meat = shorter life

Originally posted by marg6043
Processed and refined food items is a modern disease that is killing Americans with diabetes and hart diseases, in another decade we are to become the nations with the most diabetic people in the world, and that is after the FDA made the food pyramid high in fiber and fruits, but forgot to tell people to stay away from refined foods and sugar.

The FDA knows this but they share a revolving door with big pharma, big agra, Monsanto, Dow etc... sick people is big business.

I noticed that all these enemies of meat seem to avoid the real threats to our health and food system like GMOs, hormones, antibiotics, pesticides, herbicides, chemical fertilizers, preservatives, MSG, refined carbs, sugars, HFCS, artificial sweeteners, BPA leaching from plastics etc... take all these contaminants out of the food supply that are known to cause diseases in people and in lab animals and meat will be the least of our health concerns... Instead like programmed religious New Age Mother Earth lovin humanity hatin zombies it's all about the dangers of something that we've eaten for thousands of years without which none of us would be here to talk about.

reply to post by soleprobe


You are very right, another thing that we are now becoming deficient on is minerals no even organic foods can replace the lost of minerals in our bodies, our soil is so over worked that we no longer can rely on nature to give us what our bodies need, then you have big pharma and the medical community advertising that hypertension worst enemy is sodium, then they want to prescribe you diuretics yes plain processed table salt is killing us, but natural raw salts help supply the body with minerals, we are dying of dehydration even with all the water we drink, (for many is just sodas) because we don't get enough minerals to keep the water in our bodies the way is suppose to be

Originally posted by Ong Bak

Originally posted by weemadmental
what a lot of nonsense this is, all you need to know is that the teeth in your mouth have evolved to allow us to eat both meat and veg, there are lots of different factors in life that stop us from reaching old age. if you look at vegans and vegetarians you will see that they need to consume extra vitamins and minerals not found in plants to stay healthy, if they dont they dont have a long life, you just have to take things in moderation

Wee Mad

was unaware that teeth evolve.
also, wheres teh study taht shows any of this? seems like your just using your own empircal "evidence" and fact.
and exactly what vitamins and minerals are there in meat that a vegetarian wont be able to get without taking a pill?

Not sure if you where being sarcastic but...

teeth do evolve



our teeth change over time you know.

reply to post by Ong Bak



It is all about the calories. The veggies eat less calories and that has been proven to improve the overall lifespan of any organism. They have just developed a new pill to mimic the effect of low calorie intake. So it is not about eating meat or plants, but the overall total calorie consumption. If this investigation had taken the calorie intake into consideration I belive the story would present itself quite clearly.

reply to post by loner007


But mlik cheese and eggs are even bad to hardcore vegans. I am sticking to my hamburgers and sloppy joes. it is also proven meat gives more protein than a bananna. I even exercise 2 to 3 times a week.

=d

If the anunnaki wanted humans to eat only vegetables then we would have been created with rabbit ears and teeth. We are omnivorous for a reason. If the end of the world happened and the only thing good enough to eat was vegetables then that is what I would eat. Until then let me enjoy my life.

It's actually not all that uncommon in nature for animals that are classified as herbivores to partake in occasional meat-eating, so to bluntly state that humans "aren't meant to eat meat" is ignorant at best. Though of course people do have the right to do as they please and choose not to eat certain foods for purposes of religious reasons,.health reasons, personal belief or whatever.

Check out this bloodthirsty Bambi (surely not something Walt Disney would of had in mind!):
deer eats bird

This also illustrates how it is more difficult (but not impossible) to get essential nutrients by eating an entirely plant-based diet. Dedicated herbivores like this deer (deer are committed plant eaters and ruminants with multiple stomach chambers just like cows and they also chew their cud) will occasionally eat animal protein to help supplement their nutritional needs. Also, herbivorous birds like Amazonian parrots eat clay in order to get minerals that they can't get from the plants they eat. Speaking of Disney animals, 'ol Thumper also has a disgusting (at least in our eyes) habit to get more nutrients out of his food - anyone who has had a rabbit or knows anything about them knows all too well about how they "recycle" their food by eating their feces. Other animals like dogs occasionally indulge in this gross activity (though they often prefer to procure the fecal matter of other species like cats) but rabbits do so habitually because they can't get all that they need the first time around.

