Compasses going crazy...Theories and Research

Originally posted by nenothtu

Magnetic north varies from year to year with the movement of the magnetic north pole, and there will be a figure (usually in "arc minutes", shown by a " ' ") to allow the user to compensate for declination changes in the interim between map editions. One arc second is 1/60th degree. Maps for this area, for example, say the change is 2' year, meaning that it should change 1 full degree in 30 years at that rate.

I was in a hurry to get out the door yesterday, and now I have to correct myself for sloppiness in this post quoted. One arc MINUTE is 1/60 degree. An "arc second" is actually 1/3600 degree (1/60 of an arc minute).

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by TKDRL

 

But we were discussing Magnetic North Anomolies, not maps or hiking. I know if I was going hiking the difference in the 2 North Poles only we were only talking about one, Magnetic North.

The thing is, if you don't use an unchanging reference, such as "true" north or "grid" north, you can't adjust for expected movement in the magnetic north reading. You have nothing to compare it against other than itself, and it is KNOWN to be moving.

In other words, without knowing where true north is, you can't know where magnetic north is in relation to a fixed point, and so you won't know if your compass reading is off or not from what it is expected to be. It can wander all over the place, and your compass will still point to it, wherever it is. It could be off by 180 degrees, flipped all the way to the south pole instead of the north pole, and your compass would still read it as "(magnetic) "north". If the compass is the only reference you have, you have no way of knowing where it's actually pointing in relation to the Earth's spin poles.

Originally posted by verschickter

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by coolottie

 

True North + declination = magnetic north

True north is part of the equation. Without knowing where true north is you cannot tell if your compass is giving you a strange reading.

you can, if you had done it a year ago and left the compass alone without moving, you can see if its off or not. Mine is fine, it shows a offset +1 compared to last year but this would be the normal case because MN moves slowly

I'm wondering too if perhaps that is a good idea as well simply for a little *extra* data. IF people ALSO had a second? fixed compass outdoors away from any known interference, and they just left it alone set away from the weather, and they just read it periodically, at least they might also be able to determine if the needle was experiencing any variations in relation to where it was last. This might tell in and of itself if there were daily/weekly/monthly variations/flucuations of significance that caused it to 'wander' substantially that were of a more local or regional (or other) source and might be usefull as well in making more accurate determinations of that nature and eliminating some variables.

reply to post by Tecumte
I have been doing it since January, left a compass on my winowsill, not moved and since Thursday 24th March the needle has changed so many times:

24/3-10am off 20 degrees NW
5pm off 40 degrees NW
Midnight off 20 degrees NW

26/3-2.30pm pointing magnetic north
11.30pm pointing magnetic north

27/3-6pm pointing 10 degrees NE

29/3-3pm pointing 20 degrees NE

This is only sporadic readings taken over the past few days but there has been a lot of movement that duplicates a lot of what has been going on since January from my anecdotal readings.

Mine is fixed in the cellar for almost one year I marked MN and true north (wich could be slightly off if my chart is not uptodate) sadly there is no sunlight reaching the point where its fixed so i could watch true north too

reply to post by nenothtu
A point of reference would have to be something that was lined up to Magnetic North at least a year ago are at least 5 months ago. Someone on the thread said they lined up a large stone they placed in their yard years ago to exactly Magnetic North. As my house was lined up to Magnetic North 11 years ago. Their compass and mine are way off for when these things were lined up to Exactly Magnetic North. Now I can go to True North and compare where my house is lined up to True North and my compass is absolutely going to be off because and would have been off when the house was built because it was aligned to Magnetic North to begin with not True North. Now fishermen use to go by the North Pole star and some still do. If they have a good compass and know the present Fluxuation of Magnectic North and plot their course by where Magnetic North is. They are ploting their course by the Magnetic Pole and not by True North or even comparing True North to Magnetic North. True North then has nothing to do with their plotted course because they are not using it. A compass has a Magnet in it and only points to Magnetic North because that is the strongest pull of the Magnetic Field. A compass will not even point to True North because it is not based on the pull of the Magnetic Field and doesn't have anything to do with the Magnetic Field, so a magnet will not even show anyone True North. Each one, Magnetic and True, are too completely different ways to plot a course, totally independant of each other.

reply to post by Tecumte
I will go and buy a new compass and put it far away from the house as I have tested this one in other areas.

