Has anyone seen the moon.

reply to post by blah2200


Someone put your nose out of joint sir. I thought ATS is a forum where people can put up threads and recieve feedback on some of todays issues, or questions they might have. Im clearly asking for feedback on an issue thats been confusing me. If you have nothing positive to say, say nothing. I was not declaring the moon had dissapered. I am not declaring the end of the world. I am asking a genuine question and asking for feedback from persons more knowledgable than my self.

reply to post by Dinoman


Based on your "scathing" reply on the top of Page #2....you just don't get it. Actually, many who have responded so far apparently missed this vital piece of information, from your OP!!!:

..... Im going by my android google sky application. Well today its a clear sky, beautifull sunshine and my google sky application tells me it should be to the right of the sun if im facing south. Again I dont see it.

I'll wait a bit, for that to sink in again......anyone catch it? Here, I'll repeat, and focus:

....its a clear sky, beautifull sunshine.....

....wait for it....

AND:

...application tells me it should be to the right of the sun....

Really?

You think that you are able (only under certain circumstances, times and angles) you can sometimes see the Moon in daylight, that you should be able to see it ALL THE TIME in daylight???

reply to post by weedwhacker


Thanks, thats all I wanted. And yes I did believe I should still be able to see it even in daylight as I have many times before.

reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters


I gave you a star just for the fluffy kittens line!

reply to post by Dinoman

Very large earthquakes every single day, Not to mention all the volcanos either going off or starting to play up. All the bird and fish kills recently, new reports every single day. And then all the flooding just in April alone. I used to be naive when I was about five...

What planet are you on? Large earthquakes every day? That's just not true. There are big earthquakes just as there have been as long as people have been keeping records.
There are many volcanoes on Earth. Nothing unusual there.
Floods? Floods happen all of the time. Look at Bangladesh. That place knows a lot about floods.

I have to laugh when you claim there is some sort of effect.

reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters

scientists wonder if the galaxies supermassive black holes denser gravitational grip in this region will have any significant effect on our planet / solar system ....

Gravity is not a directed force. It is no stronger in the galactic plane than anywhere else. What matters is the distance between masses and that is hardly different.

it always results in catastrophe

Why are you imagining some sort of catastrophe? Is it because you misunderstand the galactic plane and think that this imaginary plane is somehow something other than an artificial plane in space?

i suspect there would be more than a few freak storms, and earthquakes increasing in number over years

The Moon does not appear to have any effect other than being correlated with some rare types of low intensity Earthquakes.

and one night, the moon isnt where our trusty gadget says it should be

Actually one night someone made a mistake in their thinking and started a thread on a forum to publicly announce their mistake.

reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters

scientists wonder if the galaxies supermassive black holes denser gravitational grip in this region will have any significant effect on our planet / solar system ....

Gravity is not a directed force. It is no stronger in the galactic plane than anywhere else. What matters is the distance between masses and that is hardly different.

it always results in catastrophe

Why are you imagining some sort of catastrophe? Is it because you misunderstand the galactic plane and think that this imaginary plane is somehow something other than an artificial plane in space?

i suspect there would be more than a few freak storms, and earthquakes increasing in number over years

The Moon does not appear to have any effect other than being correlated with some rare types of low intensity Earthquakes.

and one night, the moon isnt where our trusty gadget says it should be

Actually one night someone made a mistake in their thinking and started a thread on a forum to publicly announce their mistake.

Can I just point out that the Moon is still here.

If it had wandered off we would be in serious #!

We aren't, so it hasn't.

END OF THREAD!

I sold the moon to a little grey fella in a flying saucer !
What your all actually seeing is Project Bluebeam !
The reason sometimes it's not there or is in the wrong place is cos
ive knocked the projector sideways a bit
or completely forgotton to switch it on when i'm p1szed !
'hic'!!!

reply to post by Dinoman


"In the daytime" is not a regular occurrence, for Moon-gazing.

I have never seen the cell-phone App for this....but, if you get a copy of Stellarium (free to download, and use) on you home computer PC, or Mac desktop of laptop.....then you will definitely have an accurate reference. Use it to determine your phone's depictions.


With Stellarium you can adjust the "atmosphere" effects....so, when on "Earth", looking up, you can "remove" the atmosphere, to see what the sky would look like if the Earth were airless. Add the air back, and only those things that would be visible normally, to you on the surface, will show up....depending on where the Sun is, what angle of inclination over the horizon that is...and the direction you are looking, relative to the Sun's location.

