Breaking: Former Canadian defence minister accuses American government of cover-up

reply to post by DrHammondStoat



That's not strictly true.

He released a book in April 2010 called "Light at the end of the tunnel", the earlier chapters of which recount all of his UFO tales and opinions.

Well he is one of many who says aliens are real. But nothing is going to change for us. No disclosure no movement or anything like. So the best thing we can do is ignore it. Because if you give attention to it you want to know more about them and you want to meet them and know more of their technology history secrets f the universe their culture etc. The only thing you get from this is disappointment, hoaxes, fantasy tales, and lies.

Gosh I wish folks who discuss UFOs would stop making the same fundamental debating errors.

Just because a lot of people or majority of people think something is true does not make it true. A million times zero is still zero.

Just because someone holds a high rank or a culture's esteem does not mean something is true just because that person says so. Or that person knows what they're talking about outside their area of expertise.

Repeating a story over and over again in mantra fashion does not mean the most recent telling is more true than it was originally.

I think this old Canadian bureaucrat is just out reliving his old semi-important days when he gave speeches to large groups of people and he got to mingle with important people of his day. He, like Nick Pope, may even be still be actively trying to gather information for their governments while babbling some mush mouth double talk on the UFO circuit.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by ls1cameric

 

So there isn't 100% proof then?

Are you 10 yrs old or something?

If you want an alien to knock on your door and show you his galactic passport, no it's not gonna happen... What would you call 100% proof?



I'd like to see that one if you have a link.

How about you just do a simple search either on here or YT and i'm sure you'll find it.. I'm not gonna do your leg work...

Because the majority of them are selling books or DVD's

And your pastors, preachers and other religious folks aren't? How do you think the church was started? It was a money making machine... Yes, there are the guys out there just try to make a buck off this subject but there are also the ones that dont and truely want nothing from it but to have they're stories told so people will OPEN THEIR EYES...

It's quite obvious to me that you havnt done much homework in this field... I think if your honestly interested in the truth, you need to start digging. I've always had a fascination with the idea of aliens but never really gave it much thought until about 5 or 6 yrs ago and started looking online for answers. Theres a lot of garbage and disinfo out there but if you trust your instincts and can read through the lines, what you find might very well surprise you...

I am not sure what skeptics want from disclosure, proof? It seems like they want aliens to be like animals in a zoo. They want an attraction like an amusement park where people pay to get in, and walk by an alien underground base witnessing aliens abduct people and implant them with objects from outer space. We have physical proof that an object from outer space was implanted in a man's foot, this man claimed possible alien abduction experiences and the object was not a meteor also. It's taken the government 50 years to even discuss UFOs because they are not benevolent.

reply to post by ls1cameric


You haven't answered a single one of my questions have you?

Firstly, you know absolutely nothing about me whatsoever, what's with the "your pastors and religious leaders"??........I don't have any pastors or religious leaders!.............you have done what a lot of believers do......you have assumed things!

I too have a keen interest in this subject, and have read plenty of books and watched a lot of material, as of yet I am not 100% convinced, you however appear to be so, which is fine.

I've noticed an attitude like yours a lot here on ATS (and I've been here a long time) you seem to think because you are convinced of your beliefs that any sceptic has no right to question your claims and are somehow only worthy of your sarcasm.......well that's a shame, I asked you politely to point me in the direction of a story you mentioned.........your response speaks volumes as to the kind of member you are.

reply to post by greyer

We have physical proof that an object from outer space was implanted in a man's foot, this man claimed possible alien abduction experiences and the object was not a meteor also. It's taken the government 50 years to even discuss UFOs because they are not benevolent.

You know what?....................this is what I'm talking about!

If I ask you to back up those claims, are you going to tell me to "do my own leg work" too?

Fantastical claims demand fantastical proof!

I could tell the truth is in the middle between him and John Alexander,
why don't they meet somewhere publically to show what they really know.

I agree that if other life tried to help us and gave technologies or information to our leaders or best minds that, ultimately, it would probably be abused and the fruits of it would be confined to the best of us or the most wealthy. This happens a lot in poor countries when we give aid to them. They misuse it. I have no doubt it would happen in any country on earth if they were visited by ETs that wanted to help in some way. Abuse and exploitation are human nature so any extraterrestrial life that takes the risk of getting involved with us would have to keep this in mind.

1) All life is conscious
2) All life has value regardless of their activities or their intellect
3) Goal in life is to empower all things including yourself
4) All life uses and misuses

We can't judge on conditions. This is where the problem starts.

