Retired General Slams NY 'Mosque' Critics

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by SIRTMG
He's not grasping at straws. You made the comment. He proved you wrong.

I stated

Still, how many suicide bombers has Islam produced in the last 10 years?

How many suicide bombers has Christianity produced in the last decade?

As I stated before, a single swallow a summer doesn't make.

Don't get me wrong. Both acts are terrible and should be condemned as religious bigotry.

In no way however does the murder of a doctor, by a single Christian, excuse the Muslim murder of 3,000 people by a gang of Jihadists.

What is your underlying agenda when you try to minimise the murder of 3,000 people by a group of organised Muslim Jihadists?


[edit on 21-8-2010 by ollncasino]

[edit on 21-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Where am I defending the one's involved with the 9/11 terrorist attacks? I'm sticking up for peaceful Muslims that have the American right to build their Mosque and practice their religion wherever the hell they want. Do you realize that you're holding innocent Muslims accountable for the disgusting act of extremist terrorists? Are you able to differentiate between the two?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by SIRTMG
The genocide of 300,000 Muslims by Christian Serbs in Bosnia was 18 years ago. I hate to grasp at straws, but thought I'd include that.

It was US and European warplanes that bombed the Serbs to stop that genocide.

Should Bosnian Muslims not be thanking the USA?

Does that somehow change the fact that Christians were responsible?

Originally posted by SIRTMG
Does that somehow change the fact that Christians were responsible?

Is the true figure of deaths 300,000 as claimed by SIRTMG , 200,000 as later claimed by another poster or at 102,622 for both Muslim and Christian victims as calculated in 2005 by the Demographic Unit of the Office of the Prosecutor of the ICTY?

www.springerlink.com...

I am puzzled at the SIRTMG agenda however. Why is the USA getting the blame for Serbs killing Muslim Bosnians?

In light of the USA stopping Serbs killing Muslims, I really do have to wonder why the USA is getting the blame.

Can the USA do nothing right in the eyes' of Muslims?

Originally posted by SIRTMG
Do you realize that you're holding innocent Muslims accountable for the disgusting act of extremist terrorists? Are you able to differentiate between the two?

Yes I can. In fact, you only need to read my posts to understand that.

You on the other hand clearly feel that the USA shares some of the guilt for Serbs killing Muslims irrespective of the fact that US warplanes stopped the slaughter.

Go figure. The USA can do no right apparently.

It is also interesting that you accuse me of being anti-Muslim when you are yourself displaying a level of bias against Christians and the USA that is breath taking.

I hope you are not a typical example of a moderate Muslim.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by SIRTMG
Do you realize that you're holding innocent Muslims accountable for the disgusting act of extremist terrorists? Are you able to differentiate between the two?

Yes I can. In fact, you only need to read my posts to understand that.

You on the other hand clearly feel that the USA shares some of the guilt for Serbs killing Muslims irrespective of the fact that US warplanes stopped the slaughter.

Go figure. The USA can do no right apparently.

It is also interesting that you accuse me of being anti-Muslim when you are yourself displaying a level of bias against Christians and the USA that is breath taking.

I hope you are not a typical example of a moderate Muslim.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. I didn't once mention the USA in the post that you're referring to. I did, however, refer to statistics in opposition that Christianity is now a peaceful religion and that all the travesties committed are atleast hundreds of years old.

Everyone else is expected to differentiate between extreme Muslims and normal Muslims (which is fair enough) but you are allowed to tar all Christians with the same brush?.

Originally posted by SIRTMG
Does that somehow change the fact that Christians were responsible?

Your statistics were 300,000 Muslims dead, which went down to 200,000 which has now gone down to 102,622 Muslims and Christian dead.

What is your agenda exactly?

One need only look to the book of Revelations to understand that Christianity is anything but a peaceful religion, as a supposed lamb like prophet descends with an angry horde of vengeance seeking angels to lay waste to the entire planet and set up a thousand year nirvana like reign of a Christian world.

In fact it’s rather telling that so many Christians are worried about Islam as Christianity offers them that promise that their Lord and Savior will sort it all out in the end.

It can only mean they have no faith in their own prophecies and lord, or they are so bent on domination of the entire earth they can not wait peacefully for that day.

Either way Christian Scripture is all about an eventual 1,000 year reign of a one world Christian Government brought about through the greatest violence and destruction ever imaginable.

It is a mere matter of deflection that they manage to claim only Islam is doing this. Jewish scriptures, Christian scriptures and Muslim Scriptures all see themselves coming out on top in similar ways. The only differences is being the level of personal denial members of the laity are in these religions in regards to this very violent path to their own domination and complete hegemony.

Rome offers you war or peace; it matters not which to Rome you decide.

