If you say it, own it

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by redoubt

 

I certainly don't disagree that people have a right to speak...it's more how they do it and do with it. Lying? Umm...does one really have a "right" to do that? Denying what we all know we heard or saw? ll I'm saying is OWN what you say.

Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

edit on 1/22/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

Thank you... that is exactly where I was going next.

We have today become a culture without an ounce of responsibility to ourselves, our kids or others. Thus, there is no surprise that people have become almost completely withdrawn and unable to cope with anything from personal, one-on-one contact to teaching children the most basic lessons in respect for others.

We are all strangers in a world of billions. Add to that horrible fracturing the behavior of our leadership... and the very foundations of society begin to crack.

I wholeheartedly agree that we should accept ownership for our own words and deeds. Even in that ye olde tavern brawl that gave birth to our nation, there was honor and respect... where today there is none of either.

reply to post by redoubt

Too true. The link that ladyinwaiting posted for ownwhatyourthink sort of alludes to the notion that the relative anonymity of the web might be if not causing then at least contributing to behavior that tosses aside ownership and responsibility and maybe to a certain degree critical thinking. Is it easier to be rude to someone when you're not face to face and don't have to deal with the consequences if you don't want to?

You bet. So while this world of technology is allowing us to put so many heads together and meet so many new people, we're not always treating those people with the same respect we would treat someone we were in the same room with. Seems that a lot of people fire off missives that they never expect to have to answer to, so they get sloppy about what they say. And then it becomes a habit.

reply to post by redoubt

Even in that ye olde tavern brawl that gave birth to our nation, there was honor and respect... where today there is none of either.

I could not agree more. The founders of our nation were a rare breed. Unfortunately we have even fewer of their kind in our nation today. You can look back to the 1960's and really see where the changes started. There were some good changes, but there were also quite a few bad ones and the bad ones are becoming terminal for this nation.

The modern theatre of politics is just another example of the oppressive "divide and rule" hypnosis. The ego needs validation that it is worth something. It chases opportunities for empowerment. Being right, in the face of opposition is empowering. Nothing new about this at all. I think the Romans invented this politico/military strategy. Most "Abrahamic" societies have suffered as a result of this throughout history. These days the whole world is at it, has been for centuries i suppose... we must research my friend, sometimes these absurd theatrics are deeper than they appear.

What is truth?

If I strap a bomb to myself believing that 17 virgins will await me, is that true?

If I'm a father, trying to raise a family, and a suicide bomber kills them all, and I believe it was an act of god, is that true?

Do beliefs equal truth?

And who can say what the truth is? I think the subject is more complex than you think

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Great freakin post OP.

You know, children, when caught in a fib or doing something wrong, might at first try to deny that they did it and then maybe try to deflect the blame or show the unfairness of it all (they got caught but so-and-so didn't).

I read an article about soul age once, and it mentioned a theory that resonated with me. The writer argued young souls will often get into politics, big business, and anything that can make you really famous and popular. Thus, the world is essentially run by young souls who are extremely controlling but very naive, and everything we watch and listen to is polluted with their childish and unethical influences.

reply to post by WhizPhiz

Thank you, WhizPhiz. Love the soul age angle...a very interesting theory and different kind of spin on it.

# 1)

No one owns words or ideas, we can all use them freely. So no thank you, I will not be taking possession of any words or ideas.

# 2)

Changing your mind is not flip flopping, it is a positive good thing. It's called learning you were wrong and changing your ideas to reflect the new information.

# 3)

Most people telling me to own my words, are the same people who take what I say way out of context and try to twist it into a personal attack.


Nice try, but no cookies.
No one should ever own a word or idea. It should be freely passed around.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Owning it means taking responsibility for what you've said. Being able to defend or explain your position if asked to...to be able and willing to back it up and to have open communication about it. That's about it, really.

If you're not willing to own what you say, what's the result?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Owning it means taking responsibility for what you've said. Being able to defend or explain your position if asked to...to be willing to back it up and have open communication about it. That's all really.

In a real-life, person-to-person situation, this is nothing more or less than is expected.
It should extend into the electronic spaces as well.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Owning it means taking responsibility for what you've said. Being able to defend or explain your position if asked to...to be willing to back it up and have open communication about it. That's all really.

Oh you mean, to not lie or be deceptive.

Oh I agree 100%.