Speaking of cud-chewing, the reason such animals have this sort of adaption is because they have to re-process (similar to the rabbit but not as nasty-looking) what they eat to survive on such a diet.

Otoh, dedicated carnivores like cats have absolutely no ability to process plant matter (though even they will bend the rules and eat grass and other greens to help cleanse their guts and get rid of hairballs, bone fragments and such) with the teeth or gut.

If full time carnivores like cats are black, and full time herbivores like cows are white, then humans fall somewhere in the grey area, perhaps slightly closer to the cow but certainly not at either extreme. This is another reason that humanity has conquered the earth - it has been shown all down thru the fossil record (and with unfortunate living species that are very rare due to human activity, and the recently extinct) that animals that are die-hard specialists with regards to diet are basically the first to go when the going gets tough. Consider the giant panda - it is a bear (which is classified in the order carnivora no less) that is still able to process meat (and will occasionally kill domestic sheep in the wild where it comes into contact with humans and domestic animals) but for the most part prefers only bamboo. There are carnivores that also go down this path of locking themselves into eating one or few types of animal, like the snail eating kite. If not for humanity as the threat to these animals' survival it would be something else like an asteroid, or a climactic/geologic event.


With regards to animals that do or don't have canines, teeth are only part of equation. Consider this prehistoric killer that had practically no canine teeth (the actual canines were tiny nubs):
marsupial "lion"
This animal apparently killed its prey by the slicing action of its molar teeth and its closest living relative is the wombat, another herbivore.

Also, animals like gorillas, chimps and baboons have long, sharp canine teeth basically for interspecific intimidation; in otherwords more or less the same thing as a man who goes to the gym to bulk up to intimidate other men or a buck deer with a big antler rack. If the intimidation fails, then a fight may break out. This is why only the males have the large canines. The teeth in these animals have practically nothing to do with diet and everything to do with domination and intimidation. There are also other omnivores and herbivores with huge, sharp canines or incisors like hippos and wild boars that can cause grave or fatal injury to other animals.

Finally, there is the whole issue of the domestication of animals and modern farming methods which could make meat less healthy to eat. Even if you discount the drugs and hormones and often deplorable conditions that food animals are subjected to, one still must consider how far removed from the natural state most of these animals are. I eat free range chickens and believe me, they look nothing like what you usually get in the grocery store and they taste a whole lot better. They only weigh about 3-4lbs and are no where near the size of those big fat greasy blobs often found in the poultry isle. What passes for food today, especially the meats, are far from what people would have eaten ages ago.

People who eat meat have shorter lives and various health problems not associated with vegetarian diets. I'm willing to believe that. However, I think if a study were done on the subject, it would find that most vegans and vegetarians are pushy, sanctimonious, and obnoxious when it comes to other people's dietary and lifestyle choices.

So meat makes you dead, but vegetables make you insufferable. If I become insufferable, I actually have to live with it. So I think I'll choose meat.

Originally posted by loner007
reply to post by xEphon

 

if u had bothered to read any of my posts i made you would have found that I had said Humans are physiologically frugivours herbivours and insectivours. W are not designed to eat meat PERIOD.

if you had bothered to look up what an insectivore is, you would find that it is a subcategory of carnivore.
as it has been repeated over and over again we are omnivores, why is this such a hard thing to get?

Originally posted by pepsi78
It's been a while since I have not eaten meet, it feels great.
I would recomand it to anyone who wishes to feel better in general.
Stop feeding on the week, we are evolved animals, we should make a difference.

good for you, but maybe some people don't find that it feels great, maybe the loss of what they enjoy makes life less great.
stop trying to tell people what to do, they have a natural right to eat what they want.

Originally posted by Ong Bak
so i read an article the other day taht cited some study with thousands of men and women conducted over a period of like 25 years that showed a direct relationship between meat consumption and increased mortality rates/shorter life spans.
im not here to argue the validty of said study, im jsut wondering if the amount of people int he study, it think it was liek 50k people and the length of the study (25 years) is long enough to prove once and for all that what many well educated peopel have known for alogn time, that meat will kill you slowly, its legit?
or will meat eaters continue to deny the obvious fact that its poisoning their bodies becasue they jsut like to eat dead animals?

lol meat is poison??? u say fact???

haha ridiculous and freaking hilarious...theres no fact here...the only thing more natural than eating meat is having sex.

