Koran: myth busted

Islam’s claim when boiled down to basics is some dude had a briefing from an angel in a cave, nobody else saw this angel or heard the briefing, people are just supposed to accept it happened

So ether it happened as advertised or mo just pulled the koran out of his ass or possibly his goat

So can we examine the koran to find out which of the two above possibilities are true – yes

The koran contains a lot of out of date science – ideas that where the current thought in mo’s time but which has long since been proven to be wrong e.g.

Flat earth.
Sun goes around the earth.
Stars are lamps in the upper atmosphere.

There are many more examples but I will focus on one
The Splitting of the moon
en.wikipedia.org...

koran 54:1 from AL-QAMAR (THE MOON)
YUSUFALI: The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.
PICKTHAL: The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.
SHAKIR: The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.

The moon is about 1/6 the size of the earth and the amount of energy needed to chop it in half would be huge and would leave clear evidence of the event in the form of a scar across the surface of the moon and the heat generated would even now be visible from the earth.
And with telescopes and moon probes and even landings we can find no evidence this happened.

Clearly no creator would make such elementary errors as found in the koran therefore its is just a story made up by mo, using a carrot (heaven) and stick (hell) to gain control over people

Koran: myth busted

Side note: christians on here are always complaining atheists never take on islam, so this thread might cheer them up.

yes i have a problem with this verse from the quran and the moon splitting . also another one is the semen production . But of all scriptures i've found quran to be most accurate even though it has a few things in it that do not agree with what we know today . But compared to bible the quran is far more accurate. I would not accept a divine relvation unless it be free from all errors . The moon and the semen are two examples of those .

Hey, Genius. I suggest you read 54:1 again:

54:1 The moment drew near, and the moon was split.

This is talking about a PROPHECY that hasn't occured yet. It's saying that as al qiyamah (judgment day) draws near, the moon will split.

It's not saying that it already happened.


Just so ya know.......

Originally posted by seedofchucky
yes i have a problem with this verse from the quran and the moon splitting . also another one is the semen production . But of all scriptures i've found quran to be most accurate even though it has a few things in it that do not agree with what we know today . But compared to bible the quran is far more accurate. I would not accept a divine relvation unless it be free from all errors . The moon and the semen are two examples of those .

Actually, you're wrong about semen production too. I suggest that you ask a medical doctor where your semen is produced. Hint: semen isn't produced in your testicles.

Sperm is produced in your testicles. Semen comes from your abdomen, like the Quran says.


Also so ya know..

Re Racasan

I would like to join the fun, and for a moment pretend I take a religionist position, using religionist argumentation.

We only see one side of the moon, so maybe the missing, cleft-apart part of it is the other non-existing half. The moon is actually a semisphere, with the curved side towards earth.

NASA postulates to the opposite is a typical atheist conspiracy, and in any case science isn't, what it's said to be, as it's not sanctioned by any holy book.

As to the ruskies confirming NASA's lies, they are still commies in disguise, and thus intrinsically untrustworthy.

reply to post by seedofchucky


Wrong is still wrong and there is much more than the moon and semen thing, don’t forget the claim is that allah told gabril to give mo the information, since that info is very wrong then the only solution is - no allah

reply to post by FalselyFlagged


[54:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[54:1] The Hour has come closer, and the moon has split.

[54:2] Then they saw a miracle; but they turned away and said, "Old magic."

[54:3] They disbelieved, followed their opinions, and adhered to their old traditions.

[54:4] Sufficient warnings have been delivered to alert them.

[54:5] Great wisdom; but all the warnings have been in vain.

