US is more economically "third world" than Mexico

OK we all know the joy some US residents here on ATS have in making out their neighbor to the south to be a dirty hopeless amoral, scrounging, pityful, drug ridden, parasitic, jealous, lazy, backward, leach of a corrupt and rotten society.

Maybe that is because, as the adage goes, people who see things in others that they don't like within themselves do everything they can to expose the other in a vain attempt to case the light away from their own short comings.

For your consideration: The Economist
Economist Magazine

Make a comparison on the left between the USA and Mexico.

And you will see the following

Public debt: US - 8 Trillion Mex - 351 Billion
Debt per person : US $26,000 Mex $3,200
Debt as % of GDP 56.3% (see IMF below) Mex: 39.2%
Annual change: US +22.1% Mex - (MINUS) 7.6 %

Now for a developing nation with a GDP output of 1 Trillion based on the above figures is not so bad really. But in the meantime the US is printing money like it is going out of fashion. Literally trying to spend its way out of trouble, as the whole economy is solely based of circular serves and consumerism. working in goods and services to support the consumption of goods and services. To me at least, is unsustainable.

Simple question. If Mexico is soooo bad as a lot (not all) of you make out, why do the figures put them in a FAR better place economically speaking, than the US?

Their standard of living is increasing, what's your's doing? (really that is a serious question, not a statement)

Still don't believe me?

Lets check the IMF!

IMF Debt Map.

Now this is interesting as the IMF currently has the US, and most of the developed world with debt of >75% of GDP,

Also check the graph at the bottom, G20 developing nations debt is on a downward trend, G20 Advanced it going parabolic - Hmmmm I wonder what could have caused that???

Currently the US is at 84% of GDP, with current annual change of +22% by 2012 that will mean 106%, 2013 127% etc unless something drastic changes.

According to the IMF figures last time this was so high and with this rate of increase in the US was 1943 - 1945, which was even higher than "The GREAT Depression which in 1921 peaked at 32 % of GDP, which according to the economist is rigth where Mexico is now give or take a few percentage points.

You see where I am going with this? currently with debts outstripping the great depression, close to outstripping the end of WW2, whereas you poor, helpless cousin to the south just recently had IMF finance option expire and didn't take them,

IMF SDR Fund data - Mexico

has a debt that is decreasing, and a education system that is on the increase. According to the CIA as of 2005 (how out of date is that??)

Average age of education expectancy for males in Mexico was 14, in the US 15 Mexico GDP education expenditure 4.5% US 5% not a great deal of difference in real terms. Although in the cities, now it is almost expected that a youth of the growing middle classes, and upwardly mobile working class WILL complete tertiary education.

It just seems to me, that the people in the south know they have a problem and are working hard at trying to get better. whereas the US refuse to see there is a problem, and when they do get called wackjobs and home grown terrorists, and go back to watching WWE Smackdown, whist eating a cheeseburger and complaining about illegals taking all the jobs. (Irony, rather than blanket statement of fact)

You can call this a rant if you like, personally I am putting this up here as a graphical evidence as a call to wake up, before you finally do wake up one day, and find you are the ones selling tortillas on the street. not only that but to actually recognize that the people you so commonly complain about, are actually doing things to better their situation, and catching you up fast, whilst all you do is nothing but complain about them.

Is it no wonder that the acceptance on US Dollars is now PROHIBITED everywhere as settlement for goods / services and debts public and private by order of the central Mexican bank? I don't blame them, why take the USD when they have a perfectly good fiat currency of their own, including a thriving gold and silver trading economy. do they know something we don't??

Please put you own house in order first, before looking down on others. i.e. be careful who's fingers you stand on, on the way up the ladder, as you will expose you arse to them on the way back down!!

Or is it now the case that from the information coming out, from Pastor Williams, Gerald Celente and the like, do you think it is now just now too late for you?

the american economy pours money to the turd world instead of giving it to our own people. if all the "aid" we give out was stopped, our quality of life would be second to none

Post all the numbers you want... if life is so much better down there they wouldn't be coming to America. Believe what you want, though, and I'll do the same.

reply to post by rebeldog


Would it though? What is to guarantee that if tomorrow, All foreign aid from the US stopped.

You STILL have the 8 TRILLION public debt to deal with.

You still have big demand for goods and services, and a planned scarcity in place. which in turn leads to inflation. which in turn will lead to higher interest rates which means less money in your pocket as a person.

All more money in the system will mean, is that the banks will be able to monetize the debt further, in the fractional system, and increase their leverage even further, which in turn puts more pressure on the inflationary nature of the system, meaning more need for higher interests rate, meaning even LESS money in your pockets, and yet MORE payments due from the Gov to the FR

Don't think for one second that you or your peers would ever EVER see one cent of that money you currently "give away". Beside you don't give it away. It's another mechanism for foreign entities to buy US debt. At a rate of course. They just call it "aid" and when the "turd" world as you put it defaults, the banks collect on the assets.