The path to the peaceful existence all seek through a one world government, which is what these scriptures are all about, getting the people to set up a one world government by eliminating all divisions, through their own divisions can in fact be done peacefully or violently dependent upon how one wants to arrive there, or if, one wants to arrive at all.

Understand you do personally have the option of choosing war or peace, and those that live by the sword shall die by it too.

You can blame it all on the other guy as you lie upon your own ruin but do know you brought it upon yourselves as you witness those final terrible painful moments and the realization of the mistake you have made.

Rome offers you war or peace; it matters not which to Rome you decide.

Those protesting their innocence in this matter, not only protest too much, but their protests shall come to no avail.

They shall only lead them to ruin.

O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth,
That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!(275)
Thou art the ruins of the noblest man
That ever lived in the tide of times.
Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!
Over thy wounds now do I prophesy
Which like dumb mouths do ope their ruby lips(280)
To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue,
A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
Blood and destruction shall be so in use,(285)
And dreadful objects so familiar,
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds,
And Caesar's spirit ranging for revenge,(290)
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry “Havoc!” and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.(295)

William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

Thus it shall come to pass, and it will not be your brother or sister to blame but you.

Rome offers you war or peast, I suggest all reflect on their positions lest you all choose poorly.

Rest assured it matters not to Rome, it only will matter to you!




[edit on 21/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ollncasino
Everyone else is expected to differentiate between extreme Muslims and normal Muslims (which is fair enough) but you are allowed to tar all Christians with the same brush?.

Originally posted by SIRTMG
Does that somehow change the fact that Christians were responsible?

Your statistics were 300,000 Muslims dead, which went down to 200,000 which has now gone down to 102,622 Muslims and Christian dead.

What is your agenda exactly?

I wasn't the one to bring up how Islam is the root of all of religious violence in today's world. I took the statement and presented its falsity.

The statisitic is a rounded 300,000, but the exact loss of life is massive and can only be estimated.

Why do you keep assuming that I have an agenda? I'm trying to persuade you guys from being so god damn ignorant and close-minded. Btw, before you accuse me of being Muslim and having an agenda again, I'm atheist. If you guys can make such outlandish claims about religion, expect to see some facts that (assumingly) discredit yours as well.

Originally posted by SIRTMG
Why do you keep assuming that I have an agenda?

Because of the fact that you are so quick to defend Islam and attack Christianity?

I have no interest in defending Christianity. The only reason why the whole Christianity vs. Islam issue arose was because a Muslim apologists decided to play the "yours too game" to try to deflect attention away from Islamic violence.

You have been playing the same game yourself.

I do admit that your example of Serbs killing Bosnian Muslims was better than the previous example of a single Christian killing an abortion doctor.

On the other hand, you did exaggerate the over all figures by a factor of 3 while leaving out the fact that Bosnian Muslims were also massacring Serb Christians.

You also left out the fact that the 'Christian' USA and Western European bombed Serbia into stopping the massacres.

Then you tarred all Christians with the same brush while accusing me of tarring all Muslims with the same Brush.

Fascinating.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by SIRTMG
Why do you keep assuming that I have an agenda?

Because of the fact that you are so quick to defend Islam and attack Christianity?

I have no interest in defending Christianity. The only reason why the whole Christianity vs. Islam issue arose was because a Muslim apologists decided to play the "yours too game" to try to deflect attention away from Islamic violence.

You have been playing the same game yourself.

I do admit that your example of Serbs killing Bosnian Muslims was better than the previous example of a single Christian killing an abortion doctor.

On the other hand, you did exaggerate the over all figures by a factor of 3 while leaving out the fact that Bosnian Muslims were also massacring Serb Christians.

You also left out the fact that the 'Christian' USA and Western European bombed Serbia into stopping the massacres.

Then you tarred all Christians with the same brush while accusing me of tarring all Muslims with the same Brush.

Fascinating.

I've already explained myself, but you continue this paraphrasing tyrade. I'll tell you what's fasinating, the fact that you didn't say a damn thing the moment the whole "Islam is the root of all today's religious violence" statement came up. That's what's fascinating. If you had, you probably wouldn't be attacking me with the anti-christian bull#, as you'd see quite clearly that I was proving the falsity of an ignorant users comment.

[edit on 21-8-2010 by SIRTMG]

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by jlmB70

Originally posted by RizeorDie
trust me he knows what hes talking about more than most people. The man has been to a an arab, muslim country and he had met the people. he talked to them and worked with them. he knows

-----
Why should I trust you?

He's been to an "Arab, Muslim country".....and that means what? Does the general have a political leaning or an axe to grind? You don't provide any details other than "trust me".....nah, I think I'll trust my own judgement.

