So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false?

If ever applicable, the proving of one extreme position (religions in general) as false doesn't necessarily mean proving the other extreme position (absolutely random, accidental Darwinian evolution and the belief that there's been NO involvement of ANY kind by unseen beings) as true, and hopefully the latter can be proven as false as the former. Religion needs to be redefined as ANYTHING, including the political, that is merely BELIEVED without very solid proof, or that is otherwise weak, flimsy, flawed, ineffectual enough.

"The only difference between a religion and a cult is the amount of real estate they own." (Frank Zappa)

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Dean Goldberry]

So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false?

To the question;
People would lose their excuses and gain their accountability.
You couldnt blame a devil or a demon or a god, for your choices,
and you couldnt request and wait or receive and thank the unseen force you talk or think to.
I think people are somewhat governed ,regulated holding back from doing the extremes found listed in the 10 commandments, as a "just in case, ya never know" way of protecting their speculated eternal selves,
and I think that were there to be an unchaining or loosing of a shared moral and ethical control that people would slide and in some cases rush to the lowest common denominator of personal values and basic code of life.
How many would jump to have themselves become rulers, and use whatever force needed to be worshiped as the ultimate?
The mess would just change from the positions and gods followed currently to the new gods created,
the only real difference being they'd be telling you what's expected from you as you viewed them on television or heard them on your radio.
Somehow that seems like deja vu or oddly familiar.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by 547000

 

Well that's very accepting of you... only Christianity states that the those who do not believe in Jesus will be damned for eternity does it not? Why would God lead others astray? Or is Christianity only broadly true, as in only the parts about love and the nice bits are true and all the stuff about lakes of fire is poppycock?

Only Islam states that salvation is only attainable by following the divine path revealed to Mohamed.
Failure to accept this belief results in eternal damnation.
Aren't the consequences for a believer and a non-believer the same in Islam as in Christianity?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


It wasn't an insult or attempt to belittle anyone I was merely stating my opinion on what would happen and the reasons behind that opinion.

If you or anyone else doesn't like what it contained then go cry to God, see if he fixes it for you

What happened when Newtons laws or Einsteins theories began to show cracks? Nothing science pushes on, and so will religion, they are not mutually exclusive and the human need that motivates their creation will always exsist. All mans knowledge, understanding, and ability to communicate come from his ability to create metaphoric associations. Those metaphoric representations are not ultimate truths but mere approximations. We tiny insignificant humans have a great deal to learn about life, the universe, and everything before we can make broad sweeping statements about what is or isn't true, or is or isn't possible.

here is a paradox that proves there is no we to disprove religion.

I am a Deist.

Because we believe in a "God" but don't believe in any once living person(real or myth) being a god how could anyone ever prove us wrong.
en.wikipedia.org...

We also don"t believe in any organized religion so there is no bible or any other writings that could be disproved.

Even Cristian Deists do not believe that Jesus was a deity.
Only that he was a moral and ethical philosopher.(teacher)
en.wikipedia.org...

Even if you could disprove Jesus or his writings these people would still be Deist because they still believe in a god.

Then you have Jewish, muslim, ECT Deist that do not believe in organized forms of there religions.

If you disproved Islam a muslim Deist would still be a Deist.
If you disproved Judaism a Jewish Deist would still be a Deist.

How could any one prove there is no God its imposable.

You can not prove Deism to be false religion because there is nothing to be disproved.

You might even be able to disprove ALL other religions to be false.
but they can then become Deist and believe in a god.

Now try to disprove any thing i have said above. i do not have anything I have to prove.

Its interesting how this thread evolved.
I give total props to the religious here whom have attempted to answer the actual question verses duck out and avoid it (posting scripture, or whatnot).

I myself am not religious obviously...I find structured religion to be the sewage of the soul. I am spiritual and that came from personal experiences showing there is more to life than meets the eye..perhaps it was my observation of those events mixed with some hard skepticism that made sure I didn't wind up in some cult or religion just because of some "ghost stories". If religion was wiped out tomorrow, I would cheer, then try and spread the message of personal spiritualism and connection to the universe not from a book but from your heart.

