You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

reply to post by Unity_99


Thank you Unity, your posts always add so much to the thread.

Yes, now days it might be better to let one's son make the decision himself when he is old enough.

It would then not be a forced trauma, but a decision.

My oldest son has told me he wishes he wasn't circumcised, some of his buddy's at the pool hall tell him "it's better being uncircumcised".

Anyway, again nobody should be cutting anything off of anyone (including animals) unless whatever is being cut off is diseased.

And then for god sake give the person / animal, anesthesia and pain medicine.

My dog when he had to have a tumor removed, I made darn sure he had pain medicine.

And my doctor knows that if I have a medical "procedure" done to not be stingy with the pain killers.

In my book, pain is bad.

Oh, on this I totally agree!
My son is now 29. He is my only child because complications at delivery, a massive blood loss requiring a 10 unit whole blood transfusion and then surgery. I was in intensive care for 2-3 days, and pretty well drugged up to the max. People would ask me things and I would do it, but don't remember much. When I was finally moved to a regular maternity room, my doctor came in and said my son would be brought to me in a little while, and that he was screaming and angry. When I asked why, I was told he had just be circumcised. I had not wanted it done, but had apparently been given the infomation and signature of approval the previous day.....while I was still in intensive care and drugged. It was too late to reverse, no "harm" had been done over and above removing sensitive tissue from my son without even numbing........and I was still hopped up enough to just drop it.
I don't know if it's because I am not litigious, or if it was just before the seeming massive amount of medical malpractice lawsuits, but nothing was done.
It's a cruel unnecessary practice that should NOT be done. And the people who disagree should have it done the same way as the children they are okay with mutilating, strapped to a table, without numbing (too early to spell the medical term correctly), and scraping it off with a scalpel.

reply to post by Unity_99


Really? No big thing?

Do you know a man has several erections during the sleep cycle. Yeah, I bet it would just pleasurable to wake up in the middle of the night screaming at the top of your lungs.

Oh, let me see if I can find any stories about when they made it mandatory in the military.
History of Circumcision

The US military was another important influence. Around the turn of the last century, circumcision of infants was still rather rare, though circumcision of older boys was gaining in popularity. During World War I, the military led a concerted effort to circumcise soldiers and sailors because it was believed that this would make them less susceptible to venereal disease; military discipline forced men to submit to a procedure they would never have agreed to had it been left to their own decision. Thousands of men were circumcised in their late teens and early 20s. When these men returned home and became fathers, doctors began asking whether they wanted their newborn sons circumcised. Many, remembering the pain that they or their buddies endured from the operation as adults, said yes, thinking it would avoid having to do it later, when the pain was thought to be worse than in infancy. Most babies, however, continued to be born at home and were not circumcised.

Wow, humorous and a good memory.

I was told that at night, those with the procedure would wake up screaming. I think my grandfather told me about it.

I bet it was like getting a tooth pulled. NOT.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Well that would be enough to change ones perception of pain. I feel for you, and that gives me a lot of insight.
That all could be pretty damaging emotionally.

I have crashed more cars and motorcycles than I care to admit. So pain is kind of an old friend for me. Not at all masochistic, but it can go along with my fun...that is until I run out of talent, usually mid corner. Have you ever watched off road rally racing? I'm the loose nut behind the wheel.

I just want to say that this guy is glad he does not remember the experience, and glad it was done then.
I am proud of my penis, as it does most of my thinking for me.
Keep that in mind.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum

I believe that circumcision plays a role in comprising men at birth by emasculating them on a deep psychological level.

I believe you are right.........scientists are now beginning to realize this.

Very insightful post. Thank you for your input.

Again, a imprinted trauma, particularly on a infant never goes away, it simply recedes.

The human brain retains every single event that occurs from before birth to death.

reply to post by davespanners


I am not saying they are not both genital mutilation. But one is done in a third world country on a pre-adolescent girl, who is very well aware of what is going on.
And no, women are not happy with a choice. You are talking about countries were women are not allowed to publicly discuss being raped. And the decision for fgm is done by the family.It is not done by medical staff, and there is more psychological trauma.

In context, they are the same. But the conditions are different. It IS a hypocrisy but not as much as people think.
You dont' have children here bleeding out and dying from infection because the creepy uncle had no idea what they are doing. Not to mention being a young girl and being molested by the men during the process. It is the conditions that people are arguing.

That being said. I have known men who have had to have an adult circumcision due to infections. And they said it is far worse as an adult then it is as a baby.


Is there a need for circumcision, period? Probably not.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


Very good post Ad............very good reasoning.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Thanks.

