Iran: WikiLeaks release highly dubious

Iran: WikiLeaks release highly dubious

presstv.com

“Regarding the WikiLeaks documents, the president said that this measure seems to be a highly dubious scheme … they have truly included certain crimes committed by Western countries and the US in order to authenticate such documents,” Mehmanparast said at his weekly press conference on Tuesday.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The above is exactly what I have been saying for a long time now here in ATS, while most are sucking this information like it is the Gosple, forgetting that the source is the government + intelligence agencies.

Forgetting that Wikileaks is just a medium, even if Wikileaks is authentic, their information has 0 credibility because they are simply the medium.

I find it amazing, and embarrassing that ATS, the site which is suppose to be on to these BS stuff has fallen for such BS.

I thought we had experience on such BS areas, I thought we were the survivors, the last remainders of critical thinkers.

Now ask yourself this:

-How hard is it for US government + Western Central Agencies to spread dis-info propaganda wrapped around leaks.

-How hard is it for an individual working for US government + Western Central Agencies to leak these files.

You will probably say the latter is 100X easier.

Now:

-Who gained the most from these leaks.

I can argue days on and out that these leaks benifits the US more than any country in the world.

To claim that these leaks brought shame to US blabalbla, common, wake up, when did US care about shame?

And

It seems the info is directed specifically at the rising powers of the east, to divide them, and to force them to fight each other.

I believe this is the last trick out of the hat, coming from US, to clinch to power.

It has worked here in ATS, because everyone has already swallowed the information, and now believe it is too late to take it out, because no one wants to puke it out, therefore just have to wait until it comes out of the other end, and everyone realizes that it was just another BS.



The above was example of emotionalism, mixed with 'I told you so' rhetoric.

Hope you enjoyed it/

Thoughts welcome

oz

presstv.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by oozyism

(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 30-11-2010 by oozyism because: (no reason given)

Right, and your critical thinking asserts that because Press TV (which has no bias at all) agrees with your own views, it must be so. The fact that Iran has been heavily criticised in the leaks so far could not possibly mean they might have a bias, right?

I'm not saying WL is squeaky clean, I don't know at this stage. But your post shows no more of that 'critical thinking' which you state is so lacking in others. It's also based on totally inaccurate generalisations - many on ATS have and are expressing doubts about WL. I mean, come on, look at this sentence of yours:

Quote: 'I find it amazing, and embarrassing that ATS, the site which is suppose to be on to these BS stuff has fallen for such BS.' Unquote

That's not only completely factually incorrect, (if you had read the threads you would know that), it's bunkum, and such a laughable over-generalisation it completely demolishes your own (implied) claim to be a critical thinker.

Seems you've got caught up in a lack of critical appraisal of your own views and thoughts before posting this.

Yeah, PressTV is not a reliable source. It is an Iranian state-run media outlet. Of course Iran doesn't want to admit that other leaders in the middle east would secretly like the United States to bomb them. The wikileaks documents suggest that the Iranian regime is far more hated and isolated among its neighbors than previously thought.

reply to post by wcitizen


Wait, wait..

You think it is easy for a US government employee, or intelligence agency employee to leak these files?

Or

Do you think it is easier for US government to spread dis-info wrapped around leak. A perfect propaganda, which everyone has obviously fallen for.

Do you disagree that the huge majority of ATS have fallen for ATS?

I don't see many that haven't, a very small minority, who still have the ability to think outside the general thought wave.

Originally posted by kristobal
Yeah, PressTV is not a reliable source. It is an Iranian state-run media outlet. Of course Iran doesn't want to admit that other leaders in the middle east would secretly like the United States to bomb them. The wikileaks documents suggest that the Iranian regime is far more hated and isolated among its neighbors than previously thought.

It seems people don't even know what reliable source means these days/

PressTV is talking about the Iranian government, and its stance regarding Wikileaks.

Whether PressTV is reliable or not doesn't effect the fact that the Iranian government have called the leaks dubious.

