To All Jews Who Are Under The Mistaken Belief That God Gave Them The Land Of Israel To The Exclusion

Since I travel to Israel frequently on business I have had many opportunities to speak with Rabbis and less devout Jews on many issues including the historical ownership of the land of Israel. I have been told many times that Israel, including "Greater Israel" (The land from the Nile to the Euphrates) has been allocated to the Jews by God. It is their passionate belief.

This belief is the reason that the government of Israel sends settlers into the West Bank to establish settlements. It is the reason so many non Jews have been forced into exile as refugees, displaced from homes and land their families have occupied for many generations.

So is this the true covenant with God? That Jews have a biblical right to this land to the exclusion of others? Well, lets take a closer look at this. In fact, Genesis, chapter 24 (where the covenant is established) certainly does NOT give anything to Jews. Nothing! The covenant is with the OFFSPRING of Abraham. It has absolutely nothing to do with the a religion. Now, the offspring of Abraham includes some people who happen to practice the jewish religion but also some who have chosen Islam or Christianity as their religion of choice.

Eastern European Jews are converts from the line of Japheth NOT Abraham which excludes them from the covenant. Shepardic Jews are most certainly from blood of Abraham and share in the covenant. Arabs are from the blood of Abraham and also share in the covenant.

There has been some genetic investigation into "Jewishness" with the "Cohen gene" which may suggest descent from a jew but it has nothing to do with the genetic line of Abraham.as all Jews do not have descent. 2-3000 years ago conversion to Judiaism was not uncommon.

Whats the point? Well, it seems to me if one wants to cry from the mountains that God gave them this land they should be sure they in fact do have a biblical right to it. To displace an Arab would be an affront to both God and Abraham as Arab descent from the blood of Abraham is certain.

reply to post by gem_man

All very interesting, but one thing - there is no God and across the world there are many, many nations who have been forced from their old homelands throughout recorded history. So what? What makes this spot so special? What makes any of them so special?

reply to post by JustSomeIdiot


Actually, nothing makes them special. They use this myth to justify the stealing of other peoples land.

reply to post by gem_man


either sounds like you have an issue with people of the jewish faith or the bible or something...discriminate much? if they say they have biblical rights to the land so be it...that will be one of the first places that whoever drops a nuke on at the beginning of the next war to end all wars anyway...so if they want it so bad then let them have it...let them spin their dradles until they see that bright light and it sure wont be the gates of heaven either

Reply to post by gem_man

Funny enough, the Torah and Quran disagree with what you said..

Read up on the the story of Moses


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reply to post by gem_man


what myth did the settlers use when they stole the Native Americans land?

Originally posted by gdaub23
reply to post by gem_man

 

what myth did the settlers use when they stole the Native Americans land?

Oh, I am sure they spoke of their obligation to bring the truth of Christ to the savages. But mainly it was about wanting something and not caring so much about who happens to current posses it. Oh well, but that is past. In the world there were many atrocities made against so many people over recorded history. We can't undo that. We can't give it back. We can't pay for it. At some point we have to just move forward.

What we can do is actually try to see past ignorance, religious myths and greed and try to live with each other for once.

So what about Native Americans? Nobody needs a myth to take what they want. In this case, its an excuse to have their own nation because they have been persecuted everywhere else in the world. Gee, I wonder why (Zion).
Most Jews are good people, but just like every other group, there are those greedy s.o.b's at the top who give them all a bad name and cry and play victim when their people suffer for it. No religion is better than the other. Claiming to be "chosen" is just an excuse. And being victimized is a quick way to power because nobody can mind their own business.

i was raised in religious home, and now i am more spiritual than religious. How can GOD pick one set of people over another. A loving GOD would not do this. Only an Alien Overseer would pick and choose.

Just my thought. I believe in GOD but not gods, or a god. GOD does not pick one human over another. I just dont think that GOD works that way. It doesnt feel right.

Israel is a desert land. There is really not much there. To this day there is nothing of value there.

reply to post by gem_man

IMO. No book written by past men give anyone the right to anything..
Prove the book is fact first, then maybe act on it...