Now this is why everyone thinks we can't read a compass. This is not what I was doing because I didn't have to. It was done 11 years ago. But what is being said on this thread is that all of us that is reading our compasses don't know about declination. Declination is what you do to change from one course ploting reference to another. The reason we were not discussing declination, is because we were not ploting Mag to True, or True to Mag. Once you have Mag, as we did 11 years ago to place the house, there is no need to plot delination.

Magnetic declination is the angle between magnetic north (the direction the north end of a compass needle points) and true north. The declination is positive when the magnetic north is east of true north. The term

[yvid]Somewhat more formally, Bowditch defines variation as “the angle between the magnetic and geographic meridians at any place, expressed in degrees and minutes east or west to indicate the direction of magnetic north from true north. The angle between magnetic and grid meridians is called grid magnetic angle, grid variation, or grivation. Called magnetic variation when a distinction is needed to prevent possible ambiguity. Also called magnetic declination.” [1][/yvid]

Now this statement is true, but Magnetic North has always been east of True North since the earth fell off on its Axis whenever that was. Everyone got their "Asuming Hat on" Asuming no one on the thread knew this. That we were all a bunch of dummies. But the Magnetic Pole is moving very fast and a lot faster than what people are being told. And because of this thread we have found an anomoly in the eastern US. Now you can take your compass out and point it to the North Star and show everyone that the compass is pointing toward the east. Good for you !!! It will show that Magnetic North is east of True North and assume people on this thread are stupid. "" In fact the Magnetic North is now moving closer to True North in the past 10 years.""

reply to post by petar258


I've just read quite a lot of Zeta talk and the Atlantic Rift being the third magnetic pole on Earth. Interesting theory.
Could be right or wrong.
Compasses do seem to be pointing towards Atlantic rift.

But the Zetas are evil and have been lying to those poor abductees. How do I know this? Because I have caught them out on at least three lies on this site;
www.zetatalk.com...

www.google.com...:13%3BAH:left%3BCX:ZT%3BL:www.google.com... _sm.gif%3BLH:30%3BLP:1%3BKMBOC:%23336699%3B&cx=010085725032305267605:eufqp4uqvck&adkw=AELymgVk0pXnIY9a3Q3D66n_wKb8I0Tl9c8Q7yEtL9bTONcqpQWh0JztULyvnzLM aAtUg_d1EucQt0CzwH7-VjUhRcXDnPQA5NRtdwoGAPF1AVJ8O3mxYfc&boostcse=0&ei=k4uSTaLFOoOYhQe6-7mKDw&q=atlantic+rift&start=80&sa=N

They say Planet X is already here and I can positively say it isn't and the anomaly in the photos, on the above page is a Black hole accretion disc.
I decoded a Crop circle that had paleo-Hebrew in it and they lied to the contactees that it was not a language but a chart of magnetic flips. I would swear right now if allowed._javascript:icon('')

All I can say is don't believe these beings they are not telling the complete truth!!!!!!

And a pattern seems to be happening I post something about a black hole and twice now the thread just stops.
Is ATS being censored??????
Or am I boring the pants off the thread with my provable theory of a black hole near our sun?????
I will check what happens to this rather interesting thread, will it continue afterwards!

reply to post by MadDogtheHunter


we are experiencing massive earth changes now and will continue to do so.

the path has been set and it's probably a learning experience to assist evolution - to show people different ways to exist and that things like nuclear power aren't the way to go; and also the importance of helping one another and that we all share the same planet etc.

Everyone that commented on this thread, needs to go to this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by MadDogtheHunter
There has been a lot of topics posted here on ATS about possible shifting of the earths magnetic poles. I was on the skeptical side for a while on that subject. I mean, yeah, I know its happened before and will likely happen again. But I didn't think in my lifetime.

That said.......

