It's illegal for the TSA to ask you for ID when flying, and they know it?

I'm posting this more for confirmation rather than anything else, as i am not as clued up on the whole TSA airport saga as some of you here.

I've just been reading a pdf of Official Meeting Minutes, DHS Data Privacy And Integrity Advisory Committee: dated June 7, 2006. Yes i know it is a few years back but the pdf is discussing privacy and also travelling rights of the US citizen. I would like to know if what i am about to show you is still the case?

What caught my interest begins on page 58 of this 79 page document. They introduce a guy called John Gilmore, an entrepreneur and civil libertarian.

He talks for a while about the rights of the US citizen, then goes on to talk about the DHS and the TSA, specifically regarding airport security and ID needed to fly. Then on page 60 it gets even more interesting.

Here is an extract, and i'll let you survey the rest for yourselves...the highlighted extracts are were highlighted by me as this was the main bits that caught my attention....

What about the right every person to be able to read and know what the laws are?
The published regulations from the General Services Administration about federal
buildings say theyʹre open to the public during business hours. Thereʹs no mention of IDs.

But the guards who work for DHS enforce the secret law.

There is no published regulation or law that requires ID on trains, buses, ferries, or
planes. Yet 99 percent of passengers have to show an ID to get onboard. The judges in the
Gilmore versus Gonzales case announced in their opinion that TSA doesnʹt actually
require ID to fly. So what that means is the signs in the airport that TSA put up are all lies.
The airline employees are ordered to lie to the passengers that ID is a requirement.

Well, the citizens donʹt know what it says either, so they can hardly contest it.
When this news came out of the court, and reporters, some of whom are in this roomcalled up TSA and said, ʺSo whatʹs with the signs in airports, why do they lie?ʺ The TSA spokesman said off the record, ʺOh, theyʹre lying to passengers so that TSA will have to do fewer physical searches.ʺ

Link to pdf or the full minutes... www.dhs.gov...

Is this old news to people here?

If the TSA were lieing back then, is it still going on today?

I just thought it was worth asking as it has been quite a big subject lately.

Thanks for taking a look.

CX.

reply to post by CX


Ehhhh not quite.... A drivers license is required if you want to drive a vehicle, and state ID's are issued if you dont want to drive but do need to use government services / local services that require personal ID's. While you are not required to have any ID, if a private business requires it then you have the choice of complying or doing business elsewhere.

Thre is no law that I am aware of that requires a person to show ID in order to board a train, plane etc. However, the companies operating those areas are private with FEderal oversight. If you dont want to show an ID in order to board a Southwest airlines flight, then they don thave to allow you on board.

Also, of all the times I have flown, I hve never been ID'd by TSA. I have had to show it to the ticket agents though before getting my ticket and going through security.

reply to post by CX


That's it! I'm done! Is this how stupid we have become. You know, when I joined this site I was truly interested. I thought that I would encounter people who saw things going on in the world that they found concerning, and that they wanted to see changed. But nope, it's people who don't want to show ID before they get on a plane. And this is new? I've been flying for a long time, long before the TSA came about, but now all the sudden the TSA is enforcing a hidden secret law in an evil agenda to see our IDs. Yep, it's all a master cabal to blame the Tucson shooting on an innocent patsy which we know because they won't immediately release the tapes of carnage for our twisted fascinations! Great job! You win! Fight the man!!! Fight him! How dare you ask for my ID! Fascist!

Ludicrous, ridiculous, dumb, idiotic, stupid...adios!

reply to post by robinmorningstar


Lol relax will ya....i can't do CPR over the web.

Remember i said that i was not sure if this was the case, this thread is more for confirmation on my part so it may not be true yet.

Plus i said it was from a few years back, so no it's not new.

Lol, i honestly had visions of your head doing that thing from Scanners then.

CX.

reply to post by robinmorningstar


you are rediculous, not once did he say he opposed showing his id, and you go ahead and judge him and the whole site for simply asking a question and providing a source regarding his question.

ill be glad you leave, we dont need people throwing cyber tantrums on our forums

good bye and good ridence

Passports are required for traveling on planes. And I'm sure the law has changed significantly over the past few years if not months since 2006 to accommodate the TSA.

www.tsa.gov...

(Government issued ID I would think means passport, but who knows, eh America?)

news.cnet.com...

www.flyertalk.com...

www.pixiq.com...

these links (especially the last) show that there is no law requiring you to show your ID, but they are plenty to punish if you should refuse to. Not having the actual law is just so that the US does not look too much like Nazi Germany or Israel.


EDIT: These are some useful quotes from the last article:



"An airline can require ID. The real concern with airport ID requirements is when the *federal government* requires ID in order to travel. Americans have the right to travel freely between the states without “showing their papers” to the federal government. See:

en.wikipedia.org..."

and

"With the laws that are currently on the books the only time you are required to show your ID at the airport, to gain entry into the sterile area, is if the TSA fails to return your Secure Flight information to the airline in time.

