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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
Every religious christian post seems to presuppose that we are born with certain black marks against us called "sins"; how is that supposed to happen? How is a newborn baby a sinner who will go to hell if it dies a moment or two before some idiot can splash water on it and mumble a few mis-pronounced latin phrases?
Every religious christian post seems to presuppose that we are born with certain black marks against us called "sins"; how is that supposed to happen? How is a newborn baby a sinner who will go to hell if it dies a moment or two before some idiot can splash water on it and mumble a few mis-pronounced latin phrases?
Originally posted by booyakasha
Well Christians believe in original sin. Which is sin you somehow aquire through adam and eve eating the forbidden fruit. Complete bs.
Where that I think that idea came from is the ancient pagan religions. They called the Sun, gods sun, because nobody owns the sun. They knew the sun gives us life and without it we would not be able to live. Which is why they say the Sun gives its life for us.
Now you have to realize that Jesus is a personification of the Sun. Jesus didn't actually exist. So now they say Jesus is the Son of God who gave his life for us. Which eventually turned into Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins. It' all a very symbolic story about the movement of planets and stars throughout the sky
Originally posted by booyakasha
reply to post by Akragon
the belief of an afterlife was around long before Jesus was ever invented. The resurrection and the virgin birth were both around long before Jesus as well. The theory of Reincarnation was around long before Jesus too.
I think Christianity and Jesus were created as a compilation of many ancient religions in an attempt by Julius Caesar to unite the people of the world under one common religion.
Originally posted by Akragon
Originally posted by booyakasha
reply to post by Akragon
the belief of an afterlife was around long before Jesus was ever invented. The resurrection and the virgin birth were both around long before Jesus as well. The theory of Reincarnation was around long before Jesus too.
I think Christianity and Jesus were created as a compilation of many ancient religions in an attempt by Julius Caesar to unite the people of the world under one common religion.
Though this may be true, the fact is the bible is the worlds most widely distributed book. The fact that those ideas pre-exist the bible is not the point.
And although many religions were created to assert control over the populous at the time, the message that can be found in the bible is truth.
Follow a religion and you'll probably miss that truth... Find it for yourself and you can easily see why religion is not for everyone. It does bring many people closer to God in some cases, but its also spiritually crippling for others.
Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
Every religious christian post seems to presuppose that we are born with certain black marks against us called "sins"; how is that supposed to happen? How is a newborn baby a sinner who will go to hell if it dies a moment or two before some idiot can splash water on it and mumble a few mis-pronounced latin phrases?
Constantine deified Jesus. He declared that Jesus was the Son of God.
a shame the bible people read today is so heavily edited though.
A BRIEF HISTORY OF MODERN TRANSLATIONS:
"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit: but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." —Matt. 7:17-18
Note the roots of corruption:
I. Justin Martyr (100 A.D.)
A. He was born a pagan, and died in the robes of a pagan priest.
B. He was the first to mix Gnosticism with Christianity. Gnosticism was a heretical doctrine which taught that Christ was created by God the Father. Funk and Wagnall's Standard Dictionary defines Gnosticism as "A philosophical and religious system (first to sixth century) teaching that knowledge rather than faith was the key to salvation." Many scholars today place their knowledge above faith in God's word.
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" —Rom. 10:17
C. Historian Dr. Benjamin G. Wilkinson wrote, "In the teachings of Justin Martyr, we begin to see how muddy the stream of pure Christian doctrine was running among the heretical seats fifty years after the death of the apostle John."
("Which Bible?". ed. Dr. David 0. Fuller, Grand Rapids International Pub., Grand Rapids, Mica., 49501, p. 191)
II. Tatian (150 A.D.)
A. He was a disciple of Justin Martyr.
B. Like Martyr, he also embraced Gnosticism.
C. Tatian wrote a harmony of the gospels using the Christian Scriptures and the Gnostic gospels, thus omitting Scripture (such as John 8:1-11; and Mark 16.9-20).
D. His. "Harmony of the Gospels" was so corrupt that the Bishop of Syria threw out 200 copies.
III. Clement of Alexandria (200 A.D.)
A. Clement was a disciple of Tatian (Remember Luke 6:40-"The disciple is not above his master: but everyone that is perfect shall be as his master.")
