i was almost arrested for.........apples.

People keep talking about the law. However, nothing said he couldn't pick the fruit. The cop just got offended when he didn't roll over like every day people. Afterward he felt like he had to assert authority or whatever. Personally I'd be back for more fruit and if I saw animals grazing on the fruit I would patiently wait my turn for the fruit and take pictures of the grazing animals, just saying...there's enough for everyone not just animals and not just humans come on people.

different district, same national forest.
pinon nuts.
no permit unless commercial.


Pinon seeds lure pickers to area forests

By Tom Purdom
Staff Writer

ZUNI MOUNTAINS — Pinon nuts have dropped and pinon pickers are out in force picking up the tasty little hard-shelled food.

The Mount Taylor Ranger District of the Cibola National Forest, along with Bureau of Land Management lands, private lands and El Morro and El Malpais National Monument lands have pinon pine trees.

Mount Taylor Ranger District Timber Sales Specialist Don Olson said the pinon pine cones generally opened last week because of favorable weather conditions, which, in turn, kicked off the pinon nut gathering season.

Olson said pinon seeds are in a lot of areas in the Mount Taylor Ranger District, but pinon pine trees are not over the entire district.

Pinon pickers seem to be a family event enjoyed by Native American families, and, pinon gathering is also a tradition of the Hispanic people, Olson said.

There are no special permits needed to gather the nuts, however, Olson said pinon gathering on national forest lands is limited to non-commercial ventures. The same rule stands for Bureau of Land Management property. On National Monument lands Field Law Enforcement Ranger Tony Troxel said pinon gathering is permitted, but with limits. As with other federal lands, commercial pinon gathering ventures are not allowed. However, the personal limit is generous. "You can only pick pinon nuts for yourself, and you are allowed 10 pounds of pinon seeds per day, per person," Troxel said, adding that persons picking wild berries are allowed one-quarter of a pound of berries per day, per person.

The pinenut gathering season begins in late summer and ends in the fall. Olson said the pinon nut gathering season usually ends with the first snowfall.

The pinenut meat is yellow-orange in color and are translucent and soft.

"I was told by one pinenut collector that our pinon nuts, as far as pinon nuts go, are the best in the world," Olson said.

As a word of caution, the pinon gathering season usually coincides with big game hunting seasons in New Mexico. The pinon pine trees are in the same neck of woods hunters pursue big game. Although it is not required, for safety-sake, pinon nut gatherers should wear highly visible clothes, such as a fluorescent orange vest and hat while in the hunting woods.

What part don't you believe? I live in the Idaho Rockies I am living it, they brought Canadian wolves here and I have seen them and have neighbors whose kids have been threatened and when adults tried to run them off they were not intimidated the adults were scared. Most people now will not leave thier house unarmed for a minute because of them. There is no question they have devastated the herds this is why they finally introduced a hunting season on them their have been news paper articles of many uneaten carcasses and ranchers have seen it first hand with thier livestock. I have seen uneaten carcasses personally.

i feel this poor guy getting harassed for picking a few pounds of fruit is ridiculous. a warning would have been enough why had cuff the guy did he look threatening was he a danger to them .was he brandishing weaponry. no well then they had no need for cuffs. cuffs were just to humiliate him .
would he get prosecuted for this in court no any judge who is smart would kick it right out

reply to post by hawkiye


first off, i don't, in my experience, believe wolves to be that aggressive towards humans unless there are mitigating circumstances, like a really dry year, bad winter kill, reintroduction to close to humans etc....
i'm not doubting what you say for your area, just saying that it's normal is what i have a problem with.
animals can be very territorial, like cougars, sure you hear of an attack on a jogger etc.....but they don't tell you the jogger ran in between a cat and it's cub, with headphones on, and paying no attention.
same with bears, sure they attack, but there's usually a reason. i blame the stupid human for not paying attention, or having food in thier tent etc...
not the bear.

reply to post by proteus33


no firearms, knife on my belt, and a walking stick.

Mod Note:

Replaced large quote with "Reply to" tag.

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 2010/8/24 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by ShadowAngel85


It is PUBLIC property. Didn't your mama teach you how to read? If it's PUBLIC, that generally means IT BELONGS TO ALL. I can't believe the people who come here whining about something only to find out that they didn't bother reading the original post.