[54:6] Ignore them; the day will come when the caller will announce a terrible disaster.



would "has" split not be included as past tense ? should it not be will split...?

but im curious though if anyone did see the moon split and if it means literalally speaking ... how can anyone turn a blind eye and call it old magic ? Surley such a thing would make the hardest skeptic into a believer espcially in that time ...

if its not literal then metaphorically ? perhaps the moon had a differnt orbit back then and it was fixed in place where one side would show like the above comment said ? im not sure . but i need more substance on this moon splitting thing

reply to post by FalselyFlagged


Ah the old re-write to make it fit approach

Early traditions supporting a literal interpretation are transmitted on the authority of companions of Muhammad such as Ibn Abbas, Anas bin Malik, Abdullah bin Masud and others.[2][3] According to the Indian Muslim scholar Yusuf Ali, the moon might split again when the day of judgment approaches.

reply to post by seedofchucky



Obviously you have never read the Quran.

It speaks in past tense of future events (for instance, the events that will perspire during the day of judgment itself).

But I wouldn't expect you to actually read the book that you're critiquing. That would be asking too much

reply to post by bogomil


Ok top answer – that’s a wrap lets pack up and go home

reply to post by racasan


Let's be clear.

English is a simply language where multiple meanings are groups into single words.

The translation could be off, the reference could be regional or cultural, etc.

The odds that one line in a book that size is going to debunk the whole text is pretty slim.

Religious writings are filled with metaphor and analogy to help explain the unknowable. Like the analogy that a whole lifetime of backing up may get the focus to recognize the toe of the Lord but you'll never know that full body.

The people on this planet waste so much time tearing down others. It is sad.

Debunk your own hatred, let go the need to be right. Spread love! Or don't, I don't give a...

Peace

Why is it that all religious texts somehow have to be taken as literal texts in order to have any value? More than likely, the bible/koran were taken from Sumerian/Babylonian texts and then changed / altered / interpretted and spread. The Sumerians have an Adam / Eve story as well....long before the Bible came to be. Just as the story about Noah and the Great Flood...many religious texts and historical records also mention this flood....what differs is whether or not a guy named Noah built an ark and herded animals to safety.

If you go back and read some of the quotes from the Haiti earthquake, you will see stories about the whole world shaking, some saying that Haiti is being punished by God, that the Earth merely trembled and the trembling wouldn't stop for what seemed like days....

Now, the above are examples of how people perceived what was happening during and after the earthquake. It doesn't necessarily mean that God is angry...nor did the earth really shake for days (intermittently, yes)....however, the earthquake DID happen.

You can not dismiss the validity of any ancient text -- the Bible, Koran, et al -- simply because one believes aspects of it to be impossible. For example, when texts refer to the Gods hurling balls of fire through the sky in anger....it's quite possible that they were looking at comets or meteor showers, etc. It doesn't mean that they didn't see something....it just means they had their own reasons for believing why it did.

Very few will argue that Jesus never existed. Rather, what meaning his life actually had, if any, is up for great debate.

Who knows? We sit here and ponder whether certain earthquakes are caused by HAARP, weapon testing, etc....for all we know 2500 years from now we are going to look like crackpots pulling stuff out of thin air that will seem impossible to have occurred in that time.

People are so quick to dismiss knowledge passed down from years ago simply because a belief in aspects of it somehow translates to an all-encompassing devotion of your life to its teachings.

Further, the notion that any text that contains information "proven" to be not true somehow translates into an entire text being untrue and worthless is mind-boggling to me. Our history books are riddled with inaccuracies and differ from history books around the world that teach the exact same historical events. Think it means these events never transpired? Nope....it just means that the area in which these books are taught are trying to get their particular sect to remember it a certain way.

It very well could be that, like today, "moon" is used allegorically to indicated exposing one's butt. This verse makes much more sense in this context.

Originally posted by FalselyFlagged
reply to post by seedofchucky

 

Obviously you have never read the Quran.

It speaks in past tense of future events (for instance, the events that will perspire during the day of judgment itself).

But I wouldn't expect you to actually read the book that you're critiquing. That would be asking too much

oh okay

[60:2] Whenever they encounter you, they treat you as enemies, and hurt you with their hands and tongues. They want you to disbelieve. - past tense of future events...