B. Clement taught that there was no real heaven or hell, no blood atonement of Christ, and no infallible Bible.
C. He used the Gnostic Scriptures to teach his students.
D. He founded the school of Theology in Alexandria Egypt.
IV. Origen (184-254 A.D.)
A. Origen was a disciple of Clement of Alexandria.
B. He held to the same doctrine as Clement, plus he taught baptism was necessary for babies to gain salvation.
C. Origen stated, "The Scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written." (Ibid. p. 192).
D. Dr. Wilkinson stated, "When we come to Origen, we speak the name of him who did the most of all to create and give direction to the forces of apostasy down through the centuries." (Ibid.).
E. Origen was one of the first textual critics. His textual work in both the N.T. and the O.T. (the "Hexapla") was the basis for two of the most corrupt manuscripts used by the Roman Catholic Church. (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus).
F. Origen developed a method of Biblical interpretation which is called "allegorization". Origen believed the Bible was only a set of stories that illustrate truth, but not literal facts. He believed Christ to be created and subordinate to the Father (the same as Jehovah's Witnesses), the pre-existence of the soul before birth (the same as the Mormons), and the final restoration of all spirits (Universal Salvation). (see Dr. Earle Cairns "Christianity Through The Centuries", Zondervan Publishing House, p. 122).
V. Eusebius (260-340 A.D.)
A. He was trained at Origen's school in Alexandria.
B. Eusebius was the editor of two Greek manuscripts (mss.) named Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. These two mss. were discredited and abandoned by early Christians as being corrupt. ("Which Bible?" p. 139,143).
These are Roman Catholic mss. and were not used by Protestant Christians until 1881. These two mss. are the basis for Roman Catholic Bibles and every major English translation of the Bible since 1901. These mss. were not the ones used for the King James Bible.
C. Eusebius was Roman Catholic in his doctrine (see his book, "Ecclesiastical History", Vols. 1-5).
D. He was commissioned by Emperor Constantine to make 50 copies of Scripture for the Roman church. Eusebius copied the Gnostic Scriptures and Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.
VI. Jerome (340-420 A.D.)
A. Like Eusebius, Jerome was Roman Catholic in doctrine.
B. Jerome translated the Greek mss. of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus into Latin (called Jerome's Latin Vulgate). This was the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church.
C. The ms. Vaticanus was placed in the Vatican library, while the ms. Sinaiticus was abandoned in a Catholic monastery, and they were not used for the next 1,500 years.
VII. Tischendorf (1869)
A. He was the first Protestant to find and use the mss. of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.
B. Tischendorf was a liberal theologian.
VIII. Westcott and Hort (1881)
A. They used Vaticanus and Sinaiticus to produce a new Greek N.T.. This Greek N.T. is not the same as the one used for the KJB nor during the Reformation.
B. Their Greek N.T. was the basis for the Revised Version (RV) of 1881 and the basic Greek text for all modern translations such as the RSV, TEV, NASV, N.TV, etc.
C. The Greek text of Westcott and Hort (W & H) differs from the Greek text of the King James Bible (the Received Text) 5,788 times, or 10% of the text. (For examples, see the section "A Brief Comparison of Bible translations".)
D. Since all modern translations are based on the work of W & H, it would do us well to know the theology of these two men.
WESTCOTT: "I wish I could see to what forgotten truth Mariolatry (Mary-worship) bears witness."
"No one now, I suppose, holds that the first three chapters of Genesis, for example, give a literal history I could never understand how anyone reading them with open eyes could think they did."
HORT: "Mary-worship and Jesus-worship have very much in common."
"Protestantism is only parenthetical and temporary."
"The pure Romish view (Catholic) seems to be nearer, and more likely to lead to the truth than the Evangelical."
"Evangelicals seem to me perverted rather than untrue."
These men did not hold to sound doctrine; instead they have turned, "...away their ears from the truth, and she be turned unto fables." —2 Tim. 4:4
NOTE: Where the KJB and the Catholic Bible (such as the New American Bible) differ, the NIV and the NASV agree with the Catholic Bible. The Bible says, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: —2 Corinthians 2:17a. The prophet Amos wrote, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord." —Amos 8:11
Originally posted by Avyuir
reply to post by mydarkpassenger
The sins we will commit in our lifetimes? Sort of like, paying for something before you can have it.