That all matters....when it's the Sun, being so bright and all......


Stellarium also lets you "stand" on other planets and moons (bet your phone can't do that) so you can see the phases of Earth, from our Moon. You can go to Mercury, Venus, Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (and Deimos and Phobos, orbiting Mars. And, some asteroids....Ceres and Junos?).

You can also travel into the past, and future.....many days, years or centuries/millennia (I don't know its limits).

I went to stand at the Apollo 11 landing site the other day, on July 20, 1969....just to see where the Earth was in the Lunar sky. (It was almost due West, and up at about a 59 degree angle over the Moon's horizon).

Hm, the moons been bright and obvious in my night sky.

...What I am wondering is...where is the "man in the moon"...why could I see him so easily then just one day hes gone?...

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters

 

"scientists wonder if the galaxies supermassive black holes denser gravitational grip in this region will have any significant effect on our planet / solar system .... "

Gravity is not a directed force. It is no stronger in the galactic plane than anywhere else. What matters is the distance between masses and that is hardly different.

"it always results in catastrophe"

Why are you imagining some sort of catastrophe? Is it because you misunderstand the galactic plane and think that this imaginary plane is somehow something other than an artificial plane in space?

I guess i just made the age old mistake of showing interest in something i read somewhere ... but what i read instead, in your post has shown me the err of my ways, and completely outweighed any other peoples opinions i have read before ... well those couple of lines of wisdom have cleared that up for me ... i can go get some sleep now ..

Thanks for clearing that up for me ..

night all

This may get removed for being slightly off topic .. apologies .. May as well leave it tho .. the threads pretty dead anyway

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters

 

Gravity is not a directed force. It is no stronger in the galactic plane than anywhere else. What matters is the distance between masses and that is hardly different.

I understand what you're saying here .. and agree .. when it comes to ordinary stars and likes ... But can you say with absolute certainty that the same law applies to black holes .. more so the supermassive one at the centre of the galaxy ?

The reason i ask is .. say a black hole comes across say a star ... well .. my understanding of what mainstream science accepts is, when it devours it .. it draws matter from the star, in through the edge of its disc .. using gravity no doubt ... not that ive seen it myself .. but the special effects crews show it like that .. and i assume science sees it like that ...

IF ... If it is gravity that is 'sucking' the stars matter from it .. then why would it only suck down from the edge of the disc .. and not, say, directly above the black hole ...

Quasars, which I believe to be supermassive black holes spotted in other galaxies, emit the gas they draw in from their 'disc', through their north and south poles (for lack of a better term), for thousands .. millions of light years .. further indicating, a black holes gravity doesnt quite have the same dynamics as what were used to .. with say a star .. where its gravity would attract matter almost equally from all angles ...

Scientists admit today, that beyond the event horizon where time appears to stop and no light escapes (due to its gravitational pull along the elliptic), that they don't have a clue what goes on as the laws of physics break down ...
But so long as you can keep me right with the gravitational dynamics of the supermassive black hole in the centre of our galaxy (bearing in mind, Einstein refused to even beleive in them, because the mathematics or a 'regaular' black hole were too crazy for him to accept as real)

Are you still so absolutely certain gravity cannot be a directed force .. ?

Surely the fact it has an eliptic plane at all suggests its gravity doesnt have the same dynamics were used to ...
And that majority of the galaxy sits in alignment with this eliptic plane .. would also suggest to me, a supermassive black holes magnetic pull on its galaxy, as it swirls, would be a 'directed force' ... which results in its spiral shape.

If it wasnt, then a galaxy would likely take on a more spherical shape i imagine ...
There are galaxies that are spherical shaped .. smaller ones i beleive .. i wouldnt be surprised if they lacked a super massive black hole .. further backing what im saying ...
that a supermassive black holes gravity (which i also beleive is actually being pulled/ swirled round with the black hole itself so the gravity itself is forced to suck in matter down a disc / eliptic ), is what is responsible for the typical spiral galaxy shape.

The exception to this would seem to be our solar system, and some others, which are bobbing up and down through the eliptic.. but no less, still being held to the eliptic ... by gravity i guess ..
Recent suggestions by some scientists are that we were part of a mini galaxy that has just collided with the milky way .. hence the bobbing up and down as we are still settling into our 'new home' ... sounds far out .. but certainly explains why we are bobbing up and down through the eliptic, and the rest of the galaxy doesnt seem to be ..