Well that is no really truth, people that eat high carbohydrate diet and sugars with processed fats live shorter lives and are bound to be obese and suffer from type 2 diabetes.

people that eat animal fats low carbs and stay away from sugars live as long.

The key here is processed, anything processed, man made and manufactured oils.

seriously, i was thinking of going vegetarian for like a week, but can anyone tell me for a garenteed fact it is a healthier lifestyle? I am a big meat eater but think this diet is unhealthy, i just look at my current fat belly (kinda, but getting there) and inability to climb 6 flights of stairs withuot being out of breath. Is it all diet? Plus i aint to great about the way animals are treated if i am honest. Seen another thread here recently and the video was unbelievable.

Originally posted by Ong Bak
so i read an article the other day taht cited some study with thousands of men and women conducted over a period of like 25 years that showed a direct relationship between meat consumption and increased mortality rates/shorter life spans.
im not here to argue the validty of said study, im jsut wondering if the amount of people int he study, it think it was liek 50k people and the length of the study (25 years) is long enough to prove once and for all that what many well educated peopel have known for alogn time, that meat will kill you slowly, its legit?
or will meat eaters continue to deny the obvious fact that its poisoning their bodies becasue they jsut like to eat dead animals?

...............Funny how the meat lovers always make fun of this fact......first off, our teeth and digestive organs are essentially the same as the gorilla's; a powerful animal, to be sure!!! do they eat meat?? NOOOOOOO...also think of the ox; how strong they are, the work they can do, etc........meat eaters? NOOOOOOOOO.....also the lion; oh, he's ferocious and can tear you limb from limb, but is he as STRONG as the ox or gorilla? why, HELL NO!!!!!!!!!...................of course we can eat meat if we choose to, but just think of it this way; your poor digestive organs have to work and work and work to digest this dead flesh;;;;;;;;;;;admit it, that's what meat is, dead flesh!!!!!!!! so go ahead and argue if you like, but meat-eating is NOT the best thing for the human body......and I won't even BEGIN to get into the environmental aspects of raising beef cattle, the grain and water used.....oh yes, if the animal itself eats grains, why don't we just do the same!????????????

Just a few points:

- Regarding The China Study, the book: Sugar, starch and beer consumption was ignored by Campbell. He showed complete disregard. In fact, Campbell spends only a couple of paragraphs describing starch and sugar's effects.

- Campbell also devotes an entire chapter to autoimmune diseases allegedly caused by milk consumption and yet there's not one mention of the auto immune diseases caused by wheat consumption.

- This is a point that isn't stressed enough: Vegetarians are much more health conscious than their omnivorous counterparts. They, generally, exercise more, avoid junk food, don't smoke and drink, at most, moderately. People who eat animal meat typically eat it with a side of potatoes and a large soda. They also tend to smoke and drink and exercise less.

- We are not Ruminants. We don't have the ablility to digest green leafy vegetables with caloric efficiency. Ruminants have bacteria in their gut that consumes the plant material (fermentation). They then consume the bacteria. The end result is fat. The fuel that ruminants get from glucose and starch and cellulose is fat. Since humans have very little ablility to ferment....we have to go directly to the source: FAT It is the predominant fuel for the body when at rest or light exercise.

- Also, it is impossible to have a big brain AND a big gut. A big larger gut is required to digest the amount of vegetation consumed by herbivorous animals. That large of a gut is very calorically demanding, which takes away from the most calorically demanding organ...the brain. So, looking back at our ancestors, when we began eating meat we had no need for such a large gut, the gut decreased in size and the left over calories were available for brain development. It's likely that we can attribute our brain size and our latest stint of evolutionary history to the cooking and consumption of animal products (cooking allows for greater bioavailability and more calories).

Is a vegetarian diet better than the Standard American Diet? Hell yes. But it's not because of the exclusion of animal products; it's because of the exclusion of processed foods, sugary foods, and a chronic negative caloric balance.