But if someone changes their mind legitimately, by admitting they were wrong, this should be considered a noble act of honesty.

reply to post by muzzleflash

Lying about what you said or denying it...that's it, simply put. My original question was why do we tolerate this so much these days.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think anyone in the thread so far has said changing your mind is a bad thing In fact quite the opposite...it's pretty admirable to be able to do it, and there are tons of perfectly valid reasons for it. Sorry if something wasn't clear or if I misinterpreted your last post.

Nice post OP.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

Great freakin post OP.

You know, children, when caught in a fib or doing something wrong, might at first try to deny that they did it and then maybe try to deflect the blame or show the unfairness of it all (they got caught but so-and-so didn't).

I read an article about soul age once, and it mentioned a theory that resonated with me. The writer argued young souls will often get into politics, big business, and anything that can make you really famous and popular. Thus, the world is essentially run by young souls who are extremely controlling but very naive, and everything we watch and listen to is polluted with their childish and unethical influences.

Wow. I totally agree with this. I believe all souls are at different stages of learning and yes young souls do tend to live the way you described because they still need to learn the appropriate lessons. What we as a people have to do is "accept" where these people are at.

On topic: I think your right about owning what you say OP. I also think that when we speak, we can speak with thought intention, and also without. Putting thought into what you say IMO gives your words energy and therefore can result in a physical outcome. Without thinking about what you say or putting no thought or energy into your words, then they basically mean nothing.

On the changing your mind topic, I think it is a very good thing being able to change your mind. Especially if you've found new information which tells you what you previously knew was wrong.

Peace 2 all

reply to post by ~Lucidity


There has been a lot of rhetorical bashing in the realm of the political world, though I don't personally think it is so hurtful that one has to "Rectify" or "Re-institute" new laws and other acts to answer to an opposing side of discussion and ideals. If a person in government or even your neighbor for that fact, has such a turmoil-ed self absorbed intuition as to make it a blood thirst for correctness, the discussion is no longer fruitful or digestible by either side for commentary.
Education is intentionally being lost for future events and plans, how do I know this, I have never heard or have never seen so much hogwash by way of the USA government and some MSM corespondents ever in my life. As you said before "Say what you mean and mean what you say" is exactly how the PTB want us to translate what is going on as "Business as usual" and fail to remember that "WE" are there constituents of these matters.
As for the "Children" thing by way of though processes, I do see your impeccable point, "Front and Center" with out a doubt. But when it comes to childish responses and rhetorical implications? It is a failure to know where and understand where blame and accountability truly belong when they refuse to be humbled by the facts at hand.
I have never, and I mean "NEVER" ever voted! Not for anything or anyone. The probability of my vote counting would be short lived until after the fact it was all smoke and mirror's for the incumbent that wished for the position so bad anyways. I have my personal thoughts, and I don't like sharing them with people during these discussions because the first argument or statement they have is targeted around "What the hell should you care for anyway? You didn't even vote!" and that, my friend, leads to a very aggressive "ME" which is what I refuse to become. In other words "I say what I mean and mean what I say with total understanding of what and why I have done what I have done." And just for the record, I have voting rights, no felonies or anything to keep me from voting, just don't have the time to waste on tall tales of preservation and "Assumed" cures for the countries ill's. It is a waste of intellectual time for someone like me.
Your OP was an attention getter for me, I have been pondering my two daughter's futures and where my business has been heading, not to mention other bureaucratically local crap breathing down my neck with restraints and such high hurdles that they (The PTB's) could not even stride that high with such outrageous expectations with absolutely nothing in their minds other than their own perceptions of how "I" should do what I need to do to get thing's done correctly, efficiently and most of all "Respectfully".
"Let 'em fight it out" they are no more concerned for me than I am they will ever give our money back for the past 300 years of blood sweat and tears.
S&F!! This is all BS, funny thing is that they think we are stupid or not paying attention. Makes us individuals who want to strive and succeed to want to be or have nothing to do with their little cronies and clicks by way of our contract fed by a thing called the "Constitution" of the United States of America.

reply to post by Hazz-14

Thanks. Putting no energy, as in merely repeating what's, say scripted for you, or what you've simply heard someone else say and not digested, researched, and made your own?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Hazz-14

 

Thanks. Putting no energy, as in merely repeating what's, say scripted for you, or what you've simply heard someone else say and not digested, researched, and made your own?