PS - im very tired now .. please excuse any gibberish, or typos i missed

reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters


This "disc" effect is caused by the black hole's rotation (specifically, the centripetal force produced by its rotation), not any directional element to its gravity.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters

 

This "disc" effect is caused by the black hole's rotation (specifically, the centripetal force produced by its rotation), not any directional element to its gravity.

Indeed .. and now my head is starting to hurt ... So, a black hole attracts matter absolutely 'equally' from all directions .. and as matter approaches the black hole .. the force of the rotation outweighs the gravity .. and so the centripetal (i must google that) force takes over and sucks the matter 'down the disc'

Still cant help feel it is responsible for the galaxies shape, and keeping the stars / solar systems, swirling round the 'imaginary plane' theyre on ... i hear about dark matter being the agent that keeps galaxies and stars in place ... but i just dont buy it yet .. something that cant even be proven yet ... when we have a massive super black hole sitting right in the middle .. siwrling around .. no doubt in teh exact same motion as the galaxy is swirling

I will have to sleep on this .. and read up some more on the physics of black holes and gravity i think .. its extremely interesting ..

But .. i still feel no one can truly know what will happen when we pass through this 'imaginary plane' .... and i am soo tired ...

Thanks CLPrime

Nite all

reply to post by WhatAreSpinkters


As CLPrime has stated you need to consider rotation.

And that majority of the galaxy sits in alignment with this eliptic plane .. would also suggest to me, a supermassive black holes magnetic pull on its galaxy, as it swirls, would be a 'directed force' ... which results in its spiral shape.

Magnetic forces do not shape galaxies. The issue is gravity.

further backing what im saying ...

Not at all you need to read CLPrime's post and think about it.

The exception to this would seem to be our solar system, and some others, which are bobbing up and down through the eliptic.. but no less, still being held to the eliptic ... by gravity i guess

The bobbing up and down you mention is a motion controlled by gravity.

Gravity is a force that acts between objects with mass. The direction of the force is towards the other mass. The Earth pulls at you and you pull at the Earth. The motion of an object is dependent on the position and velocity and the forces acting on the object.

What happened to Newton was not the discovery of gravity, but rather the notion that the forces seen on Earth applied to the Moon and beyond. The Moon is falling towards the Earth, but the Moon also has a position and velocity. The combination of the position, velocity and the force acting on it is to cause the Moon to take a path we describe as an orbit.

Consider the Moon. You might think this is a simple issue, but it actually is interesting. The Moon is not moving in a curved path we call an orbit because that is what things do. What really happens is that the force we call gravity appears to be simple, yet makes the path of the Moon an elegant path. Then there are all sorts of interesting subtle issues. The Earth is not perfectly rigid. There are interactions that cause the Moon to move away from the Earth. It's slow of course. In exchange the Earth slows its rotation. A similar thing is happening with the Sun and the Earth is moving away form the Sun.

you know... the moon does have phases. look up a chart. there is also things called "shadows" the earth creates on it.

Originally posted by stereologist
Magnetic forces do not shape galaxies. The issue is gravity.

Yeah .. I was thinking gravity when i wrote magnetic .. had to correct an identical error earlier .. tooo tired ... but yeah .. im definitely talking about gravity .. not magnetism

yeah .. Im understanding the rotation thing i think .. in a similar sense to how our suns gravity attracts from al directions .. but generally, our solar system is pretty much aligned on an elliptic of the sun ? Going with its spin ?
That's kinda how i'm imagining what is happening at the black hole with its rotation / disc ... but i truly am struggling to picture it just now ...
Im sure once i sleep on it .. it will all make much more sense to me in the morning ... (and then i will tell yous what is what joke)


Yes .. i have a very basic grasp of how the moons orbit (and even geosynchronous / geostationary orbit) works .. enough for me to visualise and be content .. but im certainly no NASA scientist .. and dont have the will do do equations ..

Yeah .. im also very aware of the earth moon interaction which is taking place over many millennia

I understand the bobbing up and down .. i understand how its being controlled by gravity .. i can see bobbing up and down is gravities effect ...
the only reason i mentioned it .. is the fact we seem to bob up and down when the majority of the rest of teh galaxy does not ... and that some (few) scientists reckon its because we were part of a smaller galaxy, that is just settling down from a collision in the milky way ... that was my purpose in mentioning it ... and the fact that were about to 'bob' through the 'imaginary plane' again next year .....
I think i even mentioned how its gravity thats holding us in place with the bobbing .. albeit i attributed it to the supermassive blackholes gravity (and still do) over the gravity of all the other significant stars / or whatever force the elusive apparent dark matter exerts ...

