No Western Govt Has Ever Claimed The power To Do This! The King Of England! Not Hitler! Not Stalin!

Obama Approves Life Imprisonment without Trial for Guantánamo Prisoners
Wednesday, March 09, 2011

(graphic: Bob Boldt, Chico Peace and Justice Center) On March 7, President Barack Obama signed an executive order permitting the indefinite detention without trial of prisoners being held at the U.S. military installation at Guantánamo Bay.

The order will be applied to 47 prisoners at Guantánamo, out of the 172 being held there. Another 36 are due to be tried before a military commission, while the remaining 89 have been cleared for eventual release. Those who may spend the rest of their lives in custody without trial are considered too dangerous to let go. However, the legal cases against them are fraught with “evidentiary problems,” which in many instances means the evidence the U.S. has was obtained through the use of torture and could be thrown out in court.

Under Obama’s policy, detainees will be able to submit documentary evidence every six months about their innocence, but their cases will only be reviewed every three years.

www.allgov.com...

Just to be clear the executive order does not say that they will retain prisoners after found innocent. What it says some will be held without trail because of evidential problems.

this is exactly why we need to stop protesting ( its gets u sno where and you know it) and start rioting

So at what point does an intelligent person stand up and say enough is enough. Is it acceptable when its a suspected terrorist but unacceptable when its a what... white family? Where is the line drawn - and can we still draw it when we see its becoming too late? If this is possible now... what room do we have left if anything we stand for becomes past the acceptable standards being drawn by someone else?

Personally I think that an open forum with the powers that be should be set up. And we need to ask the tough questions like these to get an answer... When a Gov stops being for "We the people..." and becomes "We that know better..." How does one redress the balance peacefully?

Can... in a legal sense - an individual stand on the promise and strength of the Constitution and refuse the amendments that violate blatantly the rights of the people? In a true sense a democracy is by the people and for the people... can we vote on issues WITHOUT Gov involvement and choose to change things?

This should be possible. How do we do it?

Back on Topic...

I find myself split in what the bull%$£% we have been fed tells me in my head - that these are dangerous men potentially and we should be free to do this.... but at the same time I know its wrong and wish a trial for them regardless of the outcome.
We have heard of the kidnapping and the torture "rendition" style with innocent people they knew were innocent just to see what they could get them to confess to.

And last but not least... is even asking these sort of questions getting you put on a list somewhere for being a sympathizer and potential troublemaker?

Originally posted by HenryPatrick
this is freaking terrifying...american citizens are definitely next...its getting pretty close to fleeing time...bet you dont see this on the daily show

I like your point.

The Daily Show IMO is unfortunately responsible for the rise of "leftist hipsters" who are just SO smart and understand politics in that, voting for any republican makes you not cool and totally not IN with their coffee sipping crowd.

I hate the ideals people hold of left vs. right...politicians = illusions of choice.

Originally posted by chancemusky
Anybody else reminded of 1984...?
I thought we were finally moving towards removing unconstitutional laws, even slowly. But once again, the government has proven that I really cannot trust them. Everyone's equal now, so long as we like you..

Its despicable, and I dont know how politicians, especially the president!, can get away with this!?? I believe we, the people, not the politicians, need to take a look at our leaders. Is this really what we want to live under? I for one, do not, and hope others feel the same. The time for sitting down and letting it slide has come to an end, we need to stand up and rise against this. Now, Im not trying to incite a revolution, but if that's what it takes to fix this, well, I wont condemn it.

Good post, OP, very informative.

Love your 1984 reference...both myself and my wife are always relating that book to the current state of affairs...maybe he didn't get the years right, but everything is happening...it's only a matter of time until we are issued government mandated televisions fully equipped with webcam monitoring systems....the world is effing scary...we need to organize a tribal community ASAP

reply to post by morder1


This is just another example of our Presidents total disregard of the Constitution and the laws of this land. He has also decided that the Defense of Marriage Act is no longer enforceable because it blocks gay rights but this is a decision for the courts to decide. Obama is not a judge and jury. He has also signed into law a unconstitutional health care mandate and who knows what else has been passed in these 3000 page bills. The liberals and progressives are dead set on making our constitution a "dead" document instead of the "living" document it was intended to be when this country was founded.

