WikiLeaks Iraq files reveal torture [VIDEO] FRAGO 242

Once all the atrocities of this leak have been fully disclosed, once all the cries for retribution have been heard, only then will we see that nothing will really change with those that were responsible and we will move onto another chapter in our history that will probably show up (eventually) even more atrocities.

Life goes on.....and the people can't change anything unless it's done in the masses.

Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by CanuckCoder

 

Hey, once they had to admit there were no WMD, they then OFFICIALLY stated they were there to free the Iraqi's from Saddam (to invade a country to change their leader, is, by the way, against all international law), so they then allow torture? Please, there is absolutely no excuse for them turning a blind eye. They did this for one reason only - because it suited their own heinous agenda.

There are rules of engagement and they broke them hook line and sinker.

They got themselves into a humanitarian mess of their own creation but they didn't care, since their main objective was greed -- (the oil field), and taking control of Iraq because Israel wanted them to - they turned a blind eye to all the suffering inflicted on the civilians, and in fact killed hundreds and thousands needlessly and also carried out torture themselves.

What these documents show beyond any doubt is that these monsters have no concern for people or life - they worship the devils of power and greed at any cost. This is their agenda laid bare. They are doing the same thing in our so-called democracies in a more subtle and less visible manner.

They didnt turn a blind eye, they reported it. Obviously. Those reports were top secret and for leaders only to make a decision on. Those leaders failed to order the troops to stop it.

Regardless, its Iraqi's doing it to Iraqi's. The US did what it is supposed to which is report these crimes.

Your are trying to blame a country for attempting to not get to involved in Iraqi regulations. its up to iraqi's to decide the kind of life they want for themselves.

Its obvious to me the troops are doing there best, the leadership is doing its best to keep this hidden.

It matters to the Iraqi's more then anything and their the ones complicit.

Yes torture is bad, no arguments there. The symantecs of this are for more complex then your mind can handle obviously. When your a war leader or a leader of a country, only then will you know all the symantecs of this. Until then, talk about what you know. Not about what you read and think you know.

BTW the US is not complicit in the torture, the leadership of the US is. Should we have blamed all of kosovo for slobadan milosovic? No, they blamed the one in power and punished him. All this Anti-US rhetoric when its a handful who lead it is assinine.

reply to post by wcitizen


That statement is a dangerous one. An attitude like that is one of the reasons the Civilian Death Toll will probably continue to climb. There are insurgents who will gladly die to achieve political gain for their cause. When you say the Coalition are responsible for every death, it gives them more incentive to hide among civilians in addition to killing more Coalition troops. The more innocent lives lost, the greater the anger and resentment towards Coalition troops.

I don't agree with this war either, but to deny that Insurgent tactics are having a large impact on the CIVILIAN death toll is naive to the extreme.

BOOOOOOOOOOO!!! I feel that what they are doing has no basis other than just to make a name.. Everyone knows that war is unethical, that bad things happen. Shoot we kill people as do them. So why would you publish this? I think it's just to be an "Jack Wagon"!!!
they should be arrested

War is nasty game, you don't win by handing out flowers and throwing up a peace sign. War has been hear since the beginning of time and is here to stay. The way those people fight is a sinister. They make a very powerful yet crude device and wait untill you travel down a road and blow your legs off. The soldier doesn't even get a round off.
They chop off non-military, civilian heads. If they have to ram a garden hose up someone for intelligence, then so be it.

I hope things like this will get a stop to the occupying wars. Only country border wars should be legal.

It's all about the money, power and greed. And dehumanization. Which will eventually lead to insanity, as we have noticed how these neo-con wackos are starting to lose it in the public.

As someone said on this thread, it's amazing how some people are trying to justify going into another countries and bombing the living [snip] out of them. And the masses are told "we're liberating them". Yeah, liberating them from their husbands and oil.

It's a major step back in the human evolution.. but oh yeah, the people who order this stuff don't even believe in evolution. So there you go.

"Fighting for freedom".. give me a break.

Don't we already know that the US tortured Iraqi civilians/soldiers?

This is indeed very disturbing and worst part is that it will probably won't change. And even if they were a very strick law and 20 years in prison people would still do it. It's a shame.

Great thread.

Oh how good are "liberators", they dont have sins at all. They only watch and reported. This is position of Pilatus in trial against Christ, but he is punished by God for this position. You can not just report evil that is made with your help and because of your actions and expect that you will be justified for this.
And after total collaps of Iraq there is high risk that it will be like Lebanon with internal civil war for many years - suny vs shea vs curds, everyone in these comunities against other comunities. And US is responsible for this with his actions and not actions. But may be this is goal of US for this war???
Oh i forgot for these guys that go to Iraq to kill for fun, and mainly to kill civilians. In "colateral murder" we know of one of them, voice "let me shoot, let me shoot" and finally he shoot... And this is not only one such person, they are many and most of them are not public known.

Originally posted by Tryptych
It's all about the money, power and greed. And dehumanization. Which will eventually lead to insanity, as we have noticed how these neo-con wackos are starting to lose it in the public.

As someone said on this thread, it's amazing how some people are trying to justify going into another countries and bombing the living [snip] out of them. And the masses are told "we're liberating them". Yeah, liberating them from their husbands and oil.

It's a major step back in the human evolution.. but oh yeah, the people who order this stuff don't even believe in evolution. So there you go.

"Fighting for freedom".. give me a break.

You base this statement on what exactly? Where is the proof this is about Oil? Where is the proof this is not about liberation? Where is the proof its all about money, power, greed and dehumanization? How do you know we are being led to insanity?

Im curious to know how you come to this illogical irrational and fact-less assumption.

