Do Chinese moms raise the best kids?

While driving home today, I heard an interview with Amy Chua. She recently wrote an article for the Wall Street Journal titled the same as the thread you can read in full at online.wsj.com... .

She doesn't necessarily mean only Chinese mothers, she states that she is using this term to signify super strict highly involved parents and Western mothers meaning more relaxed, go with the flow type of people. A Chinese woman can be a Western mother and vice versa. I don't know about that, but that's her story and I'm not going to get into her word choice now.

Now, she claims that the reason that stereotypically Chinese mothers produce successful over achieving children is do entirely to the way they are raised. Here are her rules to raising a successful child.
Never:
• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.

Now, after listening to her interview it really got me to thinking. If this is that standard in China, according to her, is it any wonder why America is falling behind China and the rest of the world?

I must admit that I am a super involved parent, although not as involved as Amy. I wonder though if I could learn a lesson from her. The flip side is that by stifling creative we would have deprived the world of many ideas and inventions.

One of the quotes that really struck me is:

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences.

While it may sound a little harsh, I agree. I remember just getting my pointe shoes (ballet) and it was incredibly difficult, I legs ached, and my feet were bloody from constantly going up and down to strengthen my ankles. I cried and cried and wanted to quit, but when the day came that I was seemingly effortlessly twirling around the floor it was the most fun I'd ever had all the work was not only worth it but I felt beyond rewarded.

Now, she says it all comes down to three important differences in child rearing.
1. Western mothers are too concerned with the child's self esteem and feelings. She says that Chinese parents assume their children are strong and in that they do not think twice about calling their child fat or lazy......if they are.

2. Chinese parents believe their children owe them everything, were westerns tend to believe that child owes them nothing as they didn't ask to be born.

3. Chinese parents believe they know what is best for their child and therefore they make ALL decisions for the child and often override the child's desires.

After reading this I was reminded of a friend in high school, his parents would defend them to their last dying breath, insisting the teachers treated him unfairly, that he must have some learning disability (despite all tests coming back negative), anything other than the fact that he was a burn out who NEVER opened a text book in all four years of high school, he was in fact lazy.


So ats do you think that westerners (as defined by the author) are doing not only our children but the future of country a great disservice by not being harder on the youth? We constantly discuss how "we" are being dumbed down by "them" and blame everything from the educational system to fluoride in the water. Perhaps it is time for us as parents to really look at child rearing methods as the reason why the average 8 year old knows more about the history of Spongebob than they do actual history.

Im sorry but this was one of the worst articles ever written, read, and published.

I find it funny to see Chinese and KIDS in the same sentence. Frankly it's much easier to raise a single child than to raise multiple kids, so no wonder they have a advantage.

Too bad they don't like the idea of there kid having any fun, some of us thought that's what childhood was for.

Ever wonder why the suicide rate is high in China, well here is your answer....

reply to post by pujols5


Anything you specifically object to?

Chinese moms who don't raise their children as Christians are putting the souls of their children in jeopardy and no matter how many sleepovers or play-dates or whatever they set up, it isn't going to mean anything when their children are roasting in Hell as heathens!

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I find it funny to see Chinese and KIDS in the same sentence. Frankly it's much easier to raise a single child than to raise multiple kids, so no wonder they have a advantage.

Too bad they don't like the idea of there kid having any fun, some of us thought that's what childhood was for.

Well, the author lives in the US and has two daughters. She was discussing the mentality of raising children as opposed to having to be Chinese (and living in China). Granted the title makes her sound a little full of herself or her culture, but the article I found quite interesting.

double post

I beg to differ. This video below gives you an insight on a growing problem in China: obesity. Of course, this is not to say China is as bad as the U.S. but this proves that Chinese parents are not as strict as the article makes them out to be, especially if they have to send their kid to "Fat camp" which is what the video is about. Chinese parents are no better than Western parents - a successful child is the result of a very involved parent who gives the child values, strength, education and a strong FAMILY upbringing. I do think parents should be somewhat strict but not too strict.

