Why Turkey accepting the anti-missile shield could lead to WW3

Russia should be afraid, as the missiles are in the wrong place to defend against Korea-Iran, and therefore (as usual) little the West proclaims, turns out to true.

History…
The only time Russia & the West got along “ok” was when Yeltsin was in charge. Why? Because the man was a drunk, he was backed by us, listened to our advice about “shock therapy” which unnecessarily damaged what remained of the USSR economy (all to the benerfit of Europe & America).
Most importantly Yeltsin sold Russia’s vast natural mineral resources in a way that flooded the market, and therefore got Russia a fraction of their real worth.

Then Yeltsin realised he was loosing his grip on life (both mentally and physically). He started to get worried that members of his family, might be prosecuted for corruption (and other crimes they were guilty of) by the next administration.
So he thought: “Who can I trust to take my place, who’s character won’t break their word, even when they’re under pressure later?”

Somehow he choose Putin for this role, and Putin didn’t let him down (no member of Yeltsin family prosecuted). However Putin was a real patriot, and someone not too drunk to forget about the interests of his country either.
So Putin promotes state-owned Gazprom which bought back oil & reserves, by first the Russian government declaring them an “environmental protection zone” then Gazprom buying them at a low price, then the environmental matters becoming “resolved”.
In this way (and other ways not unlike it) Russia has been able to buy back its resources, from Western companies, at the similar “rip off” they were sold for!

Needless to say this didn’t make Putin very popular with the West. Also Medvedev has proven to be more dull in personality, but equally committed to putting his countries interests beyond our schemes, of corruption.

Punishment…
The missile shield is a punishment, who’s costs will damage the Russian economy (rather like the Raggon cold war strategy) if our desires for economic dominance WITHIN Russia are not met. The U.S elite doesn’t care about the cost, because it’s long been internally corrupted by its own industrial defence complex.

However unlike our ****less leaders, in the Russians position, Russia’s real men-leaders won’t give in. They will retaliate by opening up trade to our enemies, and possibly by supplying them with “peaceful” nuclear technology.
Proliferation will increase, therefore shield will do more harm than good. Meanwhile Russia will look to the long-term where trade with more rationally materialistic countries (like China) will become the main issue.

The only thing to have changed matters is Obama’s offers of Russian co-operation in the scheme. Russia will co-operate but they want limits on the number of warheads, full technology sharing, and consultation about placements. Meanwhile the U.S wants Russia to co-operate over Iran (i.e. don't sell them too many arms). Russia recently cancelled anti aircraft missile, sale, to Iran, in good faith.

If Russia is not the enemy, then the West should compromise. Otherwise both countries will carry on in ways that are very indifferent & hostile, towards each other. There will be no war between East and West, but our security will be damaged by the transfer of Russian technology & co-operation, into our real enemies hands.

reply to post by Liberal1984


Thanks for your post. A good one.

Russia questions NATO sincerity after leaks: minister

Russia's foreign minister questioned NATO's sincerity on Thursday after leaked US cables revealed a plan to protect the Baltic states from a Russian threat, Russian news agencies reported.

"With one hand, NATO agrees with us on joint partnership but with the other hand it takes the decision that it needs to defend itself," Lavrov said at a news conference in Moscow, quoted by the Interfax news agency.

"When is NATO more sincere?" Lavrov asked. "We have asked these questions and await answers. We think we have the right."

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Does somebody have to spell it out?

It's not about Iran or North Korea. It's the Wests defense against possible future threats from say China and or India. Iran and North Korea are not nor will they ever be real threats. Russia is deciding which side of the fence they want to be on. US/EU or Chinese and or India.

Because China and India will be global powers in the next decade or two. Nobody is saying it out loud but that's whats on everybody's mind.

This is not about Russian first strike or US/West first strike capability. People need to stop thinking 20th Cold-War mentality. This is now West vs East. Not the US/NATO vs Russia/Warsaw pact anymore.

reply to post by SLAYER69

It's the Wests defense against possible future threats from say China and or India.

Also Russia.

This is not about Russian first strike or US/West first strike capability. People need to stop thinking 20th Cold-War mentality. This is now West vs East. Not the US/NATO vs Russia/Warsaw pact anymore.

Thing is Russia is on China's side... or are they?


Russia warns Poland against hosting US fighter jets

Russia on Thursday warned Poland against hosting US F-16 fighter jets, possibly from 2013, saying it would work to counter the move.