Turd world!! that just sums it up. I can tell just from that comment alone, that people within the third world have more class and sense of self worth in their little finger than you have in your burger munching overfed, flag waving ass.

reply to post by JakiusFogg


While I harbor no ill will towards Mexico or Mexicans at all... I have to say that using individual per capita debt, as a basis for comparison is, in my opinion, misleading. One might argue that some of the larger cities within Mexico can be compared apples to apples with the US. But comparing most of rural Mexico to any standard of living in the US wouldn't hold up to scrutiny. That would be more apples to oranges.

Then again, having said that, let's be fair. Dirt poor in the US vs dirt poor in Mexico probably isn't much of a different experience. I am not terribly familiar with the realities of social services in Mexico - but I believe they do have food relief (like ours) plus free/affordable medical care (something our poor do not have), so I imagine that the poorest of Americans might actually have reason to envy their counterparts south of the border.

But if we address employment? Well even at 20-25% real unemployment in the US... I think that the US is still at an advantage there.

~Heff

reply to post by James1982


Oh I never said that life was soo much better down there. That is where your bias self righteous views fall down.

What I said, is that while the US position is declining, RAPIDLY the mexican position is increasing, and in a far healthier state.

There is still a way to go yet, but if you don't watch yourselves, you'll find the reverse to be true. it's matter of trends. Pull your head out of the sand, and realise the dire position your country is in.

if you care to continue the belief that you are soo much better than the people to the south, then so be it. They have no such hangs up. They know their position, and are working at it.

What are you lot doing?

I’m convinced. Mexico is a much better place to raise a family. I’m swimming south, anybody with me?

reply to post by JakiusFogg

Turd world!! that just sums it up. I can tell just from that comment alone, that people within the third world have more class and sense of self worth in their little finger than you have in your burger munching overfed, flag waving ass.

Sigh. Another hate america thread. So tiresome.

Firstly, I like Mexico, and Mexicans.

Secondly, the United States remains one of the most affluent countries on the planet. Insulting us won't change that fact. You know it, and your OP changes nothing, except to demonstrate your resentment.

reply to post by Hefficide


Aha a balanced view, well done you.

Just for info, the social services in Mexico is limited. there is basic free healthcare, that is currently going through reforms by the Federal government by way of investments.

and yes you are right, the major cities can be comparable to averages across the US.

What I do find surprising, with the developed world although I shouldn't really be suprised is that in fact it IS ...of all things developing.

The main point of my OP was more a little slap across the face to US self satisfaction and open willingness to cast down on others, shall we say, in a less affluent position.

You will find no point in my OP, that states that the conditions of living in Mexico are better than in the US. Although in cases they are comparable.

If you have money, their world class private medical, private schools, top class homes, all the luxury goods you can buy, eat, drive, wear, put on your face, consume, have done to you, etc etc etc! even some you can't get in the US (Cuban cigars for one)

However, the main point is not one of quality of life. More about economic indicators of growth and development. Whereas the US population is currently content to coast along, safe in the belief that they have the best of the best it has always been that way and there is nothing to worry about. The Mexicans, in large when down on your luck are left to their own devices.

it really is work or die. simple as that. as if you don't or haven't you do not get access to the IMNS. That is the Mex version of social security. So you're on your own. But what I have found is that this generates then an entrepreneurial spirit, with a very strong work ethic, in the majority (not all) but in the majority of cases. Where they will do anything they can to earn a living, and provide for their families.

I never said it was perfect, but the indicators suggest that unless the people of the US grab their own bull by the horns and pull this ship around, you're going to find yourself on socially equal terms as the people that, at least from what I see here, y'all love to berate and moan about so much.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


No not another America hating thread, I just challenge to face your own situation, but no, in this case the first reaction of that poster, was to states something that indicates his lofty position over other countries he so clearly considers to be excrement!

Surely THAT is more offensive than anything factual I have stated here, So how am I insulting the US. I am simply stating facts. The insult given here was by that post. But maybe you too agree his position that people in "poorer" countries are excrement.

Let them eat cake, did I hear someone say that!??? no must have just been my ears then!

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by James1982

 

Oh I never said that life was soo much better down there. That is where your bias self righteous views fall down.

What I said, is that while the US position is declining, RAPIDLY the mexican position is increasing, and in a far healthier state.

Biased self righteous views? Really?

Ok, lets look at biased. Is it biased to point out that there is many many more Mexicans moving to America, than Americans moving to Mexico? No, this is stating fact. Is it self righteous to state a fact? I don't see how it could be.

Maybe you could quit insulting people and your message would come across better. Until then YOU are the one acting in quite a biased self righteous fasion.

And what you said, is this: "US is more economically "third world" than Mexico"

When most anybody thinks of third world they think of quality of life, not statistical numbers. If America doesn't have quality of life better than Mexico, why are so many of them coming here? They come to live a life that most poor people HERE would consider worse, yet it is a step up to them. What does that tell you?

As for the future, postulate all you want, I don't have a bright outlook for the future of this country to be honest. But as it stands right now, I don't think anybody in their right mind would consider America more third world than Mexico.

Go to the Ford or GM website for car sales in Mexico.