Originally posted by ZionSteel
Chinese moms who don't raise their children as Christians are putting the souls of their children in jeopardy and no matter how many sleepovers or play-dates or whatever they set up, it isn't going to mean anything when their children are roasting in Hell as heathens!

Well, she didn't get into what religion she practices but she mention that she would cancel Christmas and Hanukkah.....so that should please you

I know someone who is allergic to sunlight and is chinese, their mom felt that the best way to get him over his allergy was to stake him to the ground out in the sun for hours as a child. The doctors recommended avoiding prolonged exposure but she new he could overcome it with the right motivation. He has scars to most of his body from the experience.

reply to post by searching4truth


Oh my God! What kind of rubbish is that?

Parents now what is best for his child? Well no actually child knows what is best for him.

For something to be fun you have to be good at it therefore you work hard? Again BS - you have to do what you like and what you are good at. You do not use a hammer for chopping wood. Also you do not pressure a kid who is artistic and talented at it to get all A's because school totally kills creative part of a person.

Ahh... who am I trying to covince.

To conclude - Chinese have a very outdated way of thinking. But Americans have no way of thinking. Sometimes I wonder why people do not think.

I hope someday we will see a society that really knows how to raise children. Now - I am afraid I do not see it. The Chinese example is a step back. American step though is a step into abyss.

Originally posted by searching4truth
While driving home today, I heard an interview with Amy Chua. She recently wrote an article for the Wall Street Journal titled the same as the thread you can read in full at online.wsj.com... .

She doesn't necessarily mean only Chinese mothers, she states that she is using this term to signify super strict highly involved parents and Western mothers meaning more relaxed, go with the flow type of people. A Chinese woman can be a Western mother and vice versa. I don't know about that, but that's her story and I'm not going to get into her word choice now.

Now, she claims that the reason that stereotypically Chinese mothers produce successful over achieving children is do entirely to the way they are raised. Here are her rules to raising a successful child.
Never:
• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.

Now, after listening to her interview it really got me to thinking. If this is that standard in China, according to her, is it any wonder why America is falling behind China and the rest of the world?

I must admit that I am a super involved parent, although not as involved as Amy. I wonder though if I could learn a lesson from her. The flip side is that by stifling creative we would have deprived the world of many ideas and inventions.

One of the quotes that really struck me is:

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences.

While it may sound a little harsh, I agree. I remember just getting my pointe shoes (ballet) and it was incredibly difficult, I legs ached, and my feet were bloody from constantly going up and down to strengthen my ankles. I cried and cried and wanted to quit, but when the day came that I was seemingly effortlessly twirling around the floor it was the most fun I'd ever had all the work was not only worth it but I felt beyond rewarded.

Now, she says it all comes down to three important differences in child rearing.
1. Western mothers are too concerned with the child's self esteem and feelings. She says that Chinese parents are strong and in that they do not think twice about calling their child fat or lazy......if they are.

2. Chinese parents believe their children owe them everything, were westerns tend to believe that child owes them nothing as they didn't ask to be born.

3. Chinese parents believe they know what is best for their child and therefore they make ALL decisions for the child and often override the child's desires.

After reading this I was reminded of a friend in high school, his parents would defend them to their last dying breath, insisting the teachers treated him unfairly, that he must have some learning disability (despite all tests coming back negative), anything other than the fact that he was a burn out who NEVER opened a text book in all four years of high school, he was in fact lazy.


So ats do you think that westerners (as defined by the author) are doing not only our children but the future of country a great disservice by not being harder on the youth? We constantly discuss how "we" are being dumbed down by "them" and blame everything from the educational system to fluoride in the water. Perhaps it is time for us as parents to really look at child rearing methods as the reason why the average 8 year old knows more about the history of Spongebob than they do actual history.

searching4truth, I gave you a S & F for bringing this to the forefront of ATS readers and parents.