Originally posted by Dinogur
this is exactly why we need to stop protesting ( its gets u sno where and you know it) and start rioting

Sad thing is, nobody is protesting THIS, they are busy protesting things like "I have to pay $50 more for my health insurance"....maybe a better protest would be "stop the insurance controlled healthcare"

When will everyone realize that Power only holds Power when we the people Empower the person who claims to have the Power. Without, we the people, their power would not exist, a good example of this was just recently shown to be true, Egypt, where the people of that nation no longer Empowered Hosni Mubarak.

When will enough be enough here in the US before we stop empowering the people who are supposed to represent us the people? When will the people here in the US empower the constitution and strip the power from the so called people in power?

If we the people let this continue to happen, how long will it be before we will all live in a totalitarian state?

reply to post by I think Im normal


No populous is as apathetic as Americans are... The power the government has and continues to gain at will is entirely enabled by an apathetic people.

The vast majority of Americans wont know what has hit them until it is too late... Really it is already too late.

The corrupt US leadership and government is too big, too powerful, and has too many dependent apathetic constituents to ever be effectively challenged or defeated.

Enjoy oblivion.

Originally posted by I think Im normal
When will everyone realize that Power only holds Power when we the people Empower the person who claims to have the Power. Without, we the people, their power would not exist, a good example of this was just recently shown to be true, Egypt, where the people of that nation no longer Empowered Hosni Mubarak.

When will enough be enough here in the US before we stop empowering the people who are supposed to represent us the people? When will the people here in the US empower the constitution and strip the power from the so called people in power?

If we the people let this continue to happen, how long will it be before we will all live in a totalitarian state?

That's a lot of rhetoric....what are you concrete ways that U.S. citizens can stop empowering gov.?

Originally posted by Gooey6

Originally posted by I think Im normal
When will everyone realize that Power only holds Power when we the people Empower the person who claims to have the Power. Without, we the people, their power would not exist, a good example of this was just recently shown to be true, Egypt, where the people of that nation no longer Empowered Hosni Mubarak.

When will enough be enough here in the US before we stop empowering the people who are supposed to represent us the people? When will the people here in the US empower the constitution and strip the power from the so called people in power?

If we the people let this continue to happen, how long will it be before we will all live in a totalitarian state?

That's a lot of rhetoric....what are you concrete ways that U.S. citizens can stop empowering gov.?

The only concrete way is to stop being Apathetic like Fractured.Facade has stated. It is so true what Fractured.Facade says, and I think the only way to actually solidify any hope is for everyone to wake up, but, how does one wake up? We are so brainwashed here in the states that waking up would mean thinking for ones self. To stop thinking this way, Its not affecting me directly, then I do not care. It is this thinking that has allowed the government to continue down this road of control.

Originally posted by I think Im normal

Originally posted by Gooey6

Originally posted by I think Im normal
When will everyone realize that Power only holds Power when we the people Empower the person who claims to have the Power. Without, we the people, their power would not exist, a good example of this was just recently shown to be true, Egypt, where the people of that nation no longer Empowered Hosni Mubarak.

When will enough be enough here in the US before we stop empowering the people who are supposed to represent us the people? When will the people here in the US empower the constitution and strip the power from the so called people in power?

If we the people let this continue to happen, how long will it be before we will all live in a totalitarian state?

That's a lot of rhetoric....what are you concrete ways that U.S. citizens can stop empowering gov.?

The only concrete way is to stop being Apathetic like Fractured.Facade has stated. It is so true what Fractured.Facade says, and I think the only way to actually solidify any hope is for everyone to wake up, but, how does one wake up? We are so brainwashed here in the states that waking up would mean thinking for ones self. To stop thinking this way, Its not affecting me directly, then I do not care. It is this thinking that has allowed the government to continue down this road of control.

Well, I know there are a lot of people waking up....but honestly....when push comes to shove, we won't be that different from the protesters getting slaughtered in the streets....let Dictatorship reign.

reply to post by Gooey6


Thanks haha, I read it a few years ago, maybe just 7th?? Anyways, It really did hit the nail on the head. Lots of people just choose to not see it

reply to post by morder1


Find us a strong leader and I think majority are sick and tired and ready for a change.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

For those in a perpetual state of immediate and unequivocal denial... The simplest path to PROOF is the easiest....