You DO have the right to do whatever you want to do. As long as you do not physically hurt a person. That's the only rule you need to obey. The problem is that over half the population is retarded. They want more! Take what you need from the land and only what you need. If you did that you wouldn't be causing a problem now would you? You are the kind of person that if you started spouting that # in my face I would walk away from you and totally ignore any word that you spoke from now on. I was about to break tyhe only rule you have. I caught myself. See that's called common sense. No matter what you think it's all yours to take as you wish.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. You need to pack everything you use, and pack out anything you did not consume....including your own latrine unless one is provided by the park service.
This includes but is not limited to : wood for campfires, water, anything to eat, specimens, souvenirs, animals for pets, anything hunted for food, pelt or prize. And you are supposed to pack out your toilet, your waste water, your bodily waste, your trash, all of your equiptment, including fishing lines (that one really pisses me off, wads of tangled fishing line is a hazard to those who are fishing legally). For a campfire, you should not move stones to make a ring, nor logs to burn or sit on. If you are not in a designated firepit area. You should make sure to return the area you used is completely out and covered with dirt and the leaf litter you removed to make the fire.
Unless you are permitted or licensed to do otherwise, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN.
If you don't like the rules in an area, find somewhere else to camp.

reply to post by blood0fheroes


Since when is being a good steward taking and doing what you want as long as it pleases you and doesn't leave a mess? You need to rethink your term a bit. Being a good steward means able to give back something left in your care in the SAME OR BETTER conditions. Removing apples from the area does not leave the conditions either the same or better.

Why pity me for caring enough to follow the rules and knowing both what the rules are and why they are necessary?
Pity the people who champion theft from public lands as a statement of their righteous freedom.
Living, taking, doing, leaving anything and anywhere you wish is not a step toward freedom, it's a step toward anarchy.

If there are no signs posted... you may have rights to a lawsuit.. go pick some apples again soon and get a lawyer. Good luck you just were enjoying nature...not destroying property. OMG.. what is this world coming to?

Okay folks, with a just a little research, here is a link that describes the preferred human interaction within US Forestry and National Park areas. This site was found off the USDA Foresty Service site, searching for recreational uses within their site. The link is an officially sponsered and approved. It is also as close to updated as I have seen in any US.gov site.

"Leave No Trace":
Leave No Trace program

Also direct from the USDA site, another program to educate. This one is called Tread Lightly:

www.treadlightly.org...

For the posters who are arguing that a man-made orchard and aqueduct shoule be removed or exempt from the same restriction as the wilderness areas, they are officially considered to be historical and archelogical sites. The should be left as they are, both for the heritage, and for a window into how long it takes nature to naturally remove man's impact. That's important information to know.

When the SHTF one day from some serious solar shenanigans or some other crazy natural disaster, I seriuosly hope all of the people that didn't want a person to eat some fruit or even take any home to eat later are dead. Yes, dead. That leaves more for the rest of us who don't see anything wrong with eating what was provided.

I don't give a damn if you don't like it but what he did wasn't wrong. There was nothing morally wrong with what he did. Period. There should be no law that sates when and where and what I ingest into my body.

As one poster said, there are not enough people in this country with the gumption, knowledge, or anything of that nature to make a mad rush to the national parks, public lands to eat up all of the flora and fauna. And if they do that in itself will weed out the retards who don't take the time to figure out what they can and can't eat from the wild.

The prepared will be those that do not follow rules but disregard the stupidty of laws and law makers.

[edit on 8/24/2010 by pwrthtbe]

Originally posted by General.Lee
reply to post by ShadowAngel85

 

It is PUBLIC property. Didn't your mama teach you how to read? If it's PUBLIC, that generally means IT BELONGS TO ALL. I can't believe the people who come here whining about something only to find out that they didn't bother reading the original post.

Sorry- that is an out-dated definition. "Public", now means GOVERNMENT, and YOU, had better stay the frack off! Or else!!

OP, continue, to pick and use that fruit!! I would- and WOE, be unto those who would harrass me, for my wrath is terrible!! BWAHAHAHA!!

The Officers were correct, but they should have handled it better. Of course we don't really know what your attitude was towards them.

Forest Service land is very regulated. However, BLM and State Lands are generally another story. You can openly gather on much of that land in the Western US.

To those from the East where the only Public's lands there are had to be purchased from private land holders, it is different in the West. Most land is uninhabited and pristine. In fact wherever the radical groups intervene is where the problems occur. You might recall when even the Sierra Club had to apologize because their lawsuits and policies lead to devastating fires because they would not allow the Forest Service to do its job.