I'm a Chinese Mother raising our daughter with my American husband and his help.
One of the things she failed to mention is, most Chinese parents will not allow their Child to date or give their blessing for marriage until that child has at the very least Two Degrees and a job.

Amy Chua, is the author of the suddenly famous Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mothers. Tiger Mothers are based on the values that Chinese use to raise and educate their Children.

Here is a link to a story about her: www.huffingtonpost.com...
And some excerpts from the article.
Amy Chua, author of the suddenly infamous Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, has been under fire lately. Press reviews and online comments have condemned her parenting skills as abusive and counterproductive, though the harshest criticisms have come from other mothers. Even Chinese mothers have distanced themselves from her, insisting that their views resonate more with the Western style of parenting.

OK ( Now you have to remember, her technique is a form of Traditional Parenting in China, The way I was Raised, and I hold 3 degrees to include I'm a Doctor of Herbal Healing and Acupuncture. I'm in my last year for my degree in Accounting here.) ( Our daughter started College at age 14 and is now at age 19 getting her degree in Accounting.)

Another excerpt.: In our family, self-esteem is earned, not handed out like potato chips. Our girls have no choice: they must practice their music sometimes as long as 3 or 4 hours per day (longer if concerts and competitions are coming up). On top of their music studies, practices and performances, they must do their homework, study for tests, write papers and create science fair projects just like any other student.

If they do well, we praise. If they fail (which they do -- no one's perfect), they hear the truth from us, and we don't sugarcoat. That's not abusive. It's a gift. They may not like it, but they've learned how to use criticism to improve.

Now maybe you have an idea why the United States is behind in education,,, You have let the Government take Your Place as Your Child's Roll Model, Your child should be striving to Make You Happy,,, America, Quite giving and start taking away and start slapping that little behind more often, maybe you won't be as embarrassed the next time you go shopping!!!!!

I think it all about balance. Chinese parents obviously don't have much of that and as a result might raise financially successful kids but not necessarily emotionally successful people. By that I mean, people who are free thinkers who are not conformists and are able to live as they choose rather than do as they're told. I'm not saying western parenting is perfect, however at least it's not influenced by a communist agenda. I would take a well balanced western style any day of the week.

reply to post by exile1981



wow and i thought my parents were strict..... poor kid

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I find it funny to see Chinese and KIDS in the same sentence. Frankly it's much easier to raise a single child than to raise multiple kids, so no wonder they have a advantage.

Too bad they don't like the idea of there kid having any fun, some of us thought that's what childhood was for.

Ever wonder why the suicide rate is high in China, well here is your answer....

edit on 4-2-2011 by LDragonFire because: oops

The one child policy in China was not introduced until 1979, I'm the middle child of three, Yes, I was born long before 1979.
So,,, My Father and Mother raised three Children all of us are extremely Happy and Have Excellent Jobs and families of our own, with out divorce and we are Happy and all are working their higher education.

You mentioned the high suicide rate in China, You are So very Correct, It's Very High, Just terribly high.
The reason, Mostly because of the feeling of failure, the embarrassment to family because of failing school or getting pregnant, This is a fact that can not be denied, But, You must remember, Chinese parents Love Their Children No Less Than American Parents, We just don't want to see them Fail and Suffer For It!

Spelling

Great post, searching.

I think there definitely is a big difference between the stricter 'Chinese way' of raising kids and the western way. And of course, the different methods will produce different kids. It seems to me that raising a child by the 'Chinese method' results in smart kids with a serious minds and a great work ethic. But I wouldn't forsake the western way altogether. If I were a parent, I would find a compromise between these two extremes. As you mentioned, stifling the child's creativity, sense of adventure and expression of individuality will have some negative effects later on. And many of those rules are too oppressive, IMO.

But you're right. America IS falling behind. I think parents have gone to an extreme of indulging their kids and I think that's what's more harmful than letting them choose their instrument or spend the night at a friend's. I did like some of the rules there, but most of them I would alter.

Originally posted by searching4truth
One of the quotes that really struck me is:

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences.

While it may sound a little harsh, I agree.

