The God of the gaps

I wrote this as a reply in a thread. I hope this will help most of you who differ with me so vehemently to know exactly where I'm coming from with all that I try to do in this forum. I do have a goal.

Mr.XYZ

A scientist will come up with some crazy hypothesis and will test it...tons of times he'll be wrong and the hypothesis will lead nowhere. But sometimes, they are successful and can develop a theory. Other scientists then add to the theory or expand it. But they won't claim something to be proven until it is.

This is the thing right here that I, of limited knowledge admitedly, do appreciate. All the testing and starting over,
back to the drawing board so to speaks. I can't help but wonder, how far science would be along, if mankind still had a relationship with the, "God of the gaps". Instead of all this hypothesis, trial and error. What if scientists had a source they could go to with all the questions they have. "The God of the gaps". This is what we lack and what I wish more academics would realise. We once had access to all the information we now seek.
edit on 9-1-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason

reply to post by randyvs


The issue is that "God of the Gaps" is pretty much a term used in criticism of theistic leaders who, lacking answers, claimed that "God did it" and thereby discouraged the pursuit of knowledge. Later, this led to the situation where theists object to scientific findings not because they are flawed, but because they chip away further at the diminished role of such a god.

In all fairness, a god of the gaps has become not only a way to promote ignorance (through the implication that the pursuit of knowledge is unnecessary, because "God did it") but, ultimately, a way to kill destroy your god.

Faith and religion are supposed to give us an explanation of reason, or purpose. Mechanism, which does not make assumptions regarding purpose, is the domain of science.

A God of the gaps only lasts until the puzzle is filled in. Far safer, surely, for God to be the picture in the puzzle?

Take a look at the world during the Middle Ages. That's pretty much where we'd still be if all we did was rely on god to provide our answers for us instead of us taking the initiative.
I believe that if god does exist, he would want us to question everything, to investigate and find out.

Originally posted by sykickvision
Take a look at the world during the Middle Ages. That's pretty much where we'd still be if all we did was rely on god to provide our answers for us instead of us taking the initiative.
I believe that if god does exist, he would want us to question everything, to investigate and find out.

I'm not so sure you get what I'm implying here. If we still had a relationship with the one most knowledgeable person in the universe. Their would never have been a dark age in the first place.

Both history and scripture point to the idea that god, if existing, and organized religion would keep us ignorant of the natural world rather than just hand us the secrets of the universe. Only through objective science have we come this far.

Originally posted by PieKeeper
Both history and scripture point to the idea that god, if existing, and organized religion would keep us ignorant of the natural world rather than just hand us the secrets of the universe. Only through objective science have we come this far.

Agreed absolutly. Under the present circumstances this is all we have. All we know. Have you in your given large capacity for knowledge the ability to imagine that this might not be what was intended. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? To see and understand that the world as we know it is hardly what was meant. Do you ever get the feeling that if we had a guide that things would be much better? Far more easier?

Please tell me you do not just play at words with me.

reply to post by randyvs

We once had access to all the information we now seek.

We never had access to all the information we now seek. When we look at history whether through archeology or written records we see no evidence that the ancients were more advanced or had access to better information than the scientific method has yielded. We see quite the opposite in fact, people lived in generally squalid primitive conditions for thousands upon thousands of years and only in the last few centuries has civilization really taken off thanks primarily to a reliance on the scientific method.

Having access to all information could prove dangerous in the wrong hands but I suppose if EVERYONE knew everything it would even the playing field. If there truly is a God out there and he loves us one has to wonder why he hasn't, at the very least, allowed us to cure cancer or AIDS or any of the other diseases. It seems to me that the human race is, for better or worse, on its own.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by randyvs

 

We once had access to all the information we now seek.

We never had access to all the information we now seek. When we look at history whether through archeology or written records we see no evidence that the ancients were more advanced or had access to better information than the scientific method has yielded. We see quite the opposite in fact, people lived in generally squalid primitive conditions for thousands upon thousands of years and only in the last few centuries has civilization really taken off thanks primarily to a reliance on the scientific method.