Life naturally produces and is happy when it's healthy and empowered. That's the lesson.

From this I also believe that the ET's abuse and misuse just as much as us. So we can't depend on them. They probably would view us as animals. We don't want to become dependent. In fact, if we want to preserve our species and cultures and distinctive characteristics, we must do it ourselves. Anytime you accept help from others, you sacrifice a bit of yourself. So in the interest of preserving what we are we should accept as little help from ETs as is possible. But sometimes when times are hard or we fall down, we can't go on without help. Where that help comes from is irrelevant.

How much we help eachother depends on our philosophy. Are we our brothers keeper? Should we give people that contribute nothing a basic quality of life? Wouldn't that encourage people to do nothing, though? Depends on what you believe peolpe will do when they're healthy and empowered. Should we treat this life like a game and those who're the best win and those who're not lose? Should it be all or nothing? What can we afford to do? What are we wasting and can we put a dollar value on love? What is love? How important is love if it's an animal or a bug? Or ET? Or dirt? Why would anyone help society or become a professional if their effort is equal to someone who does nothing and bathes in ineptitude? Is greed bad or good? Should we discourage enterprising people to protect the weak?

Whatever we see in ET that's the answer we need to grow and cultivate in ourselves. Similarly, whatever heaven is in the after-life should be made real here and now, not after we're dead.

The meaning of life what can be it and the meaning of their presence here what can be it.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by greyer

 

We have physical proof that an object from outer space was implanted in a man's foot, this man claimed possible alien abduction experiences and the object was not a meteor also. It's taken the government 50 years to even discuss UFOs because they are not benevolent.

You know what?....................this is what I'm talking about!

If I ask you to back up those claims, are you going to tell me to "do my own leg work" too?

Fantastical claims demand fantastical proof!

edit on 26/2/2011 by Argyll because: (no reason given)

7:30 - nickel/iron ratio is not of a meteorite.

Mr. Hellyer, seems to be a sensible and forthright man. But, I would like to learn more about what kind of weapons, W. Bush, had plans for attacking an alien starship. W, was crazy enough to get us into two tragic wars already. It's no suprise to me, that, that crazy dummkopf, had plans to slide us into a possible galactic war with my beloved space brothers.

reply to post by greyer


Ahh!....Dr Roger Leir!

This is the guy that does the alien implant extractions, apparently he's also a video expert,[source] he claims the infamous Turkey UFO videos "clearly show aliens"......sorry that video, and yes I watched it, all of it, does not convince me, but thanks for posting it


The problem I have is that when these so called experts go on the "circuit" they lose a lot of credibility, and when they start selling books etc. in my opinion they lose all credibillity.

If your a Dr/scientist/whatever, and you uncover genuine evidence of alien interaction with our planet, why would you think, when you have uncovered the greatest story mankind has ever known........."I know.....I'll write a book about this!...................it'll take me several months and I might make a few quid!"

If you had this information, and you were a highly regarded professional, in the field of medicine, then you would not think about monetary rewards, you would get that evidence out to the populous absolutely free of charge.........if you have the evidence , 100% evidence, then you don't need to do cheesy videos, you don't need to "work" the UFO circuit ,and you don't need to sell books......................if you've got that info, and you can prove it.....................your a made man!

Originally posted by ls1cameric
..... There are videos out there that are undeniable evidence to anyone with a logical mind of something unearthly visiting us. one of my favorites is the ISS (I think) clip of a "UFO" that gets shot at over the earth. you see this orb cruising over earth and then a big flash on the ground and immediately, the "UFO" slingshots out of the way of what appears to be a beam of energy or missile that was clearly shot towards whatever that moving object way. I've NEVER seen anyone give a plausible explanation for that one...

Ric, you're right, the prosaic explanations for the STS-48 (not ISS) zig-zag particle beam video have not been widely seen, largely because promoters of one side of the debate want to hide contrary views from their target audience -- honest folks like you. Then you can carelessly assert that if YOU haven't been shown a particular argument, such arguments do not exist.

This is my argument for the 'ordinary' (if coincidental) origin of that video:

www.jamesoberg.com...

The problem with Hellyer's opinions is that they appear based entirely on Corso's book, not on anything he learned while in the defense ministry. The most silly of those claims -- which he loyally parrots -- is the current existence of a deployed and manned 'space shield' to combat UFOs. Since I've worked in the space program, I've been able to establish to my satisfaction that everything Corso claimed (and Hellyer believed) about space activities is utter nonsense, and that any serious amateur investigator could verify the nonsensicality of.it.

