Marines Chief Warns Most Are Uncomfortable Serving With Openly Gay Troops

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dolphinfan, so it seems that the premise of your argument is based on the fact that sex does occur in the military.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the Pentagon to enact a blanket policy that forbid sexual relations between soldiers rather than segregate? After all, most companies in the civilian world have strict policies against having sex with one's co-workers for obvious reasons. Why not the military?

If no one can have sex with anyone in the military then where is the pressure and uncomfortableness coming from? When sex isn't allowed anything based upon gender or sexual preference is a non-issue and irrelevant.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by adifferentbreed

 

Why shouldn't someone be able to serve their country, especially if they're openly gay?

I still don't understand why denying someone the ability to do so is acceptable in today's society.

"especially if they are openly gay".......................why should it be especially. The military says no, for good reasons, the vast majority of military members say no, and frankly it's up to them........I don't understand why in todays society you would want to put homosexuals in harms way deliberatey, makes no snese at all.

Yeah I'm sorry but this is a non issue.

It's not like people don't know who the gay military members are already. It's not that easy to hide folks. This is just more bickering over a non issue.

There's no reason to not allow gays to serve openly. It will not jeapordize national security or make the job harder for all the active duty members.

If the only problem is that it will make them uncomfortable, well too bad. Luckily you don't have to the right to not be offended.

~Keeper

reply to post by adifferentbreed


There are a lot of nations that have "integrated" in an adult, and open manner, and they are experiencing no difficulties:

Countries that Allow Military Service by Openly Gay People ("Current as of June 2009")

And, of course, the ubiquitous Wiki:

Most Western military forces have now removed policies excluding non-heterosexual individuals (with strict policies on sexual harassment). Of the 26 countries that participate militarily in NATO, more than 22 permit gay people to serve; of the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, three (Britain, France, Russia) permit gay people to serve openly and one (China) does not.

en.wikipedia.org...

See there? NATO. Already working alongside.

As mentioned, most who are gay have already integrated, witin their small group of comrades. The knuckle-draggers will learn, eventually....and, as in ANY case of impropriety, regardless of genders involved, disciplinary action, up to and including discharge from service, should be the "law of the land"....

reply to post by adifferentbreed


Ditto on your arguments.

As long as the openly gay members keep to themselves, what's the big deal?

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes, America, the greatest country in the world, still insists on dragging behind other countries when it comes to progress on gay rights.

I don't know about the rest of the folks in this country, but I'd rather start living in the 21st Century rather than the 19th Century with the rest of the knuckle-draggers.

bad enough the military has blacks,women and muslims in the ranks, eh?
-and mexicans that arent even citizens.

As I am not in the military my only contribution to this is from studies done in my country, Canada.

Source - Wikipedia

"Lifting of restrictions on gay and lesbian service in the Canadian Forces has not led to any change in military performance, unit cohesion, or discipline."


Canada lifted the ban in 1992, study was completed in 2001, so it is backed by 9 years of example.

I was trying to access the actual study done by the Canadian Forces, haven't found a free edition yet. I will update when I find it.

reply to post by peck420


Also, Canada has very strict rules in the military about relationships. They are not allowed. No fraternizing sexually at all.

There is a big difference between intergration into being open, and just forcing it on everyone. It will not only lead to violence against some, but outright lies from others of harrassment seeking renumerations. If it is to be done, it needs to be done over time, not just aall at once on the whim of some biased attourney.

Just out of curiousity.

How does the US military deal with multinational training exercises?

Whenever there is joint action between US - Canada/Australia/UK/Israel, they will be having US troops act in a standard military fashion with miltaries with open gay policies. This includes the bunking, latrine, etc duties that some have cited for problems. That being said, I have never heard or seen reports of issues.

Shouldn't that be a pretty good indicator for what would happen if the US openly accepts homosexual troops?

reply to post by adifferentbreed

It will not only lead to violence against some, but outright lies from others of harrassment seeking renumerations.

Purely speculative.

However, there will ALWAYS be instances of abhorrent behavior...as I said, the military codes should deal with misconduct.

There have already, for some time, been cases of sexual harrassment, male/female (as everyone is no doubt aware). The policy of "DADT" has made it worse, in some ways....men whose sexual advances were rebuffed, trying to accuse the woman of being a "lesbian" as retribution, for example.

I wouldn't be surprised if the military tries to keep these cases out of public view, whenever possible, so we only know of the tip of the iceberg.

I think some guy who thinks he's a "god's gift" kind of stud, and irresistable to women is a FAR worse threat than a gay man, or woman....who, contrary to this "Marine Chief's" apparent opinion, are not constantly on the prowl for sex....unlike some straight men can appear to be....

reply to post by weedwhacker


And??

Simply because other countries militaries allow gays to openly serve doesn't mean that the US military must follow suit.

Well, they could always go to the other extreme and not have any segregation. Men, women, gays & lesbians live, sleep. shower everything around one another. True equality for everyone, after time it will be normal.

They should put them all in a gay platoon. When they go to battle, put them in their little speedos, gyrating on each other. It's disgusting.

We can make ecstasy (MDMA) dispersant bombs, which will, for all practical purposes turn the enemy soldiers gay. Once they start rubbing themselves and each other, we can drop glowsticks and speedos on the enemy...

... and then they can all gyrate on each other.

It's disgusting.

Yours truly,
Carl Paladino

I support gay rights in every case that it comes up. However, in our military, I think the 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy works in the interests of the gay community. Why? Because it protects them from violence. We all know that even in our open society that violence against gay people is quite common....I can only imagine how much worse it would be in our military.

reply to post by fraterormus


Its not about having sex per-se.

Why would it be OK to have gay men showering with other men when it is not OK to have hetero men showering with women?

There are areas of the military where there are no walls between bathroom stalls. Is it reasonable to ask a woman to relieve herself next to a gent doing the same? I don't think that its reasonable and I don't believe that open gays should share living space, in the terms defined by shared living space in the military with hetero men. It would be more reasonable for open gays to share intimate living space with members of the opposite sex than with the same sex

The sex argument is the same thing as telling teenagers not to have sex. Sounds great in practice, but impractical to think it will actually happen.

From the OP - Adifferentbreed

So even though it will disrupt our military, and quite possibly our national security the military is still gonna abide by a ruling made by a biased judge?

hmm, thats funny, whatever happened to this:

I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

So much for that oath, if a bunch of gays can disable our military.

reply to post by adifferentbreed


I was in the military - no one gave a flying crap about gay or not gay.

Everyone knows who the gay guys are.

As long as they keep to themselves, there's no problem.

Don't ask-don't tell is a fairly dumb rule - all that is needed are the normal sexual harassment rules that apply to all work places.