Most of the studies over the last decade, and especially over the last 3 years, have clearly demonstrated that people on a health conscious omnivorous diet display much better results than those on vegetarian or low-fat diets.

The body's fuel of choice while at rest or performing daily, routine activities....is fat. Glucose is only required A) By the brain (~135g) and B) during strenuous activity. And there is no way one can consume enough fat on a plant based diet with whole foods, unless you're consuming coconuts. Animal products are essential.

i love the meat hating vegetarians. we have been eating meat for hundreds and thousands of years, why stop now? there is a reason vegetarians have to eat special diets to get protein, because your body needs it. try living off of only vegetables and tell me how you feel, in one year you would look like a cancer patient. its funny to me how half of the world is starving so bad that some people would take your life over a cheeseburger, but those of us in western countries are so picky we throw food away and choose not to eat meats. i bet if you were starving half to death and haven't eaten in two weeks you would eat all the burger, steak, ham, chicken and fish i put in your face.

again you failed to read what I said we are not designed to eat meat of mammals. Maybe i should have made that clearer. Man is mainly a frugivour and eats insects for protein. Insects are high in protein and have no cholestrol they contain all the nutrients as mammal meat but without the side effects of eating mammal meat.

read this
www.worldchanging.com...

reply to post by loner007


okay, sounds nice. why don't you go eat some insects then? personally that grosses me out. a lot. i think i'll stick to burgers.

As for being Vegetarian and its effects on life span from my own point of view I cannot answer but let me give you a bit of background as to why it may lead to the prolonged lifespan.
I am the youngest of nine siblings and at the age of 6 I approached my mum with the intention of declaring I didn't wish to eat what she cooked for everyone else, I would in future cook my own meals as I had watched her work her fingers to the bone for the rest of the family. My diet from the age of 6 was trifle bowl full of cornflakes drenched in milk for breakfast, School ICK dinners which I hardly touched, Beans, Bread, Spaghetti, Tomato Soup, Apples and sometimes Faggots or Fish once a month. I grew to 6' by the age of 11 and continued to 6'3" at the age of 14 which was my lot. My brothers, sisters, Mum and dad(expletive) were all 5' 6" or below. They ate meat mostly every night as opposed to my once a month. At the age of 16 I became a full Vegetarian I was supremely fit also returned to college to work towards a physics degree as at that point my body and mind felt amazing. 7 years later I meet my first mista......oops I mean wife and began to eat as she did meat and all. I put on 8 stone in 8 years until after feeling totally Crap I had had enough I squeezed in gym time between work and home life and began to phase out meat again and reached 16 stone with a nice set of abs starting to feel my old self again but alas my mist....wife of the time left because she became insecure about my physique. So I hit abit of a glitch. Met someone better and forgot about my diet again until early this year. I am again full Vegetarian and I am losing weight and regaining my fitness it also clears the mind, don't ask me how but it does CLARITY.
So feeling great as I do other than unforseen circumstances its bound to improve your attitude to life and your longevity. So from both sides of the coin Vegetarian and Omnivore.....Superman as opposed to Homer Simpson.

Actually both diets are good depending the type metabolism the person have, still anybody that is vegetarian required to eat fats regardless even if they are from plant base because major organs in the body like the hart, brain and liver needs fats.

When the body is deprived of animal and plant base fats it will produce its own fat in the name of cholesterol to keep the hart and brain working but this cholesterol is higher in bad than good, when the body gets its cholesterol from animal fats it doesn't produce as much bad cholesterol, people needs to understand that the body will produce cholesterol regardless because is necessary for human survival and most of our cholesterol is made by our bodies anyway.

That is why statin drugs are so damaging to the hart, brain and liver.

I eat a high protein diet my fat is from animal fats, low carbs and sugars, I am under my ideal weight right now, I exercises 5 times a week, the animal fats while keeping my carbs and sugars low has helped me keep my weight and achieve a lean body.

So If anybody wants an example of what a high protein diet can do without the refine sugars and carbs that is me.

Plus I am a meat lover

Human beings were not mean to be vegetarians we are made to eat and digest flesh, our ancestors are the prof of that, before agriculture took over we were hunters and gatherers, meat was the main staple and when it was not available ate fruits and nuts, but fiber came later.

But as usual one diet plan do fit all