STOP reading it, there is no need, refrain from further discussion and just wait for actual PROOF.

Actions speak louder than words.

In time you will see how this new executive order/law will be used, it was written and passed for reasons vital to national security... Be results oriented, be calm, and watch as the innocent remain detained, transferred to foreign nations for interrogations and torture and returned to Guantanamo for continued and possibly indefinite detention.

Pray you are never abducted on suspicion of involvement with terrorism, or ANY other issues considered a vital national security threat, real or fabricated... They now have arbitrary and discretionary powers the most radical rulers and dictatorships of our world would admire immensely.

You want proof?

It is coming, and soon.

edit on 9-3-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)

you have still managed to skirt the issue i present and continue to act in a divisive manner while hiding behind your self righteous fractured facade.

I do beleive that my country is on the wrong path and i work WITH people to correct that. There are already more than enough reasons (with PROOF) to be concerned about the US Governments actions, there is no need to baselessly cause fear in others, that is what got us in this mess in the first place.
Dont pretend to know or understand me or why i ask questions.
I have made no statement to invoke the reaction you have given, unless your intent is to hide something and distract people from the truth.

I'll pose a new question for you...whay makes you an expert in such law and interpretation and why should anyone listen to your arrogant and spiteful words?

So after reading all of the comments, and watching the video.....people of America here is my question:

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? (I fear the answer is nothing)


I feel they are doing this to get ready for the economic chaos that is going to occur in the next few years. The all the laws will be in place to throw you in a camp and forget about you.

Originally posted by yeahright

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade

 

All a scant few of us in this thread have been asking for is the specific reference in this Executive Order that pertains to holding onto detainees beyond a determination of Not Guilty.

Apparently, no one can do that?

Hey, maybe it's there. Mea culpa, I'm not finding it. My personal preference is to withhold umbrage until I'm sure. I see little difference between blindly following TPTB and blindly following the latest rantophile who invented an issue. Show me that's not what's happening. I'll be grateful.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

"Sec. 2. Standard for Continued Detention. Continued law of war detention is warranted for a detainee subject to the periodic review in section 3 of this order if it is necessary to protect against a significant threat to the security of the United States."

Of course the govt isn't going to spell out "even in case of a not guilty verdict", they don't have too.. this process is akin to a DMV hearing.. it's seperate from a "legal" process.

If govt officials decide "it is necessary", regardless of anything else.. so be it. If KSM is acquitted, you think the draconian mafioso in DC will let the boogie-man go free?.. lol

This wordy tripe does is set up a series of govt controlled administrative "full reviews and hearings" that allow secret evidence: "the Government determines that the need to protect national security, including intelligence sources and methods, or law enforcement or privilege concerns, requires the Government to provide counsel with a sufficient substitute or summary of the information."

Who determines what a "sufficient substitute" is?, oh yea, honest and virtuous politicians and their "senior official" lackeys..

Who will be the reviewers or judges?.. lol.. this is great: (b) "Periodic Review Board" means: a board composed of senior officials tasked with fulfilling the functions described in section 3 of this order

Woohoo!!.. "senior officials" lmao..

The cherry on top of this joke: "The process established under this order does not address the legality of any detainee's law of war detention.".. meaning even if "detainee's" detention is found to be illegal elsewhere, or another "authority" has found the detainee "not guilty" or ordered released.. this so called "process" "does not address" that "legality".

This is hitlers "peoples court" incarnate, and an insult to the "rule of law"

"The People's Court (German: Volksgerichtshof) was a court established in 1934 by German Chancellor Adolf Hitler, who had been dissatisfied with the outcome of the Reichstag Fire Trial (all but one of the accused were acquitted). The "People's Court" was set up outside the operations of the constitutional frame of law."

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by RadicalRebel
I'll pose a new question for you...whay makes you an expert in such law and interpretation and why should anyone listen to your arrogant and spiteful words?

Whay?

Personal experience has made me an expert, in my opinion.

No one needs to 'listen' to me at all... nor should anyone, seeing actual actions and results should be sufficient in the absence of any interpretation.