I was digging through some old boxes of junk this morning. And I came across my old compass. One of those good ones that allow you to do line-of-sight measurements and all. I opened it up, and noticed something really odd. It was showing magnetic north towards what would be dead-east from where I was standing. At first, I thought maybe it was broke or maybe something in my home was causing the faulty readings. So, I tried it far away from my home, same results. Later in the day, I told a good friend of mine who lives 2 states south of me and he checked his compass. His was showing magnetic north in the east too!

Is it possible that the quake in Japan altered the poles? The quake DID mess up earths axis slightly. Or is something else going on here? Two good compasses over 600 miles apart, acting the same way, is very suspicious to me.

Can anyone locate any information that might help solve this strange phenomenon?

edit on 3/19/2011 by MadDogtheHunter because: (no reason given)

edit on Sun Mar 20 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: per OP request

Maybe I have no idea what Im talking about...but from what I understand, you need to account for declination on a regular basis.

When was the last time (as well as all other posters) you accounted for declination of your area? It is always changing.

reply to post by coolottie

It was done 11 years ago. But what is being said on this thread is that all of us that is reading our compasses don't know about declination. Declination is what you do to change from one course ploting reference to another. The reason we were not discussing declination, is because we were not ploting Mag to True, or True to Mag. Once you have Mag, as we did 11 years ago to place the house, there is no need to plot delination.

Im confused...how can you talk about reading a compass and not talk about declination?

The Mag would have changed from 11 years ago in your location. So have you not taken into account a fresh declination in your area?

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by nenothtu

 

A point of reference would have to be something that was lined up to Magnetic North at least a year ago are at least 5 months ago. Someone on the thread said they lined up a large stone they placed in their yard years ago to exactly Magnetic North. As my house was lined up to Magnetic North 11 years ago. Their compass and mine are way off for when these things were lined up to Exactly Magnetic North. Now I can go to True North and compare where my house is lined up to True North and my compass is absolutely going to be off because and would have been off when the house was built because it was aligned to Magnetic North to begin with not True North. Now fishermen use to go by the North Pole star and some still do. If they have a good compass and know the present Fluxuation of Magnectic North and plot their course by where Magnetic North is. They are ploting their course by the Magnetic Pole and not by True North or even comparing True North to Magnetic North. True North then has nothing to do with their plotted course because they are not using it. A compass has a Magnet in it and only points to Magnetic North because that is the strongest pull of the Magnetic Field. A compass will not even point to True North because it is not based on the pull of the Magnetic Field and doesn't have anything to do with the Magnetic Field, so a magnet will not even show anyone True North. Each one, Magnetic and True, are too completely different ways to plot a course, totally independant of each other.

From what I understand (and I could be wrong) is that your plotting spot needs to be of true north....then you figure declination.

If you are using magnetic north as a plotting spot, how can you regularly figure the changing declination of true north>?

This is why the north star is often used for a plot....because you can then figure from that plot your declination for your area, which is always changing a bit.

Originally posted by kalenga
reply to post by Tecumte

 

I have been doing it since January, left a compass on my winowsill, not moved and since Thursday 24th March the needle has changed so many times:

24/3-10am off 20 degrees NW
5pm off 40 degrees NW
Midnight off 20 degrees NW

26/3-2.30pm pointing magnetic north
11.30pm pointing magnetic north

27/3-6pm pointing 10 degrees NE

29/3-3pm pointing 20 degrees NE

This is only sporadic readings taken over the past few days but there has been a lot of movement that duplicates a lot of what has been going on since January from my anecdotal readings.

To me, this is the most interesting. To observe regular readings of a 'moving' needle in short spans of time, like throughout a days time.

Not sure what to think of such.

Even if one did not have their declination figured out just right on their compass...for the needle to be moving that much in a short time span, shows something strange.

reply to post by LeoVirgo
I just give up trying to post on this thread anymore... All of you just want to talk about True North, and declination, And keep giving instructions like we know nothing about reading a compass. About the 3 or 4 page someone even put up a map showing it. If I didn't know how to work a compass and have it aligned, I would have not even posted on this thread. This thread has turned into nothing but talking about True North and how to use a compass. Everyone got way off the subject, and insulting everyone's intelligence, that no one even knows what the conversation was to begin with. The subject is going to another site, so you just can go ahead talking about True North. All it did was confuse people to the point everyone was just arguing and making ugly comments. If you would just report what your compass says, at least you will be close to the subject of the thread.

reply to post by LeoVirgo
Excuse my out burst, but the fact that you at least admit something is strange, So what does your compass say, If you have one get it out and become a contributer to the subject.