In that case and only in that case are you required by statute to show your ID and that is to the AIRLINE, not the TSA. (Title 49 § 1540.5 , § 1540.107 , §1560.105)"



EDIT 2: Also, I don't think TSA employees know this. As we have seen plenty of times in videos and flier testimonies with their experiences with TSA this is true, and even if you enlighten them, it does not matter. Just go with the flow so you don't get yourself into pointless trouble, or boycott air travel completely and riot outside the airports.

Sorry but you have been here what, a month? This site is much better without angry little people like yourself.
Don't let the door hit you when you leave.

I for one am happy that the op was made, I had no idea about this and all information is knowledge. Besides the OP was simply asking whether or not this is still the case.
I find anything regarding our civil liberties should be read and understood so that people are well aware of their rights and that they are not abused.

Thanks op peace

reply to post by asperetty


Duh! And how do you GET a passport WITHOUT your ID? Somewhere along the line you have to I.D. yourself....or walk.

The ID requirement is not a mandate by The TSA as they only went online in 2001 and the requirement to show ID before you board a plane was in place long before 9/11 so with that in mind the entity whose requirement it is The Dept of Homeland Security as they are the direct oversight entity to The TSA.

Inititally when air travel started all you needed was an id to confirm your tickets and luggage but thanks to DB Cooper air travel has been more restricted.

The pat downs by The TSA are not illegal either as they should not be using that oppourtunity to cop a feel or molest the target as that is a violation of their charter and you can bring a report to a supervisor. A little fact that very few actually know is that every TSA scanning station in every airport has no less then 50 cameras placed on it at any point in time and all you have to do is get your lawyer to file a decree with the TSA and the authority charged with the airport for release of the security tapes. They tell the truth.

Besides, the ID requirement nowadays is merely to confirm without a shadow of doubt that the name on the ticket matches who is about to board the plane so that if something happens any phone or contact numbers linked to that either credit card or pay service can identify the families of the recently deceadent on a worse case. They are your tickets you bought with your hard earned money and require protection of identity when you fly. They need to make sure you are who you say you are and to make sure that no members of any radicalia factions are allowed to board.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Well of course...the government is not going to issue a government ID in the form of an international passport to someone who is not one its own citizens...

The question is, why is the government getting involved in private matters? Air travel is a private business, so shouldn't the airline be responsible for their passengers?

Originally posted by asperetty
reply to post by mysterioustranger

 

Well of course...the government is not going to issue a government ID in the form of an international passport to someone who is not one its own citizens...

The question is, why is the government getting involved in private matters? Air travel is a private business, so shouldn't the airline be responsible for their passengers?

edit on 20-1-2011 by asperetty because: (no reason given)

Air travel is a matter for Govt concern whereas you need to know who's coming into your nation and who is not. Since it is also a terminal of transportation makes it under the direct jurisdiction of The Federal Govt itself and will not ever be under the control of a private enterprise. Private enterprise pertaining to a very highly sensitive aspect of our overall infastructure where it can be used as a potential avenue to circumvent any portion of something called the "National Security Infastructure" to prevent a hijacking that leads to a 9/11 style event. It's widely accepted that if current scanning and security procedures that are in place right now would've been in place prior to 9/11 that the event would not have occured as every eyeball attatched to a scanner is trained in visually identifing explosives packed witin sealed and enclosed suitcases and luggage. I went on a plane with an umbrella and even that has to be ran through the scanner without incident.

A national ID card of sorts is in play in every single state who has added a barcode or swipebar to the backs of the cards as all that has to be done is to scan that to confirm the volidity or authenticity of the ID itself. Eventually expect to see a credit card swipe machine style device standing near the xrays with the conveyor belt as all they have to do is scan the card and your file pops up. This is not an intrusion, just an enhancement plan to current policy.

Airlines are private businesses. And as such, they do reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. If they want to refuse you the privilege of flying for not showing them your ID, they can do so.

Maybe they didn't like the idea of douche bags hijacking or blowing up their planes. Maybe they don't want to let some wanted criminal fly to a non-extradition country on their aircraft.

If the 10 seconds it takes for them to match your ID to your plane tickets is too much, don't fly. All of your information is already in the system from when you BOUGHT THE TICKET IN THE FIRST PLACE. Name, address, credit card number. They got it. You gave it to them. Why is showing information they already have such an issue?

This a something Ive seen coming for awhile now.

I have a background in Corporate Security, Search and Rescue, FEMA and Homeland Security...all currently. Ive begun to notice I.D's necessary everywhere. Well, almost. You even need an I.D to rent movies, join a gym etc.
Ive noticed it more and more across the board in a lot of things. More so than before.

There was an Underground Comix in the "60s" called "The further adventures of Jesus!". He comes back to save the world, is hitchiking, has long hair and beard, wearing sandals and a robe...and is stopped by police on the side of the road. He gets thrown in jail because he doesnt have any ID and thats required everywhere.EVERY-WHERE.

He tells them he's the Son of God here to save the world and they respond with "Yeah! Right! Wheres your drivers license?" He replies he doesnt need any I.D because he's the Savior of Mankind. The police laugh and tell him theres a lot of nuts out there saying they are Jesus. So "Lets see your I.D."!.

It sounds funny but it shows the irony in having to produce identification. I think the new Government Bar Code ID is the "mark of the beast".

FEMA has issued me a new one, so Im already tagged.....