Can China Invade Taiwan?

Originally posted by The Vagabond


Online you never know if somebody is what they claim to be, so you judge them on their content, not their unsubstantiated claims about themselves. The content I see from mute is mostly a yelling fit. You rarely see anyone with so many warnings, much less such well-deserved ones.

Couldn't have said it better myself. As for mule, I doubt he has this supposed backgroud he trumpets around. Actually I'd say he's a BS artist.

I do love to bring an old saying into any relevant conversation. One of my favorite definately applies here. "They say the empty can rattles the most" or as my dad liked to put it, "If it needed to be said, it probably wasn't true."

Really though this issue isn't whether or not wintermute has seen a corpse or served in the military. The issue is that here at ATS we have a lot of bright people with a lot of valid ideas, and I do not believe that I would be alone in saying that we don't need some overgrown infant yelling at them and claiming some kind of moral highground over them just because he's seen a corpse.
Some of the best educated and most widely experienced men in the world are bitterly opposed to eachother's ideas in a great many fields. It may often be the case that nobody, regardless of his experience, can state the "truth" with any certainty, to the exclusion of any contradictory opinions. The nerve of wintermute to claim that none of us have any right to question his conclusions is ridiculous, especially coming from a man who, as my esteemed colleague DevilWasp points out, claims to have fought for such freedoms.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Well unless you have a magic pill I can take that will make me 2 years older, then I cant join the USMC or US Army. First thing I'll do when I graduate high school is go straight into the military. So until then what better place than ATS?!

I thought you said when you first came to the forum that you were going Westpoint very soon and that was early last year? Just an honest question, I'm just a bit curious.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
You apparently haven't spoken enough with Westy.

Talk with him for about two more months and then come back and tell me what you observed.

Dude/t we use to argue like everyday over something.....

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
Once again and I don't think it unfair to expect...........

Unless you have EVER KILLED, AND UNLESS YOU KNWO WHAT IT MEANS TO BRING A HUMAN LIFE TO AN END THEN YOU HAVE NO RIGHT, TO SPEAK!!!!!

YOU CAN TALK ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK, BUT UNTIL YTOU HAVE TAKEN THATLIFE, UNTIL YOU HAVE TAKEN THAT LIFE, AND LOOKED INTO THOSE EYES THEN YOU ARE NOTHING MORE THAN CHILDREN WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!

I HAVE TAKEN LIFE, I HAVE STARED INTO THEIR EYES, I HAVE SEEN THE EMPTINESS THA LIES BEYIND DEATH, AND WHETHER YOU ARE A PACIFIST OR NOT, ANYONE WHO HAS EVER BEEN IN WAR WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING!!!!!

UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO SMELL BURING FLESH THEN I SUGGEST YOU KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELF AS YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THE EYES OF A DYING CHILD AND YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO THEM WHY YOU HAVE SHOT THEM THEN PLEASE DO NOT TALK TO ME, AS YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO DEATH.

I HAVE BEEN BOTH THE HARBINGER, AND THE MESSENGER OF DEATH HOW DARE YOU IN YOUR INFANTILE SPECULATIONS HAVE THE AUDACITY TO QUESTION ME.

LIKE I SAID DOVE OR HAWK, TALK TO ANYONE WHO HAS ACTUALLY SEEN WAR, AND THEY WILL SPEAK A COMPLETLY DIFFERENT LANGUAGE THAN YOU.

WHEN YOU HAVE A TEN YEAR OLD DIE IN YOUR ARMS THEN COME AND TALK TO ME, UNTIL THEN KEEP YOU ILL-INFORMED OPINIONS TO YOURSELF.............AS YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT DEATH!!!

I have spoke to those who have been to war....they speak many languages and come in many colours....soldiers, marines, airmen, sailors are all the same.....people....
I dare to qquestion you because THAT is what your generation taught mine....I hold the older generations responseable for quite a lot BUT that doesnt mean I will accuse them at every chance I get.....
If you truly fought for your country and not for yourself then you would resepct our opinions and rights, when you start acting like a soldier, sailor, marine or airmen come back and talk....until then re-read your service values...