Poland's Defence Minister Bogdan Klich announced last month that his country would accept a US proposal to host rotations of F-16 and Hercules transport aircraft and their crews on its territory.

"I hope this will begin in 2013," Klich had told Poland's TOK FM commercial radio station.

A statement issued by the Russian defence ministry said Thursday Moscow would "take into account the American-Polish plans and carry out [its] own armed forces development projects".

So what's it gonna be this time? Deployment of S-400s in Kaliningrad? Iskanders?

Well well well... was reading some Wikileak documents...

And one about Ukraine... and THE MISSILE SHIELD. Ain't that interesting?

U.S.-UKRAINE NONPROLIFERATION MEETINGS SEPTEMBER (from NOV 2009)

Missile Defense
---------------
¶5. (U) In the one-on-one meeting before the plenary, Nykonenko told Van Diepen that Ukraine had read with interest the new U.S. plan for missile defense in Europe. Nykonenko pointed out that Ukraine had missile defense expertise and was interested in continued missile defense cooperation, which could help reconfirm Ukraine’s role in the new European security architecture. It was ‘very important’ for Ukraine to receive positive signals from the U.S., he said. Van Diepen replied that the U.S. would be looking forward to discussing missile defense with Ukraine the following week during the meetings in Kyiv led by Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs Vershbow.

I wonder what Russia is gonna say about this...

Also..

Security Assurances
-------------------
¶6. (S) The first item Nykonenko raised during the one-on-meeting was an appeal for additional security assurances for Ukraine, beyond those the U.S. had provided in the 1994 Budapest Declaration. He explained that Ukraine felt threatened, particularly after the Russian invasion of Georgia. Ukraine needed a security anchor to fill the vacuum until it could join NATO.

Nice uh? I bet Russia will like that very much too... NOT.

Russia has installed latest set of anti-ship missiles on border with Azerbaijan

The Russian government has started realising its threat on installation of tactical and strategic missile systems of various types on bases on its southern flank in response to the creation of a tactical missile defense by the United States and NATO.

The range of the Ball complex actually covers the capital of Azerbaijan, Baku city. It should be noted that Russia is also deploying along the border with NATO the Iskander missile system capable of carrying nuclear warheads, and began replacing single-warhead nuclear missiles Topol-M with the newest mobile-based nuclear missile systems RS-24 Yars with separating warheads.

Well ain't that nice.

reply to post by Vitchilo


I like this one better

Russia vows 'to share responsibility' over Europe missile shield

MOSCOW, December 13 (RIA Novosti)

Russia is ready to share responsibility in creating a joint missile defense shield in Europe, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said on Monday.

"We have proposed to share responsibility and Russia is ready to act in some part and take on anti-missile defense responsibility," Serdyukov told Vesti 24 news television channel.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev warned in his state of the nation address on November 30 that if talks on the missile defense failed within a decade "a new round of arms race will start" and Russia will "have to adopt decisions on the deployment of new strategic weapons."

Medvedev also said that Russia was ready to participate in a joint missile defense shield in Europe "on principles of equality and responsibility." Russia and NATO agreed at a recent NATO-Russia summit in Lisbon to formulate terms for missile defense cooperation by June 2011.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Actions speak louder than words... so I win!

Kidding. We'll see... they are saying the same thing over and over again... nothing new.

Mutually Assured Destruction never seemed like such a great policy for the human race to me. Let's build the shield. Russia isn't going to do anything about it and we sure as hell aren't going to attack them.

reply to post by Vitchilo



That singing is AN ACT OF WAR!

The way I see it, the US and western allies are preparing to remove current and any future potential threats anywhere in the world. They are laying the foundations now to be able to remove any missile threats from any country be iot a current rogue state or a friendly state that may turn in the future.

This missile shield is an investment in the security of the western way of life, like it or not.

There WILL come a time in the future when things will come to a head. Russia is too large to exist as a single state. China and India cannot be allowed to ahcieve global super power status. between that, rogue states and any other future threats, a major war to "cleanse" the warth of western enemies might be just what we need.

Like it or not, it will be US or THEM...what you beleive as a matter of principle wont mean anything. In the eyes of the WEST, this has to be done. If the WEST suceeds, then you can pretty much guarantee there wont be any more major global wars for a very long time to come.....constant skirmishes in seperate battlefields around the world will become a way of life but no one countrywill ever become a global super power threat if the US/WEST nips it in the butt within the next decade!