Having access to all information could prove dangerous in the wrong hands but I suppose if EVERYONE knew everything it would even the playing field. If there truly is a God out there and he loves us one has to wonder why he hasn't, at the very least, allowed us to cure cancer or AIDS or any of the other diseases. It seems to me that the human race is, for better or worse, on its own.

Absolutly no doubt Titen. We are "on our own" sadly though, in my view and how nice it is to hear from you .
That's what I want to say to you guys though . I don't think we we're meant to be on our own. We have chosen this and that's why the things you mentioned, Cancer, Aids, remain a curse. I know I've touched on this before with you.I'm sure you remember.

reply to post by randyvs

Meaning what? Accept prayer as a valid element of experimental procedure? Just pray to God for the information we lack?

Doesn't work, does it?

reply to post by randyvs


If we still substituted true knowledge with religious belief, we'd probably still believe the following:

- Flat earth (possibly resting on the back of a crocodile floating in a lilly pond that's being held up by 4 trees of different color...which is what the Mayans believed)

- Comets are a sign of god.

- Fire is a sign of god.

- Gays are evil.

- Sorcery is evil and people using it should be killed...and since everything we can't explain could be interpreted as sorcery, you can kill people at will.

- Shrimps are an abomination, lol.

- People survive in whales for days...

- There was a global flood (even though we have no scientific evidence of it)

- Infidels need to die (or be converted)

...and I could go on with that list for ages. Religion doesn't present true knowledge and I don't think you understand what god of the gaps means if you're seriously asking for more of it.

It means you are filling gaps in true scientific knowledge (example: How life started) with pure magic based on BLIND BELIEF not supported by evidence. If you're seriously asking for more of this, I hope you fail and don't convince anyone ever. You are seriously demanding more blind belief and less real research and true science backed up by evidence.

All our progress as a species is boosted by science...mortality rate went down because of science, less people starve because of science, we can cope with a huuuuuuuge array of diseases that killed us just 50 years ago, and the list goes on. This was only possible because science follows scientific method and their findings are based on evidence.

But you obviously prefer to listen to the very same people that tell you shrimps are an abomination of god...ARE YOU SERIOUS?? I mean no offense, but even if you're a believer, you HAVE to see how ignorant this is.

More people than not have a relationship with the "god of the gaps". How convenient He is for explaining the big mysteries of which we don't yet know the answer. Many people reject cosmology, evolutionary theory and other science based on their relationship with Him.

There is comfort in deluding one's self with a lie rather than embrace the hard work in learning and discovering. Sadly for theists, He was never located in any of the gaps and the expansion of human knowledge pushes Him into smaller and smaller abodes. The truth is, we'll never discover Him because He doesn't exist.

Interesting thread, Randy.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


And this is why the whole thing is so ridiculous...

A few thousand years ago, people used Randy's "god of the gaps system" by saying fire is a sign of god, a few hundred years later they attributed disease to god saying he's punishing them for sins, yet another few hundred years later you were killed if you said the earth isn't flat, and nowadays we have people doubting evolution or claiming gays are somehow evil and hurting them.

Every single time they attributed something to god, science proved them wrong. Why on earth would anyone seriously ask the people to use the god of the gaps system if it has been such a huge failure with an awful track record in the past???

I'm actually a bit stunned at this thread...it's accomplishing only one thing: PROMOTING IGNORANCE BY TELLING PEOPLE TO IGNORE OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE

Originally posted by MrXYZ
I'm actually a bit stunned at this thread...

I'm actually not, considering the nature of theists on this board and "in real life".

When my friends and associates discover I am an atheist I get the typical barrage of Gapgod arguments:

"How do you explain how we got here, the cause of the big bang, ghosts, near death experiences, etc. etc. etc.?".

Of course the answer is always the same: "I DON'T explain things we don't understand". That's the job of theists; to explain all such things with Gapgod, the MagicMan - all the while forgetting that this explanation has a hit rate of exactly zero percent.

And they think me the fool.