You guys obviously find this stuff interesting ... as do i .. .hopefully i can learn some stuff from you around these threads when my heads a bit clearer ... i absolutely love this stuff .. and love trying to wrap my head around some of it

But for now ... even if stephen hawking said he assures me that nothing will happen when we pass through the elliptic .. id still have my reservations .. purely because i dont feel science 'knows it all' about out there yet (especially with supermassive black holes) ... and until someone can adaquately and incontrovertibly explain previous mass extictions, to the point where i can safely rule out this bobbing up and down thing .. then sorry guys .. i have to at least sit on the fence ... until next year anyway ..

Speaking of which .. is it a co-incidence that we are supposed to pass through this plane on winter soltice next year ?
I dont mean the fact that its 2012 .. but the fact that its winter soltice ? ... astranomically .. im guessing thats just a coincidence ? an astranomical one

and of course .. the fact its dead on winter solstice 2012 .. hmm .. im not even gonna go there ...

definitely away to bed this time ..

God Bless

Originally posted by WhatAreSpinkters

Originally posted by stereologist
Magnetic forces do not shape galaxies. The issue is gravity.

Yeah .. I was thinking gravity when i wrote magnetic .. had to correct an identical error earlier .. tooo tired ... but yeah .. im definitely talking about gravity .. not magnetism

yeah .. Im understanding the rotation thing i think .. in a similar sense to how our suns gravity attracts from al directions .. but generally, our solar system is pretty much aligned on an elliptic of the sun ? Going with its spin ?
That's kinda how i'm imagining what is happening at the black hole with its rotation / disc ... but i truly am struggling to picture it just now ...
Im sure once i sleep on it .. it will all make much more sense to me in the morning ... (and then i will tell yous what is what

joke)
Yes .. i have a very basic grasp of how the moons orbit (and even geosynchronous / geostationary orbit) works .. enough for me to visualise and be content .. but im certainly no NASA scientist .. and dont have the will do do equations ..
Yeah . im also very aware of the earth moon interaction which is taking place over many millennia
I understand the bobbing up and down .. i understand how its being controlled by gravity .. i can see bobbing up and down is gravities effect ...
the only reason i mentioned it .. is the fact we seem to bob up and down when the majority of the rest of teh galaxy does not ... and that some (few) scientists reckon its because we were part of a smaller galaxy, that is just settling down from a collision in the milky way ... that was my purpose in mentioning it ... and the fact that were about to 'bob' through the 'imaginary plane' again next year .....
I think i even mentioned how its gravity thats holding us in place with the bobbing .. albeit i attributed it to the supermassive blackholes gravity (and still do) over the gravity of all the other significant stars / or whatever force the elusive apparent dark matter exerts ...

You guys obviously find this stuff interesting ... as do i .. .hopefully i can learn some stuff from you around these threads when my heads a bit clearer ... i absolutely love this stuff .. and love trying to wrap my head around some of it
But for now ... even if stephen hawking said he assures me that nothing will happen when we pass through the elliptic .. id still have my reservations .. purely because i dont feel science 'knows it all' about out there yet (especially with supermassive black holes) ... and until someone can adaquately and incontrovertibly explain previous extictions, to the point where i can safely rule out this bobbing up and down thing .. then sorry guys .. i have to at least sit on the fence ... until next year anyway ..
Speaking of which .. is it a co-incidence that we are supposed to pass through this plane on winter soltice next year ?
I dont mean the fact that its 2012 .. but the fact that its winter soltice ? ... astranomically .. im guessing thats just a coincidence ? an astranomical one

and of course .. the fact its dead on winter solstice 2012 .. hmm .. im not even gonna go there ...
definitely away to bed this time ..
God Bless

edit on 30/4/11 by WhatAreSpinkters because: (no reason given)

I thought the bob into this plane wasnt for another 30 some odd million years? The last one being around 3 million years ago. Ill have to find the article i read.

I did find a good article that does show where the confusion lies. The galactic equator and the galactic plane are different and we pass through this equator apparently twice a year:
earthsky.org...

When I go out at night I usually see where the moons at, and how it looks, have gotten pretty familiar with its course this year!
I'm not sure if it switches directions of where it rises and sets when the seasons change but since a couple weeks, or so, its been reversed...rising close to where it usually sets...is this normal?