I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

reply to post by Internet Explorer


I also understand the OP's frustration. We all get frustrated with life. I think it depends on each individuals personality as to how they handle life. Generally, I'm a happy person. I don't have much money, I have a few close friends and a very small family, but I still stay upbeat most of the time. My husband on the other hand looks at life totally different. He can wake up in the morning mad at the world and many times it looks like he is just looking for conflict or someone to tick off that day. I don't understand that way of thinking and I guess its because I don't have that personality. I see the news and read about all the horrendous things that are going on in the world and it does take a blow to you.
I feel that the reason we don't remember past lives or what "heaven" is like is because if we did remember many would cut this incarnation short. Hang in there OP this is our Hell!

but its interesting :there are measurement that a certain focus of enough people can make an effect (look at 9.11 and the unexpected behaviour of random generators)

What a fantastic thread to read after an 11 hour shift in a customer call centre! I wholeheartedly agree with you! enough is enough. I dont want to be a pawn in some higher beings chess game anymore! Yet tommorow i have another 11 hr shif!!t so the cycle continues...............

reply to post by jymmyjaymes

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I don't know, I don't see myself as a Rat either

Why do you doubt, the truth is before you.

People let others push their buttoms, the point is not to have any button to push, which would be called self control.

Problems are ment to be solved.

Originally posted by Staben
reply to post by OrphenFire

 

Love was an example I used of one of Gods traits and an example of a trait that many religions are missing. Remember Satan keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.. so Satan has all types of traps for people, false religions ( some practice love and some do not ), secular beliefs such as we are one with the universe and the universe is god.. I never stated that with the one single trait of a religion practicing love makes them true and makes them of the true God.

How very convenient. Satan has led people to follow other religions that practice peace and love to confuse people into going to hell! This is a perfect example of how a flawed book written and edited by flawed human beings is able to control so many people. It was made with the perfect recipe for controlling people by using fear, guilt, and the promise of an eternal fantasy land. It also threatens people with hell for those that don't believe and don't apologize for being human. You must ask for forgiveness for acting the way you were created. It requires ignorance. You can't question it and you can't leave it. Or else!...

How very arrogant of you to think that you've found the one true religion and one true god. There are thousands of religions and gods. If you think you've been lucky enough to pick the right one then I suggest you play the lottery right now. Have you ever stopped and thought that maybe no one knows what they're talking about and that's why you have so many different contradicting religions and beliefs? There could be a hell that exists that all Christians must go to for not believing in the right god.

We want to be important. We want to live forever. It's all really quite simple and obvious when you just stop, put your fears, ego and pride away for a moment. We are afraid of death and the unknown. Always have been and always will. It's only natural. Religions were and are still created to comfort us with our fear of death and the unknown and to easily explain what we don't understand.

Originally posted by TKDRL
I sometimes catch myself wondering if I am already dead, and this is the hell that I was sent to. Sure does seem like it a lot of the time.

Amen! I was going to start a thread saying that this IS hell. We are in hell! The things that are awesome in life are few and far between, a few seconds, glimpses of ecstasy in a lifetime of injustice, suffering, and the mundane-ness of it all!

I agree with many here with their views and reality could be one or all of these.
From what I read here, the idea of labeling and knowing how something works
is reassuring to us and we all yearn to be charge of our own destiny.

It could be that all this is just a dream and we're stuffed in a pod somewhere,
it could be that we'll be joining a queue to come back here or elsewhere, when
we 'pop our clogs' or it could be that you're merely a composite of cells that
have agreed to exist together and due to our primal fears, our brains have
invented a belief of a hereafter.

I think we're not even 'we'! I'm guessing our reality is made of what we perceive
through our senses and we've become so enwrapped in our ego and self-importance
that we, and remember, we believe that no other animal on this planet has a self-
perception... that we don't grasp that our being is a pile of living cells...and we don't
actually exist!

It's quite a thing to come to terms with.

It seems as though there are as many suspicions into the nature of reality as there are personalities who would dare ponder it.

Excellent thread.

Reality is what YOU make of it, yes it is that simple.

reply to post by Starseed32

A naturally buoyant attitude is definitely a gift IMO - I think most folks have to work at maintaining a positive attitude which isn't always easy

But yeah, I think you may be right - if we knew the truth of the 'other side' or whatever it's called then we'd be unable / unwilling to continue!

reply to post by schuyler


The initiator of this had the final result in mind, and because it came into existence in the same manner, it knew that the emerging result would be able to handle the whole of this. There is an enzyme that floods the birthing mother's brain with the impact of erasing the most terrible aspects of childbirth from her memory. It achieves this to varying degrees, with some that swear they recall every hellish instant, but the reason the brain attempts to soften the memory is because if she were to fully recall the entire labor event, the reasonable woman would only ever have one child.

Human corporeal existence is one phase of the full process that we're involved in. It's a critical stage, but we have a tendency to amplify it to unrealistic levels of central importance. We're important, but only as a whole. As individuals, we're just lucky to have been allowed to be part of it all. And that's regardless of how our lives turn out.