There is no God of the Gaps because there are no gaps. We just do not yet have the sight to see what fills all the gaps, but we are learning.

Theologists and Scientists are one in the same with one great difference. Theologists stop searching because they have found comfort in what they know. Scientists keep searching because they haven't found comfort in what they know. Both are seeing God in their pursuits, one thinks he has seen him all, the other thinks he hasn't seen him at all.

Silly really.

This is an infinite existence. The wonders God has given us are far beyond measure and the scope of any theologian or scientist. If both learned to love the quest for knowledge and their fellow man, both would be happy and fulfilling the commandments of God in all faiths. Then we would find peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

This is an infinite existence. The wonders God has given us are far beyond measure and the scope of any theologian or scientist. If both learned to love the quest for knowledge and their fellow man, both would be happy and fulfilling the commandments of God in all faiths. Then we would find peace.

With Love,

Your Brother

edit on 10-1-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)

Nothing against world peace...but I hope you understand that everything you posted is pure speculation based on blind belief. You are assuming god exists even though you have no objective evidence to support that belief.

And saying there are no gaps in knowledge is just plain wrong. There's so much we don't understand yet...

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Theologists and Scientists are one in the same with one great difference. Theologists stop searching because they have found comfort in what they know. Scientists keep searching because they haven't found comfort in what they know. Both are seeing God in their pursuits, one thinks he has seen him all, the other thinks he hasn't seen him at all.

Theologists don't know, which is what science continues to illuminate by purging god from those gaps. Knowledge has nothing to do with comfort. Theologians are comfortable with untruths, scientists aren't.

This is an infinite existence. The wonders God has given us are far beyond measure and the scope of any theologian or scientist. If both learned to love the quest for knowledge and their fellow man, both would be happy and fulfilling the commandments of God in all faiths. Then we would find peace.

There are some sweeping, unfounded blanket statements. First, it assumes there is a god though there is no objective evidence of deities. Then it assumes we must fulfill these gods' commandments. Let's take christianity's god's commandments for example: should we kill those working on the sabbath? How about killing homosexuals and "witches"? Should we take our unruly children to the city gates and stone them to death? How do we find peace by fulfilling these commandments from god?

Also, for those fools who say stuff like "gays are evil" because the bible says so, I have a question:

Do you like lobster/shrimp? Because you can't say gays are evil and then go to Red Lobster...because shellfish is an abomination!! It's stupid rules and doctrines like that which make religion look silly if you're logical/objective/rational.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Nothing against world peace...but I hope you understand that everything you posted is pure speculation based on blind belief. You are assuming god exists even though you have no objective evidence to support that belief.

And saying there are no gaps in knowledge is just plain wrong. There's so much we don't understand yet...

My friend,

You dispute my belief in God without even knowing what that word means to me. You have applied your own definition without asking for further clarification. God is such a subjective word, wouldn't you think further inquiry is in order before you make such statements as my belief is "Blind"?

I assure you my sight is fully functional. I see and therefore know God. God as I define it is EVERYTHING as a whole. As I have NOT seen everything, I cannot define or put limitations on my concept of God. All I can do is learn more about it everyday.

Secondly, I never said there were no gaps in our knowledge, I said there were no gaps, we just haven't the sight to see what fills the gaps, ie knowledge.

With Love,

Your Brother

If god did not want us to question everything he would not have given us the inteligence to do so. In my humble opinion Science and God will meet one day, and what a magical day it will be. People also seem to be confused between Religion and God. Religion is not God, it is man made! Some crazy people trying to say that they exclusively know what or who God is and then giving you a set of instructions to guide your life i.e. The Catholic Church, Muslims etc. Everyman should find his own connection with God, it should be 100% personal with no paedophile priests promising to release him from his sins (Iol what a joke).

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I assure you my sight is fully functional. I see and therefore know God. God as I define it is EVERYTHING as a whole.

We already have a term for "everything as a whole". That term is "everything as a whole", therefore there's no reason to assign a new label to it; i.e. "god". What are the commandments of "everything as a whole" in all faiths that we must fulfill to find peace?