To give everyone an example where overprotection causes great harm, I'll relate one incident in Idaho.

We had had three mild winters in a row and they were predicting a severe winter coming up. During those mild winters the Mule Deer population had skyrocketed to unsustainable levels. Knowing this, the Fish and Game increased the number of Mule Deer that could be taken and even allowed for Does to be taken. The Sierra Club sued and stopped it through the Ninth District Court as they always do.

Winter came and they were right. It was a brutal winter with lots of snow. The argument they used in court, based on centuries of evidence, is that if you thin the herd, most will survive and be healthy. If you do not thin the herd, you end up with a high winter kill and the remaining animals are unhealthy from near starvation.

The end result. 90% winter kill and sickly herds. It took years for them to rebound as a result of the Sierra Clubs incompetence. The Fish and Games argument was spot on. Had they not interfered, the next spring would have seen a large healthy herd. The Sierra Club did not apologize that time though.

And this is the part I don't understand why some authority figures act they way they do. They took a simple situation and escalated into something entirely different leaving an impression of distrust and disrespect for a questionable reason. I know there's a lot of cop issues on ATS but I'm sure at least some can agree that there's truth to attitude determining the outcome of a situation. I especially know this first hand from a close, long time friend who's a cop. Rubbertramp, I know it's difficult to truly determine how you replied to them but I interpreted it as sincere and not snide.





Having said that, I could see myself having said and acted the same way as you did. If I were you I'd consider filing a formal complaint regarding the situation and I see you're going to their office which is good.





It's sounding more and more like it might be a stereotyped, discrimination issue, especially considering the following information.

Here's some information I found that's of interest:


Cibola National Forest

Cibola National Forest FAQs

Flora and Fauna
All plants and animals are protected in national and state parks and national wildlife refuges. On all other public lands state wildlife laws apply to the taking of wildlife. On Forest Service and BLM lands permits may be obtained for cutting firewood or collecting plants for personal use.

With the exception of lands administered by the National Park Service, invertebrate fossils, rocks, plants, fruits and berries may be collected for personal use on most public lands. For specific rules, consult the appropriate agency.

Curious how your trip went today.







Bringing Legalese into the conversation is certainly worthy. Law enforcement and lawyers literally spend their entire careers learning new laws. Seriously, how is the general public supposed to be knowledgable all of them?







I'm familiar with the area and used to work in, but not for, the DWGNRA. I haven't had any negative experiences personally with the Park Rangers although I heard many stories through the years to confim your statement.

Originally posted by rubbertramp

i think it a good idea to arm myself with proof that i'm not breaking the law. if it was up to me i'd pick packloads to pass out to the poor and homeless.

Then you really dont understand asktheanimals point. Humans already have taken the best of all habitats almost everywhere. Thats one of the reasons we set aside land for parks and wildlife, so that the animals can have some scraps of land to live on and make a living from. And here you are arguing that you should be able to take as much of their resources as you want.

Especially in New Mexico, where we have had a long drought period that has made it really hard on the wildlife.

Its just all about you and other humans, isnt it? Except for the natural fact that you and all human beings alive are 100% dependent upon other animals and plants for your very life. Even the ones you dont realize you need are part of a chain that supports the ones you do need and you yourself.

Stop being so ego-hurt that you cant learn from this. You got schooled on how to treat the resources. Like asktheanimals said, if everyone did what you did, it would be a disaster for the animals and the environment.

And to those who were moaning "what about the humans" protecting the animals and the environment IS for the humans, you fools.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

To give everyone an example where overprotection causes great harm, I'll relate one incident in Idaho.

I dont disagree that the way things are now we need hunters to manage herds of grazers. But lets not forget that LACK of protection is what put us in this position in the first place, not overprotection.

We eliminated too many of the apex predators. And most attempts to restore them fail due to public opinion, lack of knowledge on how to do it, and resistance from ranchers etc.

So yeah, overprotection at one level when the whole things has already been disrupted is bad, but dont forget our lack of protection for the predators is what put us in that position in the first place.

reply to post by rubbertramp


If "The Power's To Be" - TPTB do NOT receive any profit from it then it's NOT your's. It sucks!

That was the convesation I was having with an volunteer today whilst working away doing Conservation work.

what were 3 cops doing standing around anyway, send them to the border to deal with the more important things first.