U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Sex isn't a "duty" nor is it an obligation.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
It most certainly is a duty and an obligation.

...the only way either of the above concepts could be accurate is if we all defined marriage the same way and took the same marriage vows - and - that is not how it is, never has been that way and, hopefully, never will be...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Sex is the #1 ingrained instinct in human beings. It is the most important part of our psyche, so it is certainly the most important part of our marriages.

...eating is the primary instinct... if sex was, we'd come out of the shoot looking for something to screw...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks

...eating is the primary instinct... if sex was, we'd come out of the shoot looking for something to screw...

Actually, neither hunger nor sex are instincts. They are drives. There is a difference. Feel free to look it up.

reply to post by Americanist

U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage,
Ha ha...and so is happiness... bada bing...Hey my wife said she wanted to go on a trip, somewhere she has never been, I said try the kitchen...don't forget to tip the waitress and I'll be here all week ladies and gentlemen.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Actually, neither hunger nor sex are instincts. They are drives. There is a difference. Feel free to look it up.

...well, ya know, you can go too far with this egg-head stuff and just suffocate all humor...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


True and true. Unfortunately I am unable to find much humor in the topic.

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by Americanist

 

U.K. cleric: Rape is impossible within marriage,
Ha ha...and so is happiness... bada bing...Hey my wife said she wanted to go on a trip, somewhere she has never been, I said try the kitchen...don't forget to tip the waitress and I'll be here all week ladies and gentlemen.

edit on 14-10-2010 by chrismarco because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-10-2010 by chrismarco because: (no reason given)

Forced to make food or forced to have sex... Not really a comparison, but here's regarding your thoughts...

There's such thing called Women's Charter to protect rights of women including post-marriage life. The husband has no right to use force over his wife to commit sexual intercourse. If the woman denies the husband ability to copulate for long period of time without any reasons, the husband can take the case to court and file a divorce.

The emphasis is on non-violence consensual relationship.

Women must be respected. Any man who thinks he can be financially irresponsible and owns his wife as a relentless sex machine, should consider converting to gay life (preferably before marriage).

Likewise, men must be respected. Any woman who thinks she can get too busy in work life and not reproducing enough children for the population, should consider converting to lesbian life (preferably before marriage).

reply to post by wisdomnotemotion


I was born a lesbian in a male's body... Damn the luck!

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Sex isn't a "duty" nor is it an obligation.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
It most certainly is a duty and an obligation.

...the only way either of the above concepts could be accurate is if we all defined marriage the same way and took the same marriage vows - and - that is not how it is, never has been that way and, hopefully, never will be...

Doesn't matter, sex is never a duty or obligation....

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Marriage does not mean you can have sex with your partner whenever you desire, please get this simple fact into your head.

Sex isn't a "duty" nor is it an obligation.

It most certainly is a duty and an obligation.

Why do you think governments throughout history have given special benefits to married couples? For procreation. More warriors, more tax payers. Why do you think religions have given special treatment to married couples? More little religious nuts. Why do you think gay marriage is so despised? Because it comes with gay sex!

If anybody believes sex is not the most significant part of marriage, they need to research a little further, or talk to a marriage counselor, or a divorce lawyer.

Money and sex! #1 driving forces in the world, #1 driving force in relationships, #1 driving force in divorces. And money is only important because it helps get more sex!

No it isn't, please broaden your horizions.

Seriously, what man in his right mind would get married today.

And I ask that question seriously.

As a man of some 52 years who has, "Been there done that", I am advising my son accordingly.

I see ZERO upside for him, or me.

reply to post by Americanist

Rape is never OK, whomever does it.

This brings me back to my point - I don't think it is possible for people with Muslim beliefs to live in non-Muslim countries. They will either try to impose their beliefs insidiously, or maybe they will wage war to impose their beliefs.

Please look at my previous threads - I have always said that Muslim people should live in Muslim countries - this is not a racist thing, it is a socialist thing. It is what people are used to. You cannot move into a foreign country and demand everything you are used to.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do" is a very old quote.

And, as I have said in previous posts, if non-Muslims lived in a muslim country there would be no question of bringing in their beliefs full stop.

So I suggest that all Muslims living in non-muslim countries either respect the beliefs of those countries, or leave.

Otherwise, it will cause yet more warfare.

On a human right's level, I disagree with the man in the quoted source.

But when you get into the topic of marriage, that's a whole different ball game. Marriage is a bondage, especially for men, and if a women is to refuse sex from her husband, than why did she marry him in the first place? Has he physically damaged her or hit her?