I too have been considering the validity of the leaks now as i have about the Iraq leaks now that they have gone by the wayside, I used to think wiki Leaks was doing a good job but what i see is another stragedy in the big game to try to incite the global meltdown that has been planned for so long and the best place is to keep trying to incite China into action that the world will condemn and it seems to beworking as with the North and South Korean incidents,
Time will tell on this, But I for one have changed my views on Wiki Leaks and do not trust what is being put out one bit as it seem to be instigated in a fashion that always gets the mainstream Media onboaerd with big news stories and if it is a big news story in the MSM then right there it should tell you it cannot be trusted as we all know who controls the Media .....
It plays right into the hands of the Elite So therefore in my opinion this is st up and planted material and just watch,I bet soon there will be more governmental infringement on peoples rights after this and give the Government more reason to control the Internet and what is put out there based on so called homaland Security.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Wait, wait..

You think it is easy for a US government employee, or intelligence agency employee to leak these files?

No-one suggested it was easy, that doesn't make it impossible.

Or

Do you think it is easier for US government to spread dis-info wrapped around leak. A perfect propaganda,

Your logic seems to be that because you think it would be easier to spread disinfo in this way, that IS what happened. That is completely flawed logic.

which everyone has obviously fallen for.

Everyone? Could you prove that statement is true? No, because it is blatantly false.

To say 'everyone' has fallen for it is just a totally inaccurate statement. Have you actually read the threads and the posts in them? It seems you haven't, otherwise you would see how many people have expressed doubts.

Do you disagree that the huge majority of ATS have fallen for ATS?

Actually, yes, I do. I have seen a very significant number of people expressing all sorts of doubts about WL and these releases.

But that was not the point I was making. You said ATS had 'fallen for it' - a statement which is completely inaccurate - and then you criticise people for lack of critical thinking - which is a joke given the inaccurate generalisations you are making, and the fact that you use a Press TV article to support your claim of critical thinking.

I don't see many that haven't, a very small minority,

You and I have obviously been using a different ATS!!

who still have the ability to think outside the general thought wave.

No comment!

what's suspicious about these leaks is that it does not mention Israel at all. They say that the Saudis are financing al Qaeda which is pretty bad for the Saudis but nothing at all about Israel. Sort of odd, it's like they are not in the picture regarding the Middle East even though they are really the main cause of conflict. I just can't ignore that fact.

Originally posted by filosophia
what's suspicious about these leaks is that it does not mention Israel at all. They say that the Saudis are financing al Qaeda which is pretty bad for the Saudis but nothing at all about Israel. Sort of odd, it's like they are not in the picture regarding the Middle East even though they are really the main cause of conflict. I just can't ignore that fact.

I agree with you. I've mentioned this more than once. I'm waiting to see what the rest of these documents bring.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by kristobal
Yeah, PressTV is not a reliable source. It is an Iranian state-run media outlet. Of course Iran doesn't want to admit that other leaders in the middle east would secretly like the United States to bomb them. The wikileaks documents suggest that the Iranian regime is far more hated and isolated among its neighbors than previously thought.

It seems people don't even know what reliable source means these days/

PressTV is talking about the Iranian government, and its stance regarding Wikileaks.

Whether PressTV is reliable or not doesn't effect the fact that the Iranian government have called the leaks dubious.

Yes, but you use that extremely unreliable source to back up your statement that ATS lacks critical thought
What's that if it's not a lack of critical thinking?

Originally posted by oozyism

It seems people don't even know what reliable source means these days/

Would you please explain what you mean by that?

PressTV is talking about the Iranian government, and its stance regarding Wikileaks.

Are you assuming others are not aware of this? If so, why?

Whether PressTV is reliable or not doesn't effect the fact that the Iranian government have called the leaks dubious.

And that proves what, exactly?

They only released 281 documents so far.
Why would you want to write history so soon ? This has only just begun.

they call the leaks dubious and then they announce that they are willing to resume talks.

seems to me that learning that every arab nation in the middle east has practically begged the US to attack your nuclear facilities is fear inducing, not dubious.

Originally posted by Crakeur
they call the leaks dubious and then they announce that they are willing to resume talks.

seems to me that learning that every arab nation in the middle east has practically begged the US to attack your nuclear facilities is fear inducing, not dubious.