That means he's had first hand experience dealing with muslims and their thoughts feelings and ideas, I would certainly trust him over Fox News and other pundits.

What do you think it means?

[edit on 20-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

-----
And Hitler had first-hand experience dealing with Jews, so your statement is totally devoid of any meaning. Interesting also that you only mentioned Fox News by name....a tell obviously. I only trust myself others should consider doing the same.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hello Proto.

I wanted to weigh in the other day but you were barking at the opposition and I was afraid that I was going to get my head chewed off for being off topic. I wanted to tell you to chill, take a step back, and take a deep breath.

I would like to share my views on your last post, and how it relates to the General and his concerns about the military, the winning of hearts and minds in the Middle East, and the direction of the intellectual evolution that you were hoping for in the discussion.

The book of Revelation is one the most difficult pieces of writing to understand. It has continued to baffle biblical scholars for almost two millennia. Every time you think that you understand it, it throws you a curve. Every time that I read it, I come away from it with something new.

This John fellow was either one of the worlds most brilliant writers, or else he just happened to be fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to be used as an instrument in the hands of God. Don't worry, I am not trying to proselytize. I am well aware of your views on God and religion.

The lamb like prophet that descends with an angry horde of vengeance seeking angels, as you described it, in order to lay waste to the entire planet, does so only after Jerusalem is completely surrounded by an army of 200,000,000. He is clearly not the instigator.

He offers you war or peace. It matters not which to Him you decide.

The choice is left for the individual to decide, as is the case for the winning of hearts and minds. The General had offered war or peace. He would have liked to have won over their hearts, but it really didn't matter to him what they decided. The primary objective still would have remained the same.

And who will the ones most likely be who will eventually surround Jerusalem? Will it be Christians? Will it be Muslims? Or perhaps maybe Jews will surround themselves?.......the numbers just don't add up.

It is the One World Government that will spawn this madness, yet God has indeed put it into their hearts to accept it. And they will. And it will happen.

So why do people fight against the inevitable?........perhaps it is because that day will be so violent and bloody and they know that they are still going to have to wake up on this planet tomorrow morning.

Yet there are those who will aspire to see all these thing come to pass, to speed up the day when "the mystery of God will be accomplished."

But it is nothing to be wished for my friend, because no one who will be alive in those days is going to have a very pleasant afternoon.

He offers you war or peace. It does not matter to Him which you choose.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Q: Is it illegal to build here?
A: No

Q: Are AMERICANS *really* so whimp-arsed that they can't stand the idea of religious FREEDOM?
A: No

Q: Did the RELIGION OF ISLAM attack the towers on 9-11?
A: No, extremists of Islam did it.

Q: Have extremist CHRISTIANS ever killed in the name of God?
A: Yes; like that guy who MURDERED abortion doctors, like those people who protested clinics

Just because a small number of FANATICS (and ALL religions have them) behaved badly on 9-11 doesn't mean that an entire religion should be held responsible. After all, CHRISTIANS have freaked out and killed before, but that doesn't mean that ALL CHRISTIANS are evil.

Just some thoughts.

Originally posted by GhostLancer
Q: Did the RELIGION OF ISLAM attack the towers on 9-11?
A: No, extremists of Islam did it.

There have been allegations that the mosque is being financed by the extreme Wahabi sect of Islam which does produce significant numbers of suicide Jihadists.

Originally posted by GhostLancer
Q: Have extremist CHRISTIANS ever killed in the name of God?
A: Yes; like that guy who MURDERED abortion doctors, like those people who protested clinics

And your point is?

In what sense does a Christian killing an abortion doctor or Christian Serbs killing Muslim Serbs (and Muslim Bosnians Killing Christians) in any way excuse Islamic extremists' Jihad against the West?

Originally posted by SIRTMG
I've already explained myself, but you continue this paraphrasing tyrade.

I'll tell you what's fasinating, the fact that you didn't say a damn thing the moment the whole "Islam is the root of all today's religious violence" statement came up.

That's what's fascinating.

At no point did I state "Islam is the root of all today's religious violence" although lets call a spade a spade, it is the root of the lion's share of it.

So far, Day 11 of Ramadan, the religion of peace has carried out 63 terror attacks and has killed 265 people.

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Muslim extremists in 2010 are also involved in violent Jihad in the following countries:

Pakistan:
Afghanistan;
Iraq;
Thailand;
China;
Yemen;
Algeria;
India;
Palestine;
Somalia;
Russia;
Egypt;
Ingushetia;
Philippines;
Dagestan;
Jordan;
Mali;
Nigeria;
Uganda;
USA;
Kosovo;
Liberia
Chechnya;
Saudi Arabia;
Germany;
France;
Israel;
Bangladesh;
Lebanon;
Ethiopia;
DRC (Congo);
Ukraine.