I wonder sometimes if it is possible that the trauma of being comprised as an infant is what leads to the issues women face today in their relationships with men. Like how few men satisfy their partners, the womanizing that women complain about, and other kinds of issues.

I remember reading somewhere that the foreskin actually aids in vaginal orgasms due to the rhythmic motion created, the ability for the male to last longer, and added lubrication. It wouldn't surprise me at all if psychological ramifications were even greater.

I wish I could run studies on it. I'd make a career out of it.

Oh yeah.. the good old cut vs uncut thread. I don't have anything more to add to this thread than what already been said, but I want to say that circumcision is not natural, no other animal does it. Foreskin is there for a damn good reason. And the dumb argument that it is easier to get diseases if you're uncircumcised are some of the dumbest garbage I ever heard. That may be true if you live 1000 years ago and regular showers are not something you do very often.

reply to post by silo13


Actually plenty of people subject themselves to plastic surgery.

reply to post by nixie_nox


But they elect for it.

There is a huge difference when you have a say in the matter.

reply to post by frozenspark


Other animals don't raise their young for 20 years either. This is why blanket comparisons to the animal kingdom don't fly.

reply to post by AdAbsurdum


But my point still stands. People have unnecessary surgery all the time. For the same reasons I might add. To be asthetically pleasing.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Wait, so if I decide you'd look better without your labia it's ok for me to go in there with out your consent for aesthetic reasons?

Female Genital Mutilation is a wonderful wonderful thing. I cannot believe how many times I have found myself in a conversation with a male trying to tell me about mutilations in some country they know nothing about. More often then not, I have to listen to some man pick out a culture that practices female circumcision so they can tell me how terrible the women are treated there. There is a big difference between opening the hood and raping someone with a knife. What is popularly called female genital mutilation is actually a procedure that exposes the clitoris more. The results are the following.
-increased sex drive
-mild touches become intensely pleasurable
-orgasms are far easier to achieve and always extremely intense

So while I am listening to men complain that their wives are frigid and women in other countries need to be saved, I enjoy a flight of stairs more than any other female I know.

This is one case where feminists can be kind of stupid. How can female circumcision be a crime against humanity and represent female oppression while male circumcision is just routine medical procedure? DOUBLE STANDARD!

I am against both myself, though personally I do prefer not having a foreskin.

BTW, this idea that a child remembers the trauma, there is a reason you don't remember anything from a young age.
The brain is completely redeveloped and changes when a child learns to speak. This is why infants don't remember anything. The human brain is erased in order to accomodate the mass information that is the human language. You have no memories before learning to speak.

So this notion that a person is traumatized from somethign they can't remember is bunk.

Babyhood is uncomfortable...period.

I am far more concernced about parents forcing CIO on an infant then circumcision. I am far more concerned about parents who dump their children in a room seperate from them for 12 hours at a time on an infant that doesn't even know they are a seperate human being from. How about nightly abandonement on the parents behalf? Because society tells us that children should sleep like adults at the age of six months, and we are supposed to keep them seperate and in cages? Adn then they wonder why their children are unattached and aloof.

I am far more concerned about the parents who leave their babies to scream for hours a night for the sake of some sleep then about a 15 minute procedure.

And then we wonder why Americans have the worst sleep habits.

See, Americans inflict all sorts of travesties on their babies. This procedure is the least of my concerns.

Really it is just an American thing for folks to get circumcised who are not jewish or maybe muslim..only a very small minority get circumcised in uk for example every year. www.cirp.org... Like i said, only benefit if you can say that is cosmetic, it has negatives though...

reply to post by ofhumandescent

...............I find it rather puzzling that circumcision is referred to as 'mutilating'.....from what I've read and heard, nowadays infants are given an anesthetic at the time......all in all, it is healthier to not have a foreskin to have to constantly clean!!!!!! oh well, just my opinion......

Originally posted by Curiousisall
Female Genital Mutilation is a wonderful wonderful thing. I cannot believe how many times I have found myself in a conversation with a male trying to tell me about mutilations in some country they know nothing about. More often then not, I have to listen to some man pick out a culture that practices female circumcision so they can tell me how terrible the women are treated there. There is a big difference between opening the hood and raping someone with a knife. What is popularly called female genital mutilation is actually a procedure that exposes the clitoris more. The results are the following.
-increased sex drive
-mild touches become intensely pleasurable
-orgasms are far easier to achieve and always extremely intense

So while I am listening to men complain that their wives are frigid and women in other countries need to be saved, I enjoy a flight of stairs more than any other female I know.

Awesome! I like your take on this. It is not mutilation at all.

BTW, My dog farts when he climbs stairs. It's not the same, but he likes it too.