Yep totally right Melbourne Militia.

Will S-500 system be good against Minotaur IV?

Igor Korotchenko, an official with the Russian Defense Ministry, said during the conference that NATO countries, particularly the USA, had been developing a new generation of hypersonic strike weapons and hypersonic missile weapons (Prompt Global Strike).

It will be highly complicated to intercept the new missiles with the use of contemporary anti-missile systems. The flight-in time of the new weapon in comparison with air-based cruise missiles is reduced to mere minutes, which makes it impossible for the attacked side to take defense measures.

The Americans say that the hypersonic arms will be built to destroy terrorists, first and foremost. However, according to the documents of NATO's AGARD group, the hypersonic missiles will be developed to strike enemy's reinforced objects, ABM and AD systems, to obtain supremacy in the air, to effectively intercept ballistic missiles and destroy hypersonic assault weapons.

The appearance of such weapons in the United States will minimize the advantages of Russia's missile and nuclear shield. Military experts said during the discussion that Russia would not be able to defend its missile complexes - the basis of the national nuclear containment forces - in case of such an attack.

The global strike program was always aimed at the Soviets and China. Not against terrorists.

``Terrorists`` don't have air power, nor hardcore bunkers, well Hezbollah have a few and North Korea have a boatload... but you don't need Global Strike program to destroy North Korea.

On May 13th, the next day after the USA tested Minotaur IV, former commander of the Russian Air Force Anatoly Korkunov and former head of procurement Anatoly Sitnov stated that the Russian air and space defense forces were incapable of guaranteeing security to the country.

What can Russia oppose to the new challenge from the United States?

Alexander Mordovin, an expert at the council for external and defense politics stated that the creation of new missiles would pose a serious problem for Russia.

"Conventional cruise missiles could be destroyed by fighter jets, but in this case it would be very problematic. Fourth and fifth-generation fighter jets can fly at low altitudes not faster than 1,300 km/h. The hypersonic weapons will be made to fly at low altitudes, which makes it very hard to destroy them in the air. Russia wrapped up its space defense program during Gorbachev's and Yeltsin's times, including the combat lasers project. However, those lasers would be very helpful in fighting Minotaur-type missiles. One can hope for the development of the new S-500 complex. For the time being, one may say that Russia will remain vulnerable to possible attacks with the use of hypersonic weapons for a long time in the future," the expert said.

The US is building all that for global dominance.

Russia warns US: Don't tinker with new START

Russia on Monday warned US lawmakers debating a landmark nuclear arms control treaty that any changes would kill the accord, which faced a critical US Senate test vote on the uncertain path to approval.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov warned US senators that START "completely meets the national interests of both Russia and the United States" and "cannot be reopened, becoming the subject of new negotiations."

Hopefully it passes tomorrow with no changes otherwise big trouble could come.

Vladimir Radyuhin: Russia sees US game in peninsula

As the crisis on the Korean peninsula continues unabated, Russia has accused the United States and South Korea of provoking the recent flare-up of tension. On Friday, the Russian Foreign Ministry summoned the South Korean and US Ambassadors to express “extreme concern” over a planned live-firing drill near a disputed maritime border with North Korea.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexei Borodavkin “strongly urged” the envoys “to refrain from conducting the planned firing in order to avoid further escalation of tensions on the Korean peninsula.” He reminded the envoys that a similar artillery firing on November 23 had “provoked an exchange of fire... that caused casualties.”

The statement is in line with the view of Russian experts on Korea who believe that the US is provoking tension on the Korean Peninsula to continue to threaten Russia and China.

“Keeping up tension on the peninsula is the only way for the US to justify the more than half-a-century-long presence of American forces in Japan and South Korea that is directed against Russia and especially China,” said Dr Alexander Zhebin, head of the Centre for Korean Studies at the Russian Institute of the Far East.

The scholar said that had it not been for the North Korean “threat,” the US would be hard put to explain the need for deploying missile defences in East Asia, which is proceeding much faster than in Europe and targets Russia and China rather than North Korea.

Russia knows what the hell is going on.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Russia knows what the hell is going on.

Yes!

And it is best to NOT TAUNT THE TIGER!

Things are heating up.

Russia to decide on missile deployment if no deal with NATO

Russia is expecting a reply from NATO to its proposals on building a European missile defense system, and will have to deploy a nuclear missile grouping if no agreement is reached, President Dmitry Medvedev said Monday.