I would also like to add that the DNA claim has been proven false, and even if it did hold water, coversioms to Judaism blows your whole idea out of the water.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do better research next time.




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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by gem_man

 

Funny enough, the Torah and Quran disagree with what you said..

Read up on the the story of Moses

So he should read up on some myth and let that inform him? Hmm... Well of course those books support their view. But they are full of myths and distorted history. Why do their contents matter?

On the other hand, the principal powers of post-WWII let Israel come into existence. No going back on that I suppose but I really wonder - did no one think ahead to the kind of continuous strife they were going to create??? Or did they just not care?

Originally posted by JustSomeIdiot

Originally posted by gdaub23
reply to post by gem_man

What we can do is actually try to see past ignorance, religious myths and greed and try to live with each other for once.

i have said this many times too before along with many other people that have said this but i think that most choose to ignore the simplicity of it and decide to take the harder route

edit on 30-3-2011 by gdaub23 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by JustSomeIdiot

Originally posted by gdaub23
reply to post by gem_man

 

what myth did the settlers use when they stole the Native Americans land?

Oh, I am sure they spoke of their obligation to bring the truth of Christ to the savages. But mainly it was about wanting something and not caring so much about who happens to current posses it. Oh well, but that is past. In the world there were many atrocities made against so many people over recorded history. We can't undo that. We can't give it back. We can't pay for it. At some point we have to just move forward.

What we can do is actually try to see past ignorance, religious myths and greed and try to live with each other for once.

Your moniker is aptly chosen. You believe they took the land in the name of Christ? It's ironic: you cry of seeing passed the ignorance and yet you yourself are completely blinded by it. The European settlers' taking of the Native's land was purely a political movement and had little or nothing to do with religion. They wanted to expand, and felt the "dark skinned savages" were beneath them and needed to be expunged. It was an evil act and it was an act of politics.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
Your moniker is aptly chosen. You believe they took the land in the name of Christ? It's ironic: you cry of seeing passed the ignorance and yet you yourself are completely blinded by it. The European settlers' taking of the Native's land was purely a political movement and had little or nothing to do with religion. They wanted to expand, and felt the "dark skinned savages" were beneath them and needed to be expunged. It was an evil act and it was an act of politics.

Actually, what I was trying to say was pretty much along the same lines as what you said (I did say they "spoke" of their obligation but mainly it was about wanting something). They (and I should have have said "some of them") spoke early on of their duty, but clearly greed and politics by the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, French and English settlers and governments and then by our own governments and individuals were certainly the primary driver for expansion.

I can see this thread perhaps getting heated, as people cling to their beliefs blindly when challenged, but as Le Colonel said above, it makes no sense whatsoever for a being that created all to choose one part of his creation over another.

As far as that goes, why would a perfect being, omniscient and omnipotent, give a rip whether or not you worship it? Seems a bit overly conceited for a perfect being. That would be like you demanding all the ants in your yard believe only in you, and no other. Jealousy and conceit do not mesh with a perfect being, capable of creating and knowing all. But I guess we could poke holes in religions all day, and never sway those who refuse to budge in their beliefs.

Religion... There will be no winners, There will be no loosers, In discussing such a pointless subject of often conflicting beliefs.

reply to post by gem_man


I would had debated you on your topic but since I don't like liars, I'm going to sit back and let you dig your hole so deep that you are going to be seen for what you really are!

The line of Japheth? He was blessed to "enlarge, and dwell in the tent of Shem" who is Abrahams desendant. So they are family who live together. You should study more without crap in your eyes


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If such a thing as God existed, he/she/it would not countenance kicking people out of their homes out of some historical right. And if indeed there was a God who was OK with this, that would make that God evil.
As things stand I prefer to think of the settlers and their supporters as evil. They are both bigotted and evil, having lost their humanity and ability to empathise and recognise the wrong they are doing.
Put them on an island with muslim and other fanatics. These characters do not belong in a decent society.