i have secretly become a believer in Jesus as Christ

Actually, the trinity is found in Kabbalah. You can look this up for yourself. The trinity represents the three natures of God to man.

In the beginning (TIME), God created the Heavens (SPACE) and the Earth (MATTER).

Light is what we find in Genesis. Wave (Word/LOGOS) is what we find in John 1. Light is both a particle and wave. This is the duality of light. All particles in quantum physics have an associated wave (22 letters of the Hebrew AlephBet). Essentially, God places his fingerprint on both the OT and NT with the duality of light. The Old Testament is the particle (LAW). The New Testament is the wave that carries the message (message of love). The holy spirit represents NOUS (Consciousness). This is the consciousness that God gives to man through creation. The whole of nature, TIME / SPACE / MATTER, represents God's word to man. This life is a story that God tells. Instead of merely telling us the story, God places us a characters in the story. We are the witnesses to the story that God is telling.

Pride is telling your self that you are the judge. Anyone who places himself in the position of God as judges is not loving his neighbor. The point of the story is to eliminate the flaming sword form the tree of life. The sword is bias against your brother. Remove the sword and the tree of life (10 Sefirot) opens to you mind. This is the day of rest and Salvation for the soul. Peace / Good News / Eternal Rest

Originally posted by DoubleLL
reply to post by steven704

 

Jesus is not my G-d. Jesus cannot be G-d. There is no Trinity in the Torah. I would gladly die for my faith in "HaShem" then worship a pagan influence idol. Glad to see Christians acting as Jews to convert Jews.

reply to post by Schkeptick

Christianity is NOT belief in Jesus. It is belief in Paul.

You're lying, Paul doesn't save us, Jesus's substitutionary atonement does. He's the one we put our faith and trust in for justification. Paul was a sinner and couldn't even save HIMSELF so how could he save all of us?

reply to post by Schkeptick


[[ ' I was raised my whole life as a Christian. When I prayed earnestly for understanding and opened my Bible to Matthew chapter 1, studying it all my own for the very first time.... ' ]]


sir.. you cannot be Christian your ' whole ' life and never once read a certain chapter in the New Testament.

you are either 1 of 2 things..
you're either completely lying about your ' faith '
or you never had faith.

I assure you.. if you ever were actually a believer in Christ, the miracles that are bestowed upon you would ' certainly ' hold your faith intact.
THAT I can certainly promise you.

Christianity is one message only. The rest of the bible is commentary on this message:

Grace is unmerited favor to you from God. The law will not save you. Love will.

Luke 10

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Schkeptick

 

Christianity is NOT belief in Jesus. It is belief in Paul.

You're lying, Paul doesn't save us, Jesus's substitutionary atonement does. He's the one we put our faith and trust in for justification. Paul was a sinner and couldn't even save HIMSELF so how could he save all of us?

reply to post by steven704


Shalom Steven!

Haha! I liked reading your beautiful "disclosure"! Not so secret now though, lol!

Dear Jesus is Israel's most successful export 4 sure!!! Now HE's comin' home, big time!

God Bless, all The LORD's Words come to pass. HE told Abraham all those years ago that the world would be blessed through Abraham and that Abraham and Israel's descendants would indeed be as numberless as the very stars. Through The Kingdom this has been/ is being done before our very eyes.

Onwards to the Kingdom comin' to earth. No man knows the hour but as every other Word spoken by the Prophets and Saints, this will surely happen, too. Peace be with us and good will to all men and women.

You are thinking in temporal terms. Time is not in relationship to God. The work of God is the story that He has already told. We live in the temporal story and see this as the story God tells. God wrote the story, beginning to end. We experience the story at a point within the story. Most likely many points within the story.

John 3 reveals this. The baptism in the water is your birth from the root of the umbilical cord. The seed was planted in the womb. The root is broken and you are then birthed into the womb of the earth. You grow, decay and then emerge from your cocoon. If you are not born again into the spirit, you are baptized again into the water. Birth in the spirit comes by developing the spirit on the other side of the tree of life. When it bears fruit, you are then released from the baptism in the water. Your body is 90% water.

Read John 3.

HEBREW PARABLE from my Blog

Two twin brothers are in a womb, basking in the warm and nourishing environment of their caretaker. Life is progressing, but a sinking feeling comes over the twins as they realize that they are both dropping down somewhere new. They each start to wonder what the future holds. One twin senses that a new reality, better than the first, is about to be given as a gift. The other twin—the skeptic—refuses to believe in anything past the womb and tries to convince his brother that he is delusional.

The first twin says, “After we leave this world, a new reality will emerge; a reality that we never could have imagined; a reality more glorious than any we have known. We will have improved vision and there will be an infinite variety of new objects to delight the eyes. We will each stand on our two legs and be able to walk here and there with ease.”