I feel sort of sad for the people in this thread whom either chose not to or simply couldn't answer the question..it proves to me that they have no real depth into their system of beliefs on a personal level..they equated the loss of their religion to the loss of their personal divinity or deity...as if religion and god were somehow the same...made me realize that their god is not what is described in their religion, but the religion itself was their deity...which is iconic worship at its core.

In the bible, it clearly states there are none who are right...nor rightous...not a single one. Now, the context may be fitting for the time of the floods, but I think it also has a timeless theme to it...making sure people realize all they know is probably not even close to correct...humble yourself and stay open. During the days of the flood, there were plenty of religious people, and many of them went up in smoke...jesus absolutely hated the church..so, the reoccuring theme, if you believe the bible, is that religion in general is crap...its a manmade invention that continously is sneered at by divine creatures, and enforced by powerhungry madmen in robes.

Also wanted to write one last note...many said that this wouldn't disprove or that...
it is about the religion, not disproving God...disproving God is impossible, in the same way disproving anything invisible from a different dimension is impossible (unicorns, tooth fairy, aliens, tony blair, etc...). its the structured religion..

the proof is not anything specific...it is tailored to what it would take for you personally...for me, a time machine would be great..seeing no resurrection would be pretty significant...seeing no noah's ark, seeing a slow progression from monkey to man, etc...this would completely eliminate judism, which in turn would make all forms of christianity, mormonism, and islam null and void.

For someone else, it might be completely different proof they would need...but either way, it would be bulletproof...perhaps a near death experience where you actually did "fly around" and was able to access the mind of God whom found the whole story and ritual completely laughable...etc.

focus on the religion, not the god (assuming they are not one in the same)

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by 547000
I don't know how accurate the OT was, but I know some of the NT is true. If the Crucifixion is said to be false, I would be very skeptical indeed, because my own experience tells me otherwise. If it were proven without doubt, I would probably just believe in God as a universal energy. If it was proven there is no God or afterlife I would just be depressed and nihilistic for my remaining time here.

What in the NT is true? You seem to not to know what the so called OT and the so called NT are.
www.messiahtruth.com...

As an additional resource related to this aside, I'd recommend reading the Disputation at Barcelona.

The truth has been coming out about every closely guarded belief for some time now. The stories that create the foundations of most religious belief can be proven to be false and still the truth of the teachings will remain. Faith does not need proof or evidence, the belief which causes faith has given people enough to succeed in achieving the lives they desire. That is great for them. There are people though who in their desperate search for truth seek the source of it and lose faith in external practices and discover internal faith. This internal faith is the evolution of the comprehension of what these ancient teachings teach and goes to show you what an open mind can perceive once it tries to legitamize instead of antagonize a 'faith'. Yes the external worshippers etc. are not quite reaching nirvana but they are happy and in the end that is what counts. However you get there just get there, sometimes I believe it is better to close your eyes than be mislead. The best of teachingz cannot be taken away from but rather added on to. I believe in nothing but there is a spark for wonder still in me so I feel it will find me when I am ready to take that proverbial leap. But if religion is proven to be false then the world will benefit by seeking the truth in the words and not idol worship, zealotry and other forms of ignorance brought on by fear of the unknown in an ever changing world. The Truth shall set you free- is a quote that I believe would be the end of a global awakening scale of exposure to the deception called dogmatic principles. But faith must remain and will remain for those who seek to LIVE while there is still time left to enjoy a life of structure and imposed order without taking the responsibility of carving out your own proverbial 10 commandments. LOL Good question btw