"Our partners should realize that we need this not to play games together with NATO but for Russia to be properly defended. This is my duty as president..." he said at a meeting with Russia's envoy to NATO Dmitry Rogozin.

"We expect a direct and unambiguous answer from our NATO partners - where they see Russia's place [in the system of the European missile defense]," Medvedev said.

"Either we agree on certain principles with NATO and create a joint system to resolve missile defense tasks, or we do not agree, and then we will have to make a number of unpleasant decisions in the future regarding the deployment of a strike nuclear missile grouping," Medvedev said.

NATO, Russia missile systems to stay separate: NATO chief
So Russia basically already have their answer right there. The Russian statement is basically to ask them to reconsider again.

France, Germany with closer defense ties?

France wants closer defense industry cooperation with Germany, Defense Minister Alain Juppe said this week, in what could culminate in a deal similar to the one Paris struck with Britain last year.

"I hope, finally, to re-raise the question of a strengthening of our industrial cooperation with Germany," Defensenews.com quoted Juppe as saying Tuesday in the traditional New Year's wishes to the military services.

Something else Russia won't like.

Nordic military invites Baltic states on board

Nordic nations on Friday invited the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania to join a body that aims to smooth cooperation among the region's armed forces, the Estonian military said.

Again something they won't like.

Romania wants to finalize talks on US missile shield in 2011
Again..

Obama vows to pursue US missile defense plans

President Barack Obama vowed Saturday to pursue the deployment of US missile defense systems and rejected Russia's claim that doing so would justify withdrawing from a new nuclear arms control treaty.

"Regardless of Russia's actions in this regard, as long as I am president, and as long as the Congress provides the necessary funding, the United States will continue to develop and deploy effective missile defenses to protect the United States, our deployed forces, and our allies and partners," he said.

Basically, screw Russia.

Russia 'political grandstanding' on shield: NATO official
Calling their bluff uh?

Report: Russia warns US over missile defense plans

Russia sees the planned U.S. missile defense system as a potential threat to its nuclear forces and may review its participation in a landmark nuclear arms treaty, officials said Monday.

The treaty doesn't prevent the U.S. from building new missile defense systems, but Russia has warned that it reserves the right to withdraw from the treaty if the United States significantly boosts its missile shield.

Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov reaffirmed Monday that a buildup in the U.S. missile defense capability would prompt Moscow re-consider its obligations under the New START treaty.

"If the U.S. increases the qualitative and quantitative potential of its missile defense ... a question will arise whether Russia should further abide by the treaty or would have to take other measures to respond to the situation, including military-technical measures," Ryabkov said, according to Russian news agencies.

Ryabkov warned Monday that Russia won't cooperate with NATO on the project unless it's treated as a full partner.

"This must be a joint system with shared responsibilities, information exchange and decision-making in order to make us an equal and responsible member," he said. "If two separate networks are built, things won't change for us and we will see a situation when the NATO system could potentially be used against Russia's security interests. Cooperating on such a system would mean hurting ourselves."

Russia's Deputy Defense Minister Anatoly Antonov said Monday the U.S. missile defense could only be aimed against Russian missiles. "This system could undermine Russian nuclear deterrent forces," he said.

Russia gets it.

Lithuania claims Russia deployed warheads near border

Russia has deployed short-range nuclear warheads in its Kaliningrad territory which borders NATO members Poland and Lithuania, Lithuanian Defence Minister Rasa Jukneviciene claimed Tuesday.

"We want major nations to start negotiations on reducing the number of such weapons. It's no secret that such weapons are deployed near us, in Kaliningrad. And to our east as well," Jukneviciene told Lithuanian public radio.

Rumours have repeatedly surfaced of the presence of such arms in Kaliningrad, a Russian territory sandwiched between the Baltic Sea, Poland and Lithuania.

Now if that is true...

Russia ready to hold drills with Ukraine in any format - defense minister
+1
Russia, Ukraine to sign deal on Russian Black Sea Fleet rearmament

Improving relations between Ukraine and Russia is good for stability..

But that could change :

Ukraine's Role In European Missile Defense Not Yet Discussed

"I have taken into consideration that Ukraine is interested in such cooperation," Rasmussen said then after talks with Ukraine's Foreign Minister Kostyantyn Hryshchenko.

Or Ukraine might not agree to anything missile shield wise unless Russia agrees.