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
You apparently haven't spoken enough with Westy.

Talk with him for about two more months and then come back and tell me what you observed.

Dude/t we use to argue like everyday over something.....

I stand corrected. Maybe I just know him a little more or something.

Uh... why are we so off-topic?

Why give people like WestPoint and Mute that much attention? Are they that important to you all that you all are literally infatuated with them?

Fine, I'll get us back on track. Has anyone ever been to Taipei? How big is the city, in relation to NYC or Los Angeles?

[edit on 4-4-2005 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Dude ease off on the anti westy stuff ...


Just wondering.....what would happen if say the US built like a base there?
Wouldnt that stop the chinese from attacking and ease taiwanese tensions..?

Dude ease off on the anti westy stuff ...


Just wondering.....what would happen if say the US built like a base there?
Wouldnt that stop the chinese from attacking and ease taiwanese tensions..?

Hehe...Nothing wrong with a bit of anti-Westy stuff (I know he doesn't like being called Westy ), he dishes out plenty in return!

As for a US base in Taiwan...I would imagine that would piss the Chinese off royally! So probably not a good move.

Imagine if the Chinese built a base in Mexico....what would the US say to that? Or, as a better comparison, the Soviets when they built their base in Cuba. That was in response to the US putting missiles in Turkey (everyone forgets that bit), but of course, whats ok for the US is wrong for someone else, isn't it?

The entire situation is a stalemate militarily, peaceful reunification is not quite possible at this stage. The Chinese don't want to start anything up and the US doesn't want to finish anything either so setting up a base there would most likely aggravate the entire situation as china would consider it as US trespassing in its territory or something to that effect.
The present situation will continue unless the Chinese or Taiwanese do something crazy.

BTW mute guy is cool!!
IAF>

[edit on 4-4-2005 by IAF101]

huh, seems like the last two pages were a little off track. Too much talking about if you killed someone before or being the messenger of death.

Originally posted by 1wintermute1
ANYONE WHO HS LOOKED INTO THE DYING EYES OF ACHILD WILL KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!

I have looked into the eyes of two people who died at my hand and over a hundred of others who's lives it was my job to save , yet I couldnt.

Death while it is they way of things , is not something that should be helped along by we feable men and woman .......

I see the faces of the many I have seen died and held most of their hands ....in my every dream and waking moment.

Death is a hidious task master , the most unforgiving , and the most pure.

It has no discrimination or ethics , but we as human beings and the creations of God have no right to take it upon ourselves to make deaths job easier.


I say this all because I in a way see why you are so irritated by the issue, and while I will do so with out yelling or getting furious, I feel as if your point is a point that should be made.

OK then here's a fresh one, going off of the idea of building a base in Taiwan (I agree it would be monumentally stupid). What would the Chinese response be?

Personally, I think that if we build a base in Taiwan then we can expect the Chinese to base aircraft in Cuba. They might even threaten to sell ICBMs to North Korea, although I doubt they'd actually do that because I don't believe Kim is firmly enough under their control, and they wouldn't want to arm a loose cannon.

Now what is the American response to Chinese presence in Cuba? Possibly nothing if the politicians win out, but I doubt the military will like that. Could it trigger Castro's overthrow? If it did of course that's going to scare the pants off of Hugo Chavez, not to mention possibly creating a direct confrontation between China and America, as Chinese troops in Cuba might defend Castro.

So it's a scarry situation. Somebody would have to blink first or we'd be risking 2 or 3 wars- Cuba, Venezuela, and Taiwan- Maybe Korea too, although I personally don't think the North has the capability to invade and I don't know if Kim would be dumb enough to try under any circumstances.

As I have said in other threads where in you have made this point, I have a right to comment as I have caused by intent two lights to burn out.

I have also failed to be good enough to save the lives of over a hundred people who I was attempting to rescue from death in my medic career.

and every face haunts me day and night.