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

I just give up trying to post on this thread anymore... All of you just want to talk about True North, and declination, And keep giving instructions like we know nothing about reading a compass. About the 3 or 4 page someone even put up a map showing it. If I didn't know how to work a compass and have it aligned, I would have not even posted on this thread. This thread has turned into nothing but talking about True North and how to use a compass. Everyone got way off the subject, and insulting everyone's intelligence, that no one even knows what the conversation was to begin with. The subject is going to another site, so you just can go ahead talking about True North. All it did was confuse people to the point everyone was just arguing and making ugly comments. If you would just report what your compass says, at least you will be close to the subject of the thread.

Im not insulting, I too just want answers.

I want to know when is the last time you figured on your compass declination from true north.

Thanks!
LV

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Excuse my out burst, but the fact that you at least admit something is strange, So what does your compass say, If you have one get it out and become a contributer to the subject.

We do have one but its not mine and I am going to have to educate myself a bit on my area and how to update to magnetic north in my area. Will likely be this evening for me to dig it up and figure it out but I will for sure be looking into this.

Im not trying to discredit anyone. I am wanting to make sure everyone is giving accurate readings and has figured their declination on their compass prior to these readings.

How is what I am asking out of the way for such a thread? Would this not be something everyone should be concerned about if we are going to be noting different readings in different areas?

Compasses need to be figured on a regular basis.

I just want to know that everyone did configure for their area prior to readings.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Lol that is why I quit posting in this thread prettymuch. Every time I brought it up people would start yelling about how they were talking about magnetic and true doesn't come into the equation.... I just gave up, not worth the aggravation. If one of my uncles or cousins that use compasses regularly for hiking too back in the US noticed it, then I would be worried.

reply to post by coolottie


Knowing how to use a compass is an EXCELLENT point of reference. magnetic north moves over time (independent of these anomalies) and so MUST be calibrated against a known and fixed point. What is one to do if he wants to check for a local magnetic variation that may be off if his house or pre-set rock isn't close to hand?

He uses a fixed, known point that can be found anywhere, that's how. He compares the reading against what it should be by comparing it with true north +/- the expected magnetic declination.

magnetic north is variable, and mobile. It depends on where you are on the planet, and even then it moves over time. In order to plot a course (i.e. your fishermen example), one needs in addition to a compass a map, and the knowledge of where true north is. In such cases, magnetic and true north are absolutely NOT "independent of one another", they are CLOSELY related, and VERY interdependent. Maps are not printed on magnetic north, they are printed on geographical north. You have to know the magnetic declination, and how to apply it, in order to plot any sort of course with an expectation of arriving at the desired destination, especially over expanses of water that may not have any landmarks on them at all.

True North has EVERYTHING to do with a plotted course, if you expect to arrive where you intend to at the other end of that course. Magnetic north is completely useless without it.

Edit to add: Another example. In the 1750's or 1760's a group of partners buried a treasure in eastern Kentucky. As of the date that the last of them died, none had ever recovered it. The only references to the locations of the caches were recorded as magnetic bearings in a journal. To date, no one has recovered any of the treasure. In order to do so, one cannot just take a magnetic bearing and run with it to the end of the rainbow, which is what most are doing who attempt it. One has also to account for the motion of the magnetic north pole during the time in between then and now LOCAL TO THAT AREA. The magnetic declination will have changed with the motion of magnetic north in the interim, and readings taken THEN, if followed NOW, will inevitably lead one to the wrong spot. The only way to adjust is to compare the magnetic declination from then to the magnetic declination now, and account for that variation, and the only way to accomplish that is to compare both against true north, which doesn't change.

Comparing magnetic north against only itself will never reveal an adjustment. The compass will always point to magnetic north, wherever it is, and won't tell you that it has moved.