The stupidity of people and double standards astounds me. Charges for rape under marriage should be removed with exception of special marriage terms. Marriage (under most cases) means monogamy between those two people, if a man is refused outlet for his sexual drive, it will come out likely in 1 or two forms, cheating, or rape.

If the man resorts to cheating, then who's obligated for fault? The man? Or the women who's obligated to play her role in the monogamy?

And what about divorce? There are issues there too. It's quite often, in fact very often that women will bribe or blackmail men into marrying them. Hell, my mother threatened to take off with me unless my dad married her.

Where to equal opportunity for rights play there?

Another obligation in marriage is shared financial support, I guess it's fair enough for the man to take his wife's money to pay for a hooker a couple times a week

Well, isn't that just a daisy!? Marriage is a privilege and not a right. Somebody needs to make sure this "cleric" has a current calendar.

reply to post by Death_Kron

Thats why islam allow more then one marriage[

Islam allows muslime men to marry 4 girls MAX at a time. but this is only possible if the his wife or wives give permission to him. without their permission he is not allowed. Wars and disasters. exposure of chemicals to our foods proved that women will always out number men in number. According to Census 2000, 281.4 million people were counted in the United States — 143.4 million of whom were female and 138.1 million male. So where these girls will go? Guys keep more then 1 girl friends at same time but they feel little ashamed when it comes to marriage. Because marriage shows the intention of long lasting relation. and it is giving respect to that relation. if we see the picture in combination with this then Men wont bother to rape wife, if she is not willing. Islam encourages wife to respect the desires of their husbands but same time it clears that marriage is relation in which man have to care for his wife more then anyone else. then how come one can hurt his wife believing that islam allowed this?

/headline]

reply to post by Death_Kron

I am agree.. 100% '!the motives of motives.

I respect freedom but want to share my point of view. How much years Humankind will take for extinction, if the whole world becomes Gay? 50?

reply to post by mustfarhan


Hi, Islam.

You allow a lot of marriages.

So, men are important and women are just something less than men.

Presumably your god preaches that.

Have you ever thought about the concept that people are created equal?

I’m shocked and disgusted to come back to the thread and find there are other people that clearly have no idea what marriage is all about and think sex is the duty of the woman to provide to the male on demand.

There are some seriously screwed up opinions here in this thread and I ask you this.... Is there any wonder there are so many divorces in our modern era!!

You lot need to learn the satisfaction of what it is to make someone else happy!!!!

Korg.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Why do you think governments throughout history have given special benefits to married couples? For procreation. More warriors, more tax payers. Why do you think religions have given special treatment to married couples?

Are you telling us that every time you demand sex from your wife you are doing it in order to procreate?
You feel a need to create 104 babies each year?

Marriage does not equal procreation. Look at all the single parents around; did a lack of married status ever prevent a person conceiving? Marriage has traditionally been about companionship and providing a stable, protective environment in which to raise children. Raising children does not require screwing twice a week.

Btw, is twice a week really considered often? I have found twice a night barely adequate. However, despite feeling horny, I would never have dreamed of giving my husband the ultimatum, "do it or I'll go to the local bar and do it with a stranger."

By the way, anyone who finds coerced sex a turn-on is seriously sick.

Speaking as a woman, don't be surprised if treating your wife in this way causes a growing hatred of you in her heart. You might think you're a smart man, but it's quite likely that one day you'll pay the price for such callous behaviour.

I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but I'd invite people to take a few moments away from venting their disgust at some horrible principle that us civilised westerners could never, ever accept, and compare the following two quotes.

Sheikh Maulana Abu Sayeed, who is president of the Islamic Sharia Council, told a website that "sex is part of marriage" and suggested that husbands who commit such acts should not be prosecuted.

Quote from original post

But the husband cannot be guilty of a rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, for by their mutual matrimonial consent and contract the wife hath given up herself in this kind unto her husband which she cannot retract.

Quote from Matthew Hale’s History of the Pleas of the Crown in 1736. This is the basis on which common law countries have excluded "rape" within marriages for the last few hundred years, right up until the late 20th Century. Many other jurisdictions appeared to have some kind of similar exception.

US - exception abolished by states from 1965 up to 1993
England & Wales - abolished in 1991
Germany - abolished in 1997
...list goes on...

I completely agree that marital rape is wrong, but it would be hypocritical to condemn Islam when many of you may live in a place where marital rape was legal in your own lifetime. Condemn them for continuing to uphold it, yes, but be careful throwing stones when your own house was, until recently, made of glass.