reply to post by SaturnFX


I've had a near death experience. Interestingly enough it strengthened my faith in 'there is something else to life and understanding". Ive done things wih my mind that showed me there is a power which if it can be controlled can lead to whatever the heart desires. Ive seen many predictions come true in my time on this earth from many different faiths to show me there is some truth to them; if not all. Ive read of many odd phenomena that although of unexplained origin have undoubtedly perplexed the greatest scientific minds of hypothesis and theory. There is more to our reality than can be explained at this time and if we are to become Gods one day and -know the ledge- students that we are we must remain open minded enough to see the lesson presented to us in the moment. We are being communicated with by something greater than us and one must only "feel" something other than himself to perceive it. No name is required but you will be lead if you only reach out to find your truth. That is the only answer that ever lead anyone anywhere. Other than that is a path that leads to a life and death of an unfulfilled soul/mind.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I'm an atheist so nothing would happen to me, however i believe that your entire post is a logical fallacy. No matter what evidence is presented there will always be those who have faith. Consider Evolution, it is beyond a doubt that Evolution occurs, the evidence is overwhelming and yet we still see people saying "god gone and dunnit".

Theres no way you will stop some people believing in the magic man, all that can be hoped for is that these people don't let their religion get in the way of human development.

The All

When you need
I'm here for you
When you act
Prepared for you
When you take
Provide to you
When you breathe
Exhale to you

Your smallest want
Your least desire
I’m at your wrist
To quench the fire
Your faintest twitch
Your slightest bow
I reach to you
As you allow

The softest breeze
The warmest touch
A whisper
of the sweetest musk
A shadow
in the heat of day
I stand right here
a breath away
Your harbor
in the smallest storm
Protection
from the least of harm

In giving
to your taking in
I am
the very life you live
Your priceless
and most cherished need
I feed upon
your endless greed

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I'm an atheist so nothing would happen to me, however i believe that your entire post is a logical fallacy. No matter what evidence is presented there will always be those who have faith. Consider Evolution, it is beyond a doubt that Evolution occurs, the evidence is overwhelming and yet we still see people saying "god gone and dunnit".

Theres no way you will stop some people believing in the magic man, all that can be hoped for is that these people don't let their religion get in the way of human development.

Conversely, no matter what evidence is presented for the unseen there will always be those who have doubt. Existence by its very nature is belief in things both seen and unseen.

To answer as honestly as possible... I personally 'feel' like I was born a sociopath. I only did what I wanted to (selfish) even to the extent of hurting others and myself. Masochism was common place in my young life, lying, cheating, stealing. I was raised by parents with strong moral/religious values, but did not wish to be living as a 'drone' so to quote Crowley" do what thou wilt" Being of the 'Y' generation, inundated with murder, sex, greed, divorce just from television I believed there was no point to life other than Living. I rationalized such statements as ' do unto others..' With the fact that I was cutting myself. I hated myself. This existence was it; hence ideas such as 'morality' fell short because only the strong survived and anyone who's watched a couple action movies knows
1) the good guy doesn't always win
2)things like love and compassion are weaknesses
To sum up and answer the post if I personally knew there was no God, no 'eternal' reward/consequences for my actions- I was a monkeys cousin- I know I would have killed someone by now. Sounds harsh but in my search for a thrill... Inevitably I would have been there. I used to love the manson saga, jack the ripper, zodiac. For me it would have been the next thrill. So life would be profoundly different for me... And probably for others as well. FYI Thanks to the Holy Spirit the great teacher and My Lord Yeshua a transformation of heart has occurred... Can't even watch 'saw' without getting sick now.

Religion is the only thing that is keeping a lot of people from committing Sins. So, the consequences is going to be the opposite if it doesn't exist.....

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Ufokrazy]

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Ufokrazy]

Originally posted by slane69
Pascal's wager is a great answer to your question and I agree with him

"Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing."

Let's try Pascal's wager on Scientology.

Of course if one is already a true believer in Scientology, Pascal's wager helps to reinforce one's faith in that religion, at the same time dismissing any wrong doing of the religion to be "nothing" and are of no consequence to anyone, should it ever be proven to be false.