Try it yourself at home.

reply to post by JimOberg


Interesting reading Jim......................so that would be a plausible explanation of the event would you say?

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by greyer

 

Ahh!....Dr Roger Leir!

This is the guy that does the alien implant extractions, apparently he's also a video expert,[source] he claims the infamous Turkey UFO videos "clearly show aliens"......sorry that video, and yes I watched it, all of it, does not convince me, but thanks for posting it

The problem I have is that when these so called experts go on the "circuit" they lose a lot of credibility, and when they start selling books etc. in my opinion they lose all credibillity.

If your a Dr/scientist/whatever, and you uncover genuine evidence of alien interaction with our planet, why would you think, when you have uncovered the greatest story mankind has ever known........."I know.....I'll write a book about this!...................it'll take me several months and I might make a few quid!"

If you had this information, and you were a highly regarded professional, in the field of medicine, then you would not think about monetary rewards, you would get that evidence out to the populous absolutely free of charge.........if you have the evidence , 100% evidence, then you don't need to do cheesy videos, you don't need to "work" the UFO circuit ,and you don't need to sell books......................if you've got that info, and you can prove it.....................your a made man!

Oh yeah, I take the information from the classic cases not too much from Dr. Leir. The Stanford Kentucky abductions, they did not involve implants as we know of but nobody had anything to gain from that event and there are really no flaws to the story, it is held as an actual truth in Stanford to this day. Then on the other side of the coin I believe Charles Hall, but the thing that always distracts me about him is that in almost every sentence in almost evey interview he starts with "as in my book in this chapter" like he is refferring to his story and not actual events. But I am believing him, I know it would be the hardest thing ever to believe our government kept secret the existence of an alien base, but the pieces of the puzzle are connecting that way.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Interesting reading Jim......................so that would be a plausible explanation of the event would you say?

Support for this explanation is also based on other facts that are deliberately withheld by the UFO promoters. The most notorious of the shuttle 'UFO videos' were all taken during a rare illumination and camera pointing condition that accentuates the appearance of small nearby drifting sunlit objects.

Ever wonder why the youtube videos so rarely specify the time/date and context of the videos? They don't WANT you to know it and enable you to make independent checks. They sabotage any serious investigation (including the most obvious gimmick -- ignore the opinions of the eyewitnesses, or even worse, fabricate false quotes).

They do it because their target audience's credulous reactions have confirmed that they can get away with it.

And they'll keep doing it as long as you let them get away with it.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by greyer

 

We have physical proof that an object from outer space was implanted in a man's foot, this man claimed possible alien abduction experiences and the object was not a meteor also. It's taken the government 50 years to even discuss UFOs because they are not benevolent.

I beleive they exist becase we have so much evidence, it's actually overwhelming.

Ex-Astronauts, Former Presidents of the USA have seen UFO's, 100's of Commercial Pilots, countless Airforce Pilots and Commanders, millions of ordinary civiliian sightings, Physicists, Nuclear Facility Officers, Police Officers, Helicopter Pilots. Hundreads of Videos and Photos. The Former Canadian Defence Minister, world goverments who openly research UFO's, Russia, Khazakstan and much much more.


You can't dismiss any of that just because you have not seen a UFO yourself.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Ever wonder why the youtube videos so rarely specify the time/date and context of the videos? They don't WANT you to know it and enable you to make independent checks.

Hi Jim,

I think you are seeing a conspiracy when mere cock-up suffices as a simpler explanation. I think you are familiar with Occam's Razor...

Sure, there are quite a few hoax videos where the hoaxer has the motive that you suggest. However, there are also many videos on youtube of real (albeit explainable) lights/objects in the sky and generally I don't think the people posting them are seeking to obstruct independent checks.

How many of the people that posted the relevant videos do you think KNEW the specific time/date and context of the videos?

How many of the people that did know those details simply could not be BOTHERED to set them out?

By the way, skeptics can be as bad as believers when it comes to failing to post the source of a video or quote. Are they also trying to obstruct independent verification?

I think you are being a tad unfair with your recent allegations of deliberate attempts by believers to make it difficult to verify a video/quote.

All the best,

Isaac

reply to post by Haydn_17


I dismiss absolutely nothing mate! and I have seen what many would describe as a UFO.
A lot of the people you quote as having witnessed UFO's, have not, as far as I know, confirmed that what they saw was extraterrestrial, merely that what they saw was "unidentified".

I firmly believe in UFO's......firmly!......however, I remain sceptical because there is not (in my opinion) sufficient proof that UFO's are alien in origin.