I've read a lot of the same books, and come to similar conclusions as the OP (I think the Seth books are pretty on the mark)....but with some differences.

I’m left wondering, what is the point here?

That is the big question, isn't it? Even scarier....what if there is NO point? What if just is what it is? Maybe the whole idea of consciousness started itself, and then every time it tried to understand itself, it created an "observer" in order to make the observation in the first place?

Perhaps we'll learn the truth with each "death" and then forget, live again, die again, etc.? Who knows? Maybe we do have to do this repeatedly before being capable of moving on...but then what does that mean? Merging with the Universal Consciousness? (God, whatever label you like).... What about the loss of self there? Is that desirable? So many questions, and each one just generates more questions (kind of like my observer example before).

We may not like some things about reality, but really, it's all we got, that we know of. You may want liberation from it, but by your own beliefs, you are bound and shackled to it, beyond your control. And just what is liberation exactly? The freedom to do what you like?

I kind of think it may be like a certain movie...."What Dreams May Come". Your "heaven" or "hell" is created by your mindset at death. In this "Universe", you are the Supreme being....all is as you like...like a dream, but more vivid, never fleeting, and although you are in control, to combat boredom you let things play out. One person's "Universe" may be fluffy clouds, pearly gates, etc. Another's may be a non-stop orgy reminiscent of Rome...who knows?

Originally posted by Gazrok
I've read a lot of the same books, and come to similar conclusions as the OP (I think the Seth books are pretty on the mark)....but with some differences.

I’m left wondering, what is the point here?

That is the big question, isn't it? Even scarier....what if there is NO point? What if just is what it is? Maybe the whole idea of consciousness started itself, and then every time it tried to understand itself, it created an "observer" in order to make the observation in the first place?

Perhaps we'll learn the truth with each "death" and then forget, live again, die again, etc.? Who knows? Maybe we do have to do this repeatedly before being capable of moving on...but then what does that mean? Merging with the Universal Consciousness? (God, whatever label you like).... What about the loss of self there? Is that desirable? So many questions, and each one just generates more questions (kind of like my observer example before).

We may not like some things about reality, but really, it's all we got, that we know of. You may want liberation from it, but by your own beliefs, you are bound and shackled to it, beyond your control. And just what is liberation exactly? The freedom to do what you like?

I kind of think it may be like a certain movie...."What Dreams May Come". Your "heaven" or "hell" is created by your mindset at death. In this "Universe", you are the Supreme being....all is as you like...like a dream, but more vivid, never fleeting, and although you are in control, to combat boredom you let things play out. One person's "Universe" may be fluffy clouds, pearly gates, etc. Another's may be a non-stop orgy reminiscent of Rome...who knows?

how about, you create your own point?

reply to post by Subjective1


As Spock would say, "Fascinating..." Perhaps that is so. Funny thing is, that until we know otherwise...that is kind of what we do, isn't it?

reply to post by schuyler


While this thread is partially quite depressing, you have great points. Whatever this is, it is not the best I can be. Not the best any of us can be.

You know, I wish more people thought like you. I think our world would be so much happier...


The questions is - how do we break this cycle and free ourselves?

Originally posted by schuyler
If there is not already a movement with similar ideals and goals, it starts here.

There is and it's precisely what you're looking for. I looked into it in some depth myself and although I don't subscribe to it, I do see some sense in it: Temple of the Black Light

Temple of the Black Light (TOTBL) is an international temple dedicated to the Current 218 and its Anti-Cosmic Tradition of Luciferianism/Satanism. The Temple is a manifestation of, and expression for, the adversarial, acosmic forces of the Nightside, and represents a new, wrathful form of Gnostic Left Hand Path. The tradition represented by the TOTBL can best be described as the essence of Anti-Cosmic Gnosticism expressed through the sinister forms of traditional Diabolism. Within our tradition, the Dark Ones (Gods and Goddesses of Sitra Ahra) represent the anti-archonic impulse of the Deus Absconditus and the manifested aspect of the second and left emanation from the Ain Sof. Thus, for us, Satan-Lucifer is the first and highest manifestation of the Black Light, and the opposer and destroyer of the cosmic prison/causal structures established by the tyrant demiurge.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by schuyler

 

I'm not a Buddhist. I'm a Christian.

ditto

I studied world religion when I was 22 years of age.

ditto--English & History major, had to study beaucoup religious & literary culture

I try to make connection to understand what all these mean.

ditto-- until I finally realized it was a colossal waste of time. Just like Kung-Fu Panda, I finally realized that there is no secret ingredient. There is only truth and deception and they cannot be connected to each other.

As far as the nature of God, we are grossly limited as human beings to even remotely begin to attempt to wrap our brain around it. Everything we know, everything that surrounds us, our thoughts, our bodies, our environment, our abstract and our tangible-- it is all finite. Even though brilliant scientists speak of infinity, using infinite concepts, human beings by our very nature are incapable of truly comprehending such a thing.
Having said that, how can we presume to pass any type of informed judgment upon something we have no collective understanding of?
That's like me passing judgment upon someone on the other side of the world based on a picture of them, but on a grander-than-galactic scale with infinite repercussions.
cliche #1: A picture may speak a thousand words,
cliche #2: but looks can be deceiving.
especially if all I had to go by was a snapshot of a particular moment in time, in which I wasn't even present.