IMO so far these files make US LEADERSHIP look bad.
It looks like many times the troops tried to report, tried to stop torture, but were told to NOT intervene and only report, so then reports did nothing.
Donald Rumsfeld needs to be on trial, and possibly General Sanchez.

The American public looks bad for the fact that 60% of us at least are taking the attitude "well they didn't want us to know so we shouldn't know, kill that guy Assange for bothering us."

Lazy media, lazy public, CNN trying to trick Assange, sick as a dog with the flu, into going on camera to smear himself when they should be taking about the sodomy and rape and Blackwater.

About the only folks that DO look good are the troops trying to report to a brick wall.

America went toppled sadam because they said they had disputable, hard evidence they have WMD's.... they didnt, none has ever been found so America had NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to engage in war with Iraq.....

i dont like how people say "this is war, its never nice".... America and the rest shouldnt been in this country to begin with and i blame the American people for allowing its government to do this..

I hope america and any other country involved in killing and torturing inoccent people get whats comming to them, they should be punished just like all the inocent people.

this is not a valid war, this is a war that should NEVER have happened, so dont come here with your rubish and say "its war, it happens"..... because it doesnt and shouldnt.

Originally posted by Itop1
America went toppled sadam because they said they had disputable, hard evidence they have WMD's.... they didnt, none has ever been found so America had NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to engage in war with Iraq.....

i dont like how people say "this is war, its never nice".... America and the rest shouldnt been in this country to begin with and i blame the American people for allowing its government to do this..

I hope america and any other country involved in killing and torturing inoccent people get whats comming to them, they should be punished just like all the inocent people.

this is not a valid war, this is a war that should NEVER have happened, so dont come here with your rubish and say "its war, it happens"..... because it doesnt and shouldnt.

While i agree the decision to go to war is based on a lie, the US people and leadership failed to stop the war on this consensus. This has been argued many times and decided by most the US did something illegal, but the international community doesnt think so. What do you think that means?

Originally posted by above
I hope things like this will get a stop to the occupying wars. Only country border wars should be legal.

..but it won't since War Is Big Business.

Torture = step back in the social evolution. Back to the middle ages. It's pathetic and absurd.

Originally posted by CanuckCoder

Originally posted by Itop1
America went toppled sadam because they said they had disputable, hard evidence they have WMD's.... they didnt, none has ever been found so America had NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to engage in war with Iraq.....

i dont like how people say "this is war, its never nice".... America and the rest shouldnt been in this country to begin with and i blame the American people for allowing its government to do this..

I hope america and any other country involved in killing and torturing inoccent people get whats comming to them, they should be punished just like all the inocent people.

this is not a valid war, this is a war that should NEVER have happened, so dont come here with your rubish and say "its war, it happens"..... because it doesnt and shouldnt.

While i agree the decision to go to war is based on a lie, the US people and leadership failed to stop the war on this consensus. This has been argued many times and decided by most the US did something illegal, but the international community doesnt think so. What do you think that means?

I dont care what other people think, nor should you, you should only care about whats right and wrong, that goes for everyone else, those that think wrong is right need to be punished...

this war is wrong, this war has led to so many deaths, this war hes led to so many additional bad things to happen, i know sadam may have been bad, but so are many other rulers like north korea, so why does america not go to north korea and stop him?? because in my eyes, america is spineless. they only went for oil, they dont care about the people of the country, they dont care about WMD's, they obviously didnt have hard evidence, otherwise they would have found something, it was all a lie just for oil.

... and may be not just oil, but stargate in south Iraq, and they dont care what will happen after them...

First, I was told that we needed to invade Iraq because the Iraqi government was providing aid to Al Qaeda. But, no one was able to provide any evidence of that. Then I was told that we needed to invade Iraq because the Iraqi government had chemical and biological weapons and was attempting to obtain nuclear weapons. But, no one was able to provide any evidence of that. Then I was told that we needed to invade Iraq because the Iraqi government was torturing and murdering its civilians. Now, it appears that the Iraqi government is torturing and murdering its civilians, but our official policy is to ignore it.

Then there are those here who appear to feel that such activities are justified because anyone who was tortured or murdered was probably up to no good anyway and probably deserved it, which is a fancy way of saying that the end really does justify the means. Let me ask this: How many of you live in countries wherein it is widely considered legitimate for the State to torture its citizens as part of an established judicial process?

reply to post by Itop1


Again id like to see where anyone has declared it officially an illegal war. No one of an official status in any world government has declared it as such except enemies of the USA.

If the US people are convinced this is illegal why dont they impeach their president, or demand justice?

The US people are also complicit, they believe their own leaders are wrong and will not stand up for it except in forums such as these hidden by anonymity. To me that's courageless behaviour.

The day the US people do something about their leaders wrong-doings is the day this world will become a better one. Until then, they are as much part of the problem as the leaders themselves.

Again this has not been declared illegal by any official body, its not supported by all, but also not condemned.

Originally posted by CanuckCoder
reply to post by Itop1

 

Again id like to see where anyone has declared it officially an illegal war. No one of an official status in any world government has declared it as such except enemies of the USA.

If the US people are convinced this is illegal why dont they impeach their president, or demand justice?

The US people are also complicit, they believe their own leaders are wrong and will not stand up for it except in forums such as these hidden by anonymity. To me that's courageless behaviour.

The day the US people do something about their leaders wrong-doings is the day this world will become a better one. Until then, they are as much part of the problem as the leaders themselves.

Again this has not been declared illegal by any official body, its not supported by all, but also not condemned.

So you need an "official" person to tell you that the war is illegal? your incapable of using your own common sence and see for yourself that its wrong? the reason why these things happen is because of that, people cant see for themselves, unless somebody official says its illegal, then it must be ok? i disagree.... but i agree with you when you say the american people are just as much to blame for this as the government because they are like sheep and too afraid to stand up for whats right.