Don't take the leaks as Gospel [fullstop]

And

We still don't know what the conditions of the talks are. I for one suspect Iran gained the upper hands in the talks, due to US struggle in Afghanistan, and US failure to secure a US government in Iraq.

The talks do not call for Iranian freeze of enrichment, that is all Iran has been asking for, therefore they got what they wanted. The talks can continue

US was asking Iran to freeze enrichment before the talks can continue, it seems the US has failed.

This is all

reply to post by oozyism


I haven't seen any conditions, just that Iran has said they are willing to talk again.

If I were Iran, and I found out that every Arab nation around me was calling for the US to attack me, I'd want to sit down and talk too.

Iran suddenly finds themselves as the focus of all eyes. There's no more denying they cut the cheese.

Nothing surprising if Saudi Arabia pushing for US to attack Iran. Apparently, Israel has been lobbying sanctions & war against Iran for decades. The people behind the release of Wikileaks info are trying to shape/divert situation outcome according to their preferred way.

If India was put into picture, then it will be a very different story.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by oozyism

 

I haven't seen any conditions, just that Iran has said they are willing to talk again.

If I were Iran, and I found out that every Arab nation around me was calling for the US to attack me, I'd want to sit down and talk too.

Iran suddenly finds themselves as the focus of all eyes. There's no more denying they cut the cheese.

The condition for talks was set by US, that Iran must stop the enrichment in order for negotiations to start.

Iran refused, and continued to pursue with its rights of acquiring peaceful nuclear technology.

Now it seems the US is not pushing for that condition, Iran continues to enrich Uranium etc etc..

Regarding the Arabs states wanting US to attack Iran, I don't think Iran is concerned about that, I think Iran sees most Arab states as having puppet regimes. That being said, puppet regimes listen to their puppet master, not the other way around.

Iran is more concerned about the Arab people, and obviously Iran is winning their hearts, while US is installing puppets and teaching the puppet security forces how to torture incase of Iranian style revolutions.

Sorry for going a little offtopic, but they are all related in one way or another.

By the way:
Do you think US is capable of attacking Iran, considering its current situation?



Just to add some substance regarding the condition US set for talks:

TEHRAN, December 24 (RIA Novosti) - Iran has turned down demands by the United States to halt its uranium enrichment program as a precondition for direct negotiations with Washington, the foreign minister said on Monday.
"Following the publication of a U.S. intelligence report on Iran, U.S. politicians started talking about some preconditions for negotiations with this country. But we do not accept any conditions," Manouchehr Mottaki said.

en.rian.ru...

The above is from 2007.

Iran said on Tuesday that it will offer a timetable soon for UN inspection of its controversial new uranium enrichment plant but again rejected demands for a freeze on the sensitive process.

Atomic energy chief Ali Akbar Salehi said Iran is ready to discuss world concerns about its previously undisclosed second enrichment plant, but insisted there can be no bargaining about Iran's right to master the nuclear fuel cycle at long-awaited talks with major powers on Thursday.

www.spacewar.com...

The above is from 2009

Originally posted by oozyism
Forgetting that Wikileaks is just a medium, even if Wikileaks is authentic, their information has 0 credibility because they are simply the medium.

Oozii you focus on the part of the leaks that are directed towards Iran. These leaks have shown a full spectrum of activity some damning and some mundane. Simply because you and many like you dislike the fact that it shows the US no worse or better than any other Government.

As far as it's credibility goes. The leaks dropped another bomb so to speak with regards to the North Korean issue. It has shown that North Korea's long time Allie and supporter is ready to give the North Koreans their exit papers. This in itself is a MAJOR change. Unlike Saudi Arabia which immediately denied the leaked data trying desperately to avoid it's potential ramifications. China stepped right up to the plate and admitted the leaked info regarding North Korea was true and that it stands by the info.

Wikileaks row: China wants Korean reunification, officials confirm

Chinese officials speak after Guardian US embassy cables reveal Beijing is leaning towards acceptance of reunification under Seoul's control

Not that this thread is about North Korea. I just used that as an example to prove the leaks were credible. Anyone who knows anything about the Korean issue knows how dramatic the dynamics have changed as a result of the leaks. It adds tons of weight in favor of the leaks veracity.

That still doesn't rob Wikileaks out of its roll.