The skeptical brother doubted this view. He says, “You are not making any sense. This is foolishness. What you see here is all there is. Get over it. We have no proof of this foolish belief. We will live here and die. That’s all; nothing more.”

Suddenly, and without warning, the fluid surrounding the two twins begins to rush away. The womb violently moves about in an unfamiliar way. The first brother disappears from sight as he vanishes into a blinding light. As he ponders the fate of his beloved bother, all he can hear is crying and wailing from outside the womb.

He says to himself, “As I predicted; a horrible death filled with pain.”

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Jesus said that you must only love your God and love your neighbor for salvation.

No, Jesus said those were the most important commandments. And those are the only commandments Jesus gave. We are "saved", (I don't like that word because the Bible speaks of salvation is 3 different tenses), by Jesus becoming sin for us, the father laid the sins of the world on His Son, and Jesus died for us, in our place.

The short version of the gospel, or "good news", of Jesus Christ is in 1 Corinthians chapter 15:


"Jesus died according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again after three days according to the scriptures."


Jesus left nothing for us to do to be "justified" before God, other than to trust Him. "It is finished!"

The best way I've found to explain how 3 can be one is any three-dimensional object: it takes height, width, and length to make one "thing". The three dimensions are not identical; in fact they are mutually exclusive. Yet they are all of one substance, and if any one dimension were taken away the "thing" would not exist. And you can rotate the "thing" and thereby make the dimensions trade names, because the names derive from the perspective of the observer. But still there are always three dimensions and they are distinct and mutually exclusive.

This is how I understand God as a Trinity. I see this teaching in both Testaments of the Bible. In the OT, there is this:

Listen to me, Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last. My own hand laid the foundations of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together. Come together, all of you, and listen: Which of the idols has foretold these things? The LORD's chosen ally will carry out his purpose against Babylon; his arm will be against the Babylonians. I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him. I will bring him, and he will succeed in his mission. Come near me and listen to this: From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret; at the time it happens, I am there. And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me, endowed with his Spirit. (Isaiah 48:12-16)

People can always explain away anything, but I understand this as the "I", the person speaking here, as God, yet this God has been sent out by the Sovereign LORD. So there are at least two in the OT called God, which means that the concept of plurality in unity is not foreign to the OT. We could also cite the Shema from Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Some claim that the Hebrew word for "one" that is used here, 'echad, actually means a compound unity, while others, especially traditional Jews, often argue their case as if the word meant an absolute unity (from www.foundationsmin.org...). But whatever the word means, it is the same as the word used to describe the "one flesh" in Genesis in ref. to marriage.

And just as the "one flesh" does not mean the man and woman are mere manifestations of one person or "roles" that one person plays, so also the entities of the Trinity are not one "person" playing three roles but three "minds" unified by one spirit. This oneness of spirit is, I believe, a single will or purpose; this is the "oneness" of God made of Three.

Of course no one can say anything for sure or prove beyond doubt their personal opinion of the nature of God; this is God after all, and not to be fully grasped by the minds of his creatures. So what I offer here is only my opinion and perspective, the way in which I have resolved all that scripture tells me about God. I could say more about whether Paul contradicts Jesus or whether Jesus fulfilled Messianic prophecies, but right now I just wanted to add my views on the Trinity to the discussion.

reply to post by DoubleLL

Well Jesus is the Christian Messiah. Not the Jewish Messiah. He never fulfilled one prophecy to be the Messiah!

Sure he did. See Below

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/47d267f14e45.jpg[/atsimg]

Daniel chapter 9. "70 prophetic weeks"

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8685b9cdfd36.jpg[/atsimg]


Now as for the Trinity, this was never taught in the Torah, because it actually doesn't exist. This was conjured up at "The Council on Nicea" which is a conspiracy itself. This is one of the top conspiracies of the ages in case you don't know, see #20.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9b0f2be1d8b1.gif[/atsimg]

So the Jews get it half right. and the Christians get it half right.
But the truth is Jesus is the first created being, which makes him the first born son of God, not God himself.
They are two separate distinct entities.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


In your NWT Bible version who is speaking in Revelation 22:12-13?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation. We have an angelic messenger, Jesus Christ, and Almighty God. Read the whole chapter.

In case some people are wondering what we are talking about I will quote the scripture.
Revelation 22: 12-16 Darby Bible Translation

12 Behold, I come quickly, and my reward with me, to render to every one as his work shall be. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city. 15 Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loves and makes a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify these things to you in the assemblies. I am the root and offspring of David, the bright and morning star.