But, I feel the point can be made more appropriately than yelling and becomming beligerant.........I think we have a responsibility to communicate the utter stench that man has upon them and to deter them from commiting these deeds..


No death is justified in the eyes of God other than the death that comes by his design...........God is the creator of all including death.....he therefore should be the one to weild the power no man.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
OK then here's a fresh one, going off of the idea of building a base in Taiwan (I agree it would be monumentally stupid). What would the Chinese response be?

Personally, I think that if we build a base in Taiwan then we can expect the Chinese to base aircraft in Cuba. They might even threaten to sell ICBMs to North Korea, although I doubt they'd actually do that because I don't believe Kim is firmly enough under their control, and they wouldn't want to arm a loose cannon.

Now what is the American response to Chinese presence in Cuba? Possibly nothing if the politicians win out, but I doubt the military will like that. Could it trigger Castro's overthrow? If it did of course that's going to scare the pants off of Hugo Chavez, not to mention possibly creating a direct confrontation between China and America, as Chinese troops in Cuba might defend Castro.

So it's a scarry situation. Somebody would have to blink first or we'd be risking 2 or 3 wars- Cuba, Venezuela, and Taiwan- Maybe Korea too, although I personally don't think the North has the capability to invade and I don't know if Kim would be dumb enough to try under any circumstances.

To look at it from a warrior's POV, I'd say U.S. vs. China over Taiwan is a military/political/social match-up to see.

I seriously doubt the U.S. would plant a base in Taiwan. One thing to remember is that a base in Taiwan would be highly vulnerable, just like the troops in South Korea. It simply would be too costly.

I agree that putting ground troops in Taiwan would be irrational, but it might make perfect sense to put small naval vessels or aircraft there. Imagine the pressure on China if we moved F-117s and F/A-22s right onto their doorstep their, then opened a naval base there so that we could keep torps and missiles on hand to rearm naval forces in the event that they had to defend Taiwan?
That would be a big signal to China not only that they weren't getting Taiwan but that we might have hostile plans. It would take A LOT to provoke that, but it would be a very effective way to blackmail China if we had to. I think that if we threatened to do that, that China would crack down on North Korea to secure our formal promise not to do it.

WHEN AND HOW, will taiwan declare independents? i personally think taiwan will never declare independents. they just dont have the balls to do it!

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I agree that putting ground troops in Taiwan would be irrational, but it might make perfect sense to put small naval vessels or aircraft there. Imagine the pressure on China if we moved F-117s and F/A-22s right onto their doorstep their, then opened a naval base there so that we could keep torps and missiles on hand to rearm naval forces in the event that they had to defend Taiwan?
That would be a big signal to China not only that they weren't getting Taiwan but that we might have hostile plans. It would take A LOT to provoke that, but it would be a very effective way to blackmail China if we had to. I think that if we threatened to do that, that China would crack down on North Korea to secure our formal promise not to do it.

To me, threats are never a good way to improve relations.

And parking our best fighter aircraft in direct harm's way is not a smart idea, whether they're stealth or not. As long as they're on the ground, their effectiveness is nil.

I say the U.S. cut it's losses, use naval forces to defend Taiwan as necessary, and if it's too late, then use a massive amphibious assault and a subsequent land campaign to liberate Taiwan.

Then we'll see the flowers in the streets and a statue of G.W. Bush in the center of Taipei.

I don't want to take y’all of topic but I have to respond.

I don't post for one day and look what I get, ahh... I though each one of us had an opinion, we cant say what we thing or how we feel. And by the way don't call me WESTY!

Now back to topic, I don't think the U.S. would build a base in Taiwan too risk and it could aggravate the situation rather than settle it.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I don't want to take y’all of topic but I have to respond.

I don't post for one day and look what I get, ahh... I though each one of us had an opinion, we cant say what we thing or how we feel. And by the way don't call me WESTY!

Stop going off-topic. Do we have to say please?