Thanks for the reply. What i was trying to explain was basically the power of thought.
Energy as in universal energy. Positive/negative.
We all resonate energy throughout the universe, so when you build up energy through thought then speak, i know it sounds weird, but not only will your words be felt, but they will also have consequences, positive or negative (depending on your energy output). Therefore if you speak with no energy (positive/negative) through thought, then your words mean nothing. Not in a bad way, they just don't have any universal energies behind them, therefore garnering no repercussions in any way.

reply to post by Allred5923

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Allred Stepping aside and letting the extremists fight it out is a thought that often crosses my mind too. The thing for me though is that it's everywhere and I sometimes have a hard time tuning out. And then too, I get concerned that if too many do just tune out, this will become the norm and a reflection of our society as a whole .So I still think about it and still chime in now and then and still vote to lend my support in case one day there's a mass consciousness shift toward what I view as logic and sanity. It certainly does get tiresome that anytime you post an open and honest opinion about something, you get labeled derisively by one "side" or the other and get spoonfed their version of why you suck, usually at the expense of no one really listening or attempting to understand what you're struggling to say Then to add insult to injury, to get lies and denial from the same just makes a person want to disengage entirely. But if we don't all speak out, not matter what our views, the extremists and those who will say and do whatever it takes to win will win.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


95% of everything we watch on TV, cable, newspapers, movies, magazines, etc., are controlled mostly by 5 companies--Rupert Murdoch being a heavy hitter. But the problem is also more down to earth in my humble opinion. I come from a formal education in media, and one only sit for a few minutes in a journalism department to see another problem. I remember the first time I walked in to the journalism department of a major university and listened to the pseudo-intelligent, ego-centric, meaningless blabber pouring out of student, “journalist’s,” mouths. I went to college classes with these people. They weren’t concerned about profound topics--no one I knew anyway. And if there were any that were, the editor, both in school and in the real world would quickly squash that mentality and tell them to get their page 9 story done.

Another example of my point, can be seen with Angela Joiner who covered the Stephenville, Texas UFO events. She was pressured to stop reporting on this, and get back to the local softball games & PTA meetings.

But, do people care more about American Idol & ESPN or about the alien presence, a completely corrupt Congress, and the failure of the American family? I dare say American Idol & ESPN would win hands down.

So we have a problem within, and without. We’re pretty much screwed as a society. Look at our families . . . look at the kids who come from these families. Jesus.

The solution? I have no one solution. However, I have an approach. And it’s called SHAME. People need to be shamed. Because, in my opinion, we got here because of people’s petty egos--allowing themselves to go with the bully in the room. I openly make fun of anyone who mentions they watch CNN or Fox News. I am merciless. And when the few ask, “Well, where do you get your news?” My response, “Not on there, and if you haven’t figured that out yet, that’s not good.” Then I tell them to pull their head out of their butt, use some discretion, and start getting their news from the last bastion of information--the internet.

reply to post by YourMomLied

Thanks for your comments. Yes, true, investigative or embedded journalism is virtually non-existent on television anymore. There's just not enough bang for the buck...much easier to get that with sensationalist punditry.

There probably really are no solutions here, as you stated, other to maybe keep challenging those who flat out lie and then deny it to our for their facts and to keep pointing out their moral and ethical deficiencies. This thought becomes rather hard to do when you're only human too and they switch to diversion...replying by pointing out how the "other" side does or or worse yet. pointing out tat you're clearly of the "other" side, and we typically get tired and drop it at that.

Ah...yes...the internet for your "news"...fraught with millions of examples of this very thing repeated ad nauseum and probably worse that the broadcasts and with even less accountability. Problem there is people don't always know who to trust.

I guess the best we can hope for is to keep trying to be heard and to set an example as best we can by being truthful and responsible to the very best of our ability?

P.S. Your name is kind of amusing, considering the topic. I'm one mom who tries very, very hard not to lie.

When we speak lies, knowingly, we are lying to ourselves. When we lie to ourselves we fracture that moral code within that makes us Honest.

To use Media personalities or politicians as the example is square-on to pointing out Liars, but for the real Human, the one with their morals still intact because they are "unknowingly" spewing lies based on the "personalities" they are incorporating into their fundamentals, could be further from the truth.

Eventually the individual can find the truth out of the lies, and then if they do not "own it" and openly admit their fault then they too fracture the moral code within and are no longer Honest.

Sadly, until the individual can speak the truth and accept the truth, as they know it, they are lost Souls in my book, and in a few other books that they too have read, I am sure! None of us are without fault, but we can "own it", and take a better approach in this short lifetime.

I have often believed that this very key point is the determining factor that People really do not believe in GOD! Otherwise why would someone do such a horrible thing to their Souls. Sad, really sad, time to turn off the TV and tell anyone asking for your vote or support that you only support the Truth. S&F