I agree that if you work really hard at something you want to do, then it will be very much fun (and rewarding) when you do it well. But running through the summer rain barefoot and jumping in the puddles is FUN and you don't have to do any hard work to get good at it. We're born good at it. So, I would balance the ballet lessons with good, spontaneous fun (that you don't have to work for) to get the best of both worlds.

Now, she says it all comes down to three important differences in child rearing.
1. Western mothers are too concerned with the child's self esteem and feelings. She says that Chinese parents are strong and in that they do not think twice about calling their child fat or lazy......if they are.

I agree that western mothers are too concerned with the child's feelings, but disregarding them altogether, and calling the child fat or lazy is not 'strong', IMO, it's mean. it's just the other extreme from emotional indulgence and will definitely harm the child's psyche.

3. Chinese parents believe they know what is best for their child and therefore they make ALL decisions for the child and often override the child's desires.

It doesn't make sense to me that a child should be raised to think that his desires don't matter at all. Yes, the parent's should have the last word, but making a child who has no interest in the violin play the violin is not what's best for the child. Western parents are sometimes led around by the nose according to the child's desires, and that's not right either. I think a middle ground could be found and that is what I would strive to do as a parent.

I think parents are doing a disservice to both their children and the country. They just need to pull it back some. Like by half. Kids have everything they want, including independence from parental involvement at a younger and younger age. And that's not good for them in the long run.

Perhaps it is time for us as parents to really look at child rearing methods as the reason why the average 8 year old knows more about the history of Spongebob than they do actual history.

I think you're right.

Originally posted by ZionSteel
Chinese moms who don't raise their children as Christians are putting the souls of their children in jeopardy and no matter how many sleepovers or play-dates or whatever they set up, it isn't going to mean anything when their children are roasting in Hell as heathens!

"Religion is like a Penis.

It is great to have one.

It is great to be proud of it.

Just please do not whip it out in public and start waving it around,

And don't try to shove it down my throat."


That's all I have to say about that.

I don't think Chinese make better mothers...

Sure you have successful people coming from their families, but you have the same kind of successful people coming from other families as well.

I do not agree with the Chinese way of raising children. In my experience traditional Chinese families end up with, more often than not, two kinds of daughters: One that is narcissistic or one with an inferiority complex. So while that is anecdotal, it is my experience. You have good parents and you have bad parents regardless of cultural upbringing. Some will go crazy with it and others will parent as is necessary for the individual child.

As for problems in the western world... I think it is cultural.

In America teaching your child to have honor and respect will hamper them in business dealings. Capitalism is a pyramid and not everyone can be at the top. At the same time America is not a meritocracy. You would be better off teaching your child to capitalize on everything that happens in their life in order to ensure their success; every other successful person or entity already is.

Look at the mortgage crisis. Business no longer cares about ethics or morality. They are only concerned with legal and illegal. I argue that the divorce rate in America so high because everyday relationships are based on an exchange of resources. Hence, marriage is best used as a strategy to advance yourself. It is common, in my experience, for Eastern parents to push for these kinds of relationships while it is only the upper echelon of America that does the same.

It isn't that these people are better parents. It is that they understand the system and are able to forge more successful progeny in spite of the culture they live in.

In the U.S., at least, kids that are raised like that seem to be the ones that basically go wild after they're out of their parents' clutches. All those years of being repressed doesn't really allow them to build up a personality in my opinion, and then it all seems to come bursting out when they get some freedom.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I find it funny to see Chinese and KIDS in the same sentence. Frankly it's much easier to raise a single child than to raise multiple kids, so no wonder they have a advantage.

Too bad they don't like the idea of there kid having any fun, some of us thought that's what childhood was for.

Ever wonder why the suicide rate is high in China, well here is your answer....

edit on 4-2-2011 by LDragonFire because: oops

The suicide rate in China is nearly HALF that of the United States. Perhaps you've seen numbers that show TWICE as many suicides from the total population, but remember that China has nearly FOUR times the population of the US.