This quotation appears among others that are ascribed to an angel and to Jesus Christ. Before these words are quoted in the book of Revelation, the angel who was instrumental in presenting the revelation to the apostle John spoke. (Rev. 22:8, 9) Then, after the quotation that begins with Revelation 22:12 and ends with the words of verse 15, we find the statement: “I, Jesus, sent my angel.” (Rev. 22:16) Since the context does not necessitate our attributing the words of Revelation 22:12, 13 either to the angel or to Jesus, they could have originated with another speaker. Consistent with the rest of the book of Revelation, “the Alpha and the Omega” must be the Almighty God.

That being said it is an easy scripture to get confused over, but context is the key here.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Okay, I surely agree with you, Revelation 22:12-13 is Almighty God speaking. "The Alpha and Omega" is a title for God Almighty.

Sorry, this is confusing. Next question is who is speaking in Revelation 1:8 in your NWT Bible? Who is "The First and the Last"? We already know the Alpha and Omega is God Almighty from Rev. 22:12-13.

So, who is speaking in Rev. 1:8??

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Revelation 1:8 King James Version

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

This is Almighty God

While many commentators apply this title both to God and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Almighty God. The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8) Thus what Revelation 1:8 what says - Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God. In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here"

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

This is Almighty God

We agree yet again! It's Almighty God speaking, okay we agree that "The Alpha and Omega" is Almighty God right? And now we agree that "The First and the Last" is Almighty God, correct? I have another question just to be 100% sure...

Who is speaking in Revelation 21:6??

reply to post by SaberTruth



This is a fine contribution to this thread. surely this wisdom was given by GOD Himself being the Master of mathematics. im not surprised, and i thank you =]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Blue jay, as much as I no doubt am grateful for your contribution.. you do continue to lean on your own understanding concerning The Holy Family.

Micah 5:2
" But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity. "


Isaiah 45:23-24
" I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame. "

"Let USmake man in OUR image":

Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

This is Almighty God

We agree yet again! It's Almighty God speaking, okay we agree that "The Alpha and Omega" is Almighty God right? And now we agree that "The First and the Last" is Almighty God, correct? I have another question just to be 100% sure...

Who is speaking in Revelation 21:6??

And He said to me, " It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the waters of life freely to him who thirsts.. "

reply to post by steven704

The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.

That's right he wasn't talking to himself, "our" equals at least two.

Anyway this isn't a thread about the trinity, it's about Jesus being the Christ and the Messiah which we all seem to agree on, his exact nature when on earth is being debated for sure. But Christians don't debate that Jesus Christ fulfilled the messianic prophecies of the old testament or Torah. If you do, you can't be a christian as this is fundamental to the entire foundation of christian faith.

reply to post by steven704


Tanx! :-D All wisdom comes from God, and he is always glorified when we pass it along.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Anyway this isn't a thread about the trinity, it's about Jesus being the Christ and the Messiah which we all seem to agree on, his exact nature when on earth is being debated for sure.

Now hold on, you made it about the Trinity and bitterly insulted most of Christiandom, for the past 2,000 years when you stated this:

Now as for the Trinity, this was never taught in the Torah, because it actually doesn't exist. This was conjured up at "The Council on Nicea" which is a conspiracy itself.

The Nicean Council didn't "conjure" up anything, they settled an attempted heresy to DENY the deity of Jesus Christ that had began to heat up from Alexandria, Egypt. Peter, Paul, John, and Jesus's own half-brothers James and Jude all taught Jesus was not just a man, but God Almighty in the flesh and blood. God Almighty who entered humanity to die in place of His children. And every apostolic father, especially Polycarp and Clement of Rome wrote or preached the Jesus was God in the flesh.

Then you claimed this as a further insult:

But the truth is Jesus is the first created being, which makes him the first born son of God, not God himself.

And you have publicly stated for the record now that:

A: "I am the Alpha and Omega" is spoken by God Almighty
B: "I am the First and the Last" is spoken by God Almighty
C: In Revelation 22:12-13 Almighty God is identified as "The Alpha and Omega".

So I ask you two questions:

1. If Almighty God identifies Himself as "The Alpha and Omega" in Revelation 22:12-13 why does "The Alpha and Omega" identify Himself as "Jesus" 3 verses later in Revelation 22:16???

2. My second question is since "The Alpha and Omega" and "The First and the Last" is designations you say for 'God Almighty', when was it in Biblical history does Almighty God DIE? (See below)

17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 1:17-18

Why does Jesus use the term for Almighty God in two places in Revelation to speak for Himself? "The Alpha and Omega" in Revelation 22:16, and "The First and the Last" in Revelation 1:17?

If you believe that Revelation 1:17 in not spoken by Jesus, but instead Almighty God, can you explain when and where Almighty God " died?