Actions that maybe seen as harmless or "nothing" to followers of many of these religions and belief systems may have instead cause and created tremendous irreversible damage and suffering onto countless others not like them.

Pascal's wager isn't really a great answer to many faiths, it's also a matter of perspective.

This is probably why many people consider certain religions to be the cause of some of the greatest problem we face as a species.

The lack of empathy and responsibility.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So, What happens to you if/when religion is proven false?

How would your life be impacted? Would you still go to your local church? Would you still pray? Would you find more value in this life (its all you got), or less

It's common for modern people to believe God doesn't exist. It's difficult for many to understand that the multitudes have already been given their proof of God's existence. It is their own personal proof that could never satisfy the scrutiny of a nonbeliever but God has given them something that cannot be taken from them.

I say I had a NDE where I stood before God so I know he exists.

Nonbeliever says it was just a hallucination caused by the mind.

My proof could never be considered proof to a nonbeliever but it's proof to me. I wish I could give others what I experienced, words fail to express just how deeply moving the truth is when it shines through your immortal soul.

I know this thread is just a thought exercise but it seemed to be based on your belief that nobody has proof of God's existence.

Just wanted to share my initial thoughts.

Peace....fun thread/

The problem is there will ALWAYS be room for religion.

ANYTHING can be a religious belief ANYTHING that you can imagine in your thoughts can be turned into a religion. I will instantly make up a NEW religion right here on the spot.

Ketchup is a poisoning of the Tomato! Anyone who puts ketchup on a Hotdog could cause a tear in the fabric of space that destroys everyone in the Universe. DO NOT USE KETCHUP ON HOTDOGS WE CANNOT TAKE THE RISK!

The Tomato just communicated mentally with me and told me all of this and I wrote it down. These are the teaching of Ketchupamungus. I will teach it to my children and I have the right to teach this to my children.

There is no limit to what is considered a religion. You have no way of proving that a Tomato planet did not just telepathically communicate with me. You have no way of proving that putting ketchup on a hotdog could not possibly cause the Universe to be destroyed.

Religion, the difference between institutionalization and tax exempt status.

Religion is divine Truth wrapped in cultural understanding. The religion is the language which speaks the Truth. There is but one Truth, one God, revealed in many ways.

The Atheist understands God through his divinely inspired writings of Science. It understands God by believing God does not exist. Despite their efforts to disprove God exists, all they do is confirm Just how incredible God is in his creation. They continue to disbelieve his existence, which pushes us onward to understanding his magnificence.

The Christian understands God through his divinely inspired writings. They preach the words of Jesus, and do their best to understand them and live by them. Some do Gods will by demonstrating how difficult it can be to live by his word, to love all, just as some Atheists do. Both demonstrate the inherent weaknesses in Man, and Science, and Religion. All part of Gods will, for they both push us onward to understanding.

The Mohammedan, understands God through his divinely inspired writings. They live the Law of Allah, and do their best to understand it within the context of their own culture. It too demonstrates the inherent weaknesses of Man, and his ability to comprehend something so great as God.

God is all. It is the physical that we can see, hear, feel, smell and touch. It is the spiritual, those things we can only perceive intuitively. We knew the Atom existed before we could see it. We knew the electron existed before we could see it. We know quantum particles and we can only express their existence through the language of mathematics. So to does God exist. He is infinitesimally smaller than we can ever perceive physically, and Infinitely larger. He needs not our belief to exist, nor does he need our belief. Both are necessary for us to progress, yet both cannot exist inside one mind!

What matters is not whether God exists, so much as we understand his divine Law. Treat others as you wish to be treated.

This is the only way that we can all get along, regardless of our understanding of God. Without it, we will continue to seek to destroy each other, thus proving "The Law".

The Law is understood to be the basis of all religions (languages), be it Science, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or (insert label here). Its what we all want inside.

With Love,

Your Brother