[60:13] O you who believe, do not befriend people with whom GOD is angry, and who are hopelessly stuck in disbelief; they are just as hopeless as the disbelievers who are already in the graves. ....past tense of future events


[20:9] Have you noted the history of Moses? - no i havnt because this is a past tense of future events ......


[20:10] When he saw a fire, he said to his family, "Stay here. I have seen a fire. Maybe I can bring you some of it, or find some guidance at the fire." - no fire ... its paste tense of future events.....


[20:12] "I am your Lord; remove your sandals. You are in the sacred valley, Tuwaa.....past tense of future events....


[33:2] Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you all do....follow it now or later??? past tense of future events??


[33:28] O prophet, say to your wives, "If you are seeking this life and its vanities, then let me compensate you and allow you to go amicably....past tense of future events?? i thought this happened already but im silly person who hasnt read the quran right?





[43:7] Every time a prophet went to them, they ridiculed him
.....past tense future events.........?


[43:36] Anyone who disregards the message of the Most Gracious, we appoint a devil to be his constant companion


Do i have a devil as a companion ? is this in past sense future events too?

reply to post by zroth


Well I did say in my intro there are many other errors in the koran and these errors are based around science as it was understood in that time – flat earth, lamps for stars ect

Also the koran claims to be allah last word to humans – translation errors from such an alleged entity are very weak excuse

But just to be clear it’s possible to hate islam and love muslims, can trying to bust my fellow humans out of the mind prison of islam be bad?

reply to post by seedofchucky


Hmm, you have a problem with assumptions, my friend. I never said that all instances of past tense were in reference to future events. I said some of them are. Again, this is undeniable if you actually read the quran. But you didn't.

I suggest that you search for instances where the quran talks about judgement day (obviously a future event), to see what I'm talking about. I'm not gonna do your homework for you. But also I suggest that you do not necessarily trust English translations as if they are 100% direct. The Quran was not written in English. It's written in ancient arabic (which is sometimes rather cryptic sounding when translated directly). Many translators "simply" it so that it "makes more sense" in English.

If you really want to go, I suggest you try a site that has some literal translations, along with looser translations to compare (like quranix.com) if you want to get a better assay.

However, you are showing your prejudice by setting up a straw man argument to knock down with your inane logic.

Peace.

Originally posted by racasan
can trying to bust my fellow humans out of the mind prison of islam be bad?

I get it. Personally I feel the goal should include all of the brainwashed by group religions/corporations not just singling out one.

Originally posted by FalselyFlagged
reply to post by seedofchucky

 

Hmm, you have a problem with assumptions, my friend. I never said that all instances of past tense were in reference to future events. I said some of them are. Again, this is undeniable if you actually read the quran. But you didn't.

I suggest that you search for instances where the quran talks about judgement day (obviously a future event), to see what I'm talking about. I'm not gonna do your homework for you. But also I suggest that you do not necessarily trust English translations as if they are 100% direct. The Quran was not written in English. It's written in ancient arabic (which is sometimes rather cryptic sounding when translated directly). Many translators "simply" it so that it "makes more sense" in English.

If you really want to go, I suggest you try a site that has some literal translations, along with looser translations to compare (like quranix.com) if you want to get a better assay.

However, you are showing your prejudice by setting up a straw man argument to knock down with your inane logic.

Peace.

edit on 4-2-2011 by FalselyFlagged because: (no reason given)

just wanted to verify this is an instance of cherry picking quotes to suit your intrest. ty for proving my point good day to you


btw i use submission.org quran only website . no silly hadiths only whats in quran .

The OP is clutching at straws by using one example regarding the day of judgement (end times) prophesy.

debunk the following from the Qur'an:

"And it is We who have built the universe with (Our creative) power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it." - 51:47


So The Qur'an, recited by Muhammad between 610-632AD, states that the Universe is expanding!

Though the accepted 'expanding universe' theory from hubble, et al; are from what date (circa 1920s)?

Why would people believe something split the moon? Am i reading this wrong here?