They pay more for new cars in Mexico than Americans pay in our own country. Who's poor? Us.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Maybe that is because, as the adage goes, people who see things in others that they don't like within themselves do everything they can to expose the other in a vain attempt to case the light away from their own short comings.

edit on 6/3/2011 by JakiusFogg because: (no reason given)

You hit the nail right on the head.
Isn't it funny how so many people fail to see the psychology in such a situation... If we aren't considered third-world yet, we are certainly well on our way.

Thanks for posting!

reply to post by JakiusFogg


Mexico is one of the most beautiful places I have ever visited, and I've never had any bad incidents there, (except for that one time when I got lost -- and then I was quickly rescued by law enforcement before anything bad happened).

But it pleases me immensely when Mexico does well, just as it pleases me immensely when my own country does well, and it certainly does seem that is less and less these days.

I honestly don't think, however, that Mexico should be compared to the U.S.
The differences are vast in many ways. They are not us, so I don't get the point in comparing them to us.
What difference does it make? Are they basing their accomplishments on comparisons to us? Are we a standard they aspire to? I hope not.
I want Mexico to remain Mexico.

reply to post by James1982


OK, lets call it a truce on that score. Lets just say your original post was flippant in nature and mine was reactive.

My hackles were up after the excrement remark from the guy who posted above you.

And further i am more interested in discussing the actual point here.

Just to gove some background. I used Mexico as a comparison, as 1, I am familiar with this country, 2, I know a lot of Americans are too, 3, it is one that DOES revoke an emotional reaction in people, because of the bias that I do see here on ATS, and in other places. which in the main is unfounded, but does have root in stereotypes. no smoke without fire etc.

Secondly I do tend to get a bit emotional myself on this issue, as the more I look into this issue, the more I cringe at the sheer blatant theft by the banks, and the sheer apathy, and blind faith demonstrated by the US public at large.

It is the same in my home country of the UK. But if I put this up here as a UK thread, it would not have the same impact. as this is a US dominated forum.Soooo, In effort to show people and challenge them to seriously consider what is coming, not only to consider, but to actually take a leaf out of the Mexican book and do something for your own personal situation, as in fact they have done, and continue to do. and at the same time enlighten some more hard core people, that the view is screwed and that there is something that can be learned. Of anything, just so they can soften the blow when it does come.

It worked to a degree, I got the emotional reaction I was looking for, now its my job of steering you all past that

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Aha star for you, I agree with your post. And I too want Mexico to remain Mexican, and to continue developing, primarily as I live there, and my son will grow up there.

Getting lost isn't fun.

As I stated about, I am trying to look at this from a purely economic point of view. the comparison is made, based on the point that most Americans perceptions of a poor developing country is mainly reflective of the situation in Mexico.

Most Americans will have at one point come into contact with someone of that ilk, sooo it was only logical. The point is to get past that, as open the eyes to see. Look guys this is where you are heading, what they hell are you letting your country become. while at the same time showing that the embodiment of their perceptions, in relative terms is faring much better.

Culturally yes there are massive differences, however I am trying to keep this economic in nature.

reply to post by Pervius


Import duty!!! Arrr I paid 1/3 less for a Mac in Miami than I would have at home in Mexico. I am just glad the customs didn't search me that day!

But people are buying them, although Japanese cars, mainly Nissan are extremely popular.

Did you know that as of this year there will be no further Road Tax / Tenencia payable on cars to the gob.

I can only figure that as the cost of the tax is based upon the price of the car, so the newer the car (i.e. higher buy price) the higher the tax is, that the Gob want people to buy newer (safer) cars, so are making it easier to do so, without the need to pay a high road tax along with it. Good idea

is there a road tax system payable in the states? I only ask as I don't know

reply to post by JakiusFogg


My reply really wasn't emotional, just posted more in a "matter of fact" sense.

Like I said in my previous post, I'd agree with you on the direction of the US. I'm preparing for a possible collapse of society. If it comes to that, I'll be more prepared than a lot of people. If it doesn't, I'll be doing what I'm doing now. I'm neither scared nor in denial about my possible future, but focusing on the negative isn't really healthy (in my opinion )

What I would love for someone to post is a thread with straightforward steps that the common man could take to better things here, because honestly I'm at a loss. Our system of representative government doesn't leave a lot of options open. You steer the country in the direction you want by voting for who you want. When we have the lesser of two evils situation that we have had for quite some time, options are pretty limited. I really feel Ron Paul could help this nation quite a bit, but sadly I doubt he will ever get past the primaries. I am currently an Independent, so I can't vote in the primaries, but if Ron Paul runs for the Republicans I will definitely rally for him, as well as change my status to Republican just to be able to vote in the primaries. Past that, I can't think of anything else a single man can do beside try to educate others.

reply to post by JakiusFogg


Gotcha. So I'm out on the economics due to ignorance. I will say this though.......I aways look for avocados that are from Mexico; they are far and away the best.

So much for my economics. lol.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Keep reading this forum, it is mind blowing what is really going on. As a starter check out Zeitgeist addemdum, it's a good lead in. after that, if you are interested in the economic side of what is really happening to the US and the developed world for that matter, there is a lot of opinion out there, but you can;t go wrong with:

Banks = bad, socks = good!!