the years of tradition based on the QuRan; women are still not allowed in law courts and you WILL be killed in many states for apostasy (leaving the religious faith)

Peace,

A&A

reply to post by markosity1973


Thank you for your reply. I also am trying to show another way of looking at the world. I do not need to defend Christians as i do not class myself as a Christian. Christ is not the surname of Jesus, Christ is Christ consciousness. Buddha was also spreading the message of consciousness.
That is why i posted the link, to show how it is all about consciousness, to bring awareness.
I have great respect for the message of Jesus and Buddha (consciousness) but i don't see any need to join a particular group. All religions at their core are pointing to the same thing, the truth. Advaita Vedanta is the original. Non-duality, not two.
We are all one.
One God.

I do not believe that non-believer go to hell after they die. However, i know that if God is known, life will stop being hell. God is life and has nothing to do with death. When God is known death is no longer feared.

Namaste.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

When God is known death is no longer feared.

I know, right?

Those suicide bombers certainly don't fear their death as they praise Allah and hit the switch, killing children in the process.

What's the point in trying to escape our demise? What's the point in trying to prevent the destruction or extinction of our species?

Let's not fear death because people like you know the "truth". This being will save us. Like he saved all the other animals that became extinct on Earth, they're all waiting for us, right?

reply to post by awake_and_aware


What did that post achieve?
Did it make you feel better?
What is your intention when writing posts like that?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Because that is how Militant Islamists reason their matyrdom or jihad, a fight for Allah, is a righteous cause, in terms of the QuRan, they believe they will be saved, and rewarded for their deeds, and despite the QuRan's contradictions it exclusively allows for concepts of martyrdom and jihad. I'll reference that no problem if you'd like.

lack of fear for death because of a belief in an almighty savior.

I'm against that idea, as it causes evident harm, there's no reason why blowing up children should be rewarded even if they are "Kufirs".

What did my post achieve?

are you suggesting this is to fulfil my own ego?

What does any post achieve? I'm offering my perspective in why i think a belief in God, and a lack of fear in death can cause harm, and can be easily used to condone atrocities if you believe you are being divinely warranted from God.

Have you read the religious manifestoes of these militant groups? Have you seen who they are blowing up?

I'm sorry i'm compassionate about my fellow human beings, silence certainly doesn't achieve anything.