I am a believer, but I wrestle with God daily. Not out of rebellion or lack of reverence, but because the most important thing in my life is to get to know and understand Him better. Most days I get a total a$$ whippin', but those occasional days I don't are exquisitely worth it. I still have a long way to go, but I made my decision a while back that I was in it for the long haul.

In all honesty, the most epiphanic momentary glimpses I've ever had into the relationship between God and His creation, are only after becoming a mother.

Sometimes my daughters think I'm the total bad-guy because they don't understand my motives.
They don't understand my reasoning.
They have no concept of my concern and why.
Sometimes I'm shocked at the nerve of my 3 or 5 year-old to question a decision I've made, having no idea of all the other issues and/or people that may be involved and directly affected by it.
They simply don't understand, much less be capable of comprehending my explanation if I gave them one.

For cryin' out loud, at this point they don't even completely understand the concept of "time". I asked my 3 year old if she could remember the last time she saw her shoes and her reply was, "last week a year ago." She had them on earlier that day.
Even though she doesn't understand, and even though she gets frustrated and pi$$ed off at me most of the time, I am patient with her because 1.) I love her; and 2.) As her mother, I am acutely aware of her stage in development and her capabilities at those stages.
But also as her mother, I expect her to listen to my wisdom and to respect my decisions, regardless of whether she agrees with or sees the sensibility in them.
I need her to trust me.
I need her to have faith in my love for her so that I can do what I need to do to be an exceptional parent, wife, friend, and all the other roles that I fulfill each and every day that are all interwoven together and affected by my decisions.
Having said that, I am an imperfect, flawed human being.
If I, flawed as I am, can have those feelings for my children, then I have to trust that God, being perfection itself, already has and has always had the victory.
The simple fact that we are here and exist tells me that even though His creation suffered a deathly blow right out of the gate, so to speak, He already knew and knows that it will still turn out according to His desire, which can only be perfection.
Therefore, I choose to trust in His wisdom and have faith in His love. Now, don't get me wrong, it ain't all puppy dogs and roses and I still get the "WTF's" about all the crappy things in the world. But I also choose to believe that He 1.) Loved me first; and 2.) as my Creator, is aware of my capabilities as well as my flaws

reply to post by schuyler


Reading all those books written by other people won't do anything for you except make you confused.
Each person must figure out it all by themselves. No two life experiences are the same. Anyone thats says.. "I am the Way..follow me to paradice" is just on his or her own EGO trip and hasn't learned anything.

Your secound point about folks that die and see friends and loved one long dead, is about a 90% truth to it. Then you said your supposed to "Walk into the Light". Well folks thats where your wrong. Now if you want to continue the endless circle of re-birth, re-programming, forgeting everything you learned, forgeting everyone you knew, forgeting everything about yourself. Then be my guest and walk into the Light. And you'll begin the process of wiping everything you had learned. You'll be made into a clean slate, and sent back to be merged with a new birthed body. Doomed to have to re-learn everything you learned int he previous incarnation. And never learning to raise your vibrational rate so you can BY-PASS the circle of re-birth.

Some say thre no way to break the karmatic wheel which were doomed to repeat over and over and over again to infinity. But there is..

Its all rather simple, you just have to know yourself in all its faccets, and when its time to "Walk into the Light" just say NO.

It really puts a problem into the works. And your not looked upon as a good little sheeple, cattle. Your marked as a REBEL. Trouble maker. And you can go back to the 3rd deminsional world you once lived on, learned from, loved from, and died from.

What do you think Ghosts are? There are certain folk that have learned to say NO. And exist here on our space time existence, slightly out of phase. But there here. And there learning all the extra things that they didn't learn in life. Its not a prision. its not some weird form of imaginary hell. Nope its by CHOSE.

Why follow the herd mentality when you can be an individual. Why follow the herd and be condemned to an infinity of lifetimes, never rising above a certain point.

Some say that being an individual would make you evil, would make you think you could rise above all the rest, break the chain and become....possible the God within yourself which was ment to become.

Well...few if any ever listen to what I write. And I'm not the messanger. We all know what happens to the Messenger... There killed, by folks that can't understand the simple logic. Then turn the messengers words into some foolish religion that they can lord over the masses and make themselves rich.

Hope that helps you OP. Just remeber to say NO...

Its good to be a REBEl in all things..::grins:: I've been doing it along time..

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Subjective1

 

As Spock would say, "Fascinating..." Perhaps that is so. Funny thing is, that until we know otherwise...that is kind of what we do, isn't it?

reply to post by 11118


Thanks, your message really made my day And I did learn something from that, I learned how capable and deeply I can care about people. But it still hurts to think about her and see her nonetheless