But apart from terrorist activity by Jihadists in the countries listed above, the religion of peace has been pretty much peaceful.

So it is fair to say that while Islam isn't the root of all religious violence today, it is the root of an awful lot of it.

Sorry for all the edits. Its adding in countries I missed of the list.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by ollncasino]

[edit on 22-8-2010 by ollncasino]

[edit on 22-8-2010 by ollncasino]

[edit on 22-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Hey Proto I think few news source are reporting exactly what you are saying. This news was reported on 21 Aug a day after you made the thread...

So virulent is the Islamophobic hysteria of the neocon and Fox News right — abetted by the useful idiocy of the Anti-Defamation League, Harry Reid and other cowed Democrats — that it has also rendered Gen. David Petraeus’s last-ditch counterinsurgency strategy for fighting the war inoperative. How do you win Muslim hearts and minds in Kandahar when you are calling Muslims every filthy name in the book in New York?

How Fox Betrayed Petraeus

reply to post by samsamm9


Thanks our on hypocrite government for that, after all it was the way to used propaganda and 9/11 in order to have Americans majority Christians into supporting a war against "Islam" extremist in two Islamic countries, yes sadly the "Innocent Islamic got caught with the extremist in the pursue of private agendas.

Now we all should be tolerance. . .

American citizens are been manipulated in a way that is just so obscene and still many doesn't get it yet. . .

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The cause of terrorism is not Islam.

The cause of religious terrorism is religion.
Without religion you will not have religious terrorism.
In this case it is Islam.
Eliminate the religion,eliminate the terrorism.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by RRokkyy]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Tony Cartalucci's article The "Ground Zero Mosque:" Why you should really be angry provides an in-depth report on the funding sources for the mosque that will be known officially as Cordoba House. He makes it clear that the mosque is being funded and built by the very people who profited from the destruction of the WTC. The clear conclusion based on the supporters and the timing is that this project will serve the elite's agenda to refocus Americans on the "shock and awe" of 9/11 and the "threat" of Islam in the runup to the elections, as well as the buildup to new wars in Iran, North Korea, Yemen, Somalia, etc.

Feisal Abdul Rauf's membership in the CFR along with the various globalist foundations funding the ASMA and Cordoba Initiative point to the building of the Cordoba House as a deliberate and provocative move by the globalist elite to create more fear, anger, and hatred towards Muslims while expanding the manufactured "clash of civilizations."

Angry Americans will continue viewing Islam as an irrational, omnipresent enemy constantly menacing them. They will continue to believe that war and the erosion of their own natural rights are the only answers to this manufactured crisis. In reality the global elite that compose the CFR are consolidating their control over humanity. They realize the effect of 9/11 on America's psyche is fading and they sincerely hope that by building the provocative Cordoba House, emotions and ignorance will rule the day and their wars and crimes will carry on in earnest, completely justified in the minds of the witless masses.

Below is a list of a few of the CFR's corporate members.

www.cfr.org...

Bank of America
Goldman Sachs
Chevron Corporation
Exxon Mobil Corporation
General Electric Company
JPMorgan Chase & Company
Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
Lockheed Martin Corporation
Morgan Stanley
Shell Oil Company
Rockefeller Group International, Inc.
The Blackstone Group L.P.
Boeing Company
DynCorp International
KBR
Raytheon Company
Rothschild North America, Inc.

Many of these corporations have made trillions of dollars from the Iraq and Afghan wars, some even played integral parts in calling for the wars. Two of which, Veritas' DynCorp and KBR are in the top ten list of corporations profiting from the war in Iraq.

If the public can be played right, they all stand to make trillions more with an invasion of Iran, the subsequent rebuilding of its shattered infrastructure and the seizure of their southern oil fields. The Bill of Rights being repealed in the wake of this "war on terror" and justified with this continued "clash of civilizations" has enabled the various bankers on the above list to loot America and Europe with impunity and neutralize those who rise up in protest as "domestic terrorists."

Tony's message needs to be widely distributed. As one commentator mentioned on another forum, the public need to welcome this mosque with open arms. Recognise who's funding it and why and defeat them in this particular battle.

reply to post by ollncasino



I must agree with you that USA saved many muslims in Kosovo. If USA turned their back then , Serbs would ethnically clean that area. so muslims should kiss your american ass for that.

And for your info USA helped Croatian army in 1995 with logistics and intel info to break serb occupation domestically. so by that actions, USA will be our ally for long time. thnx

But you failed in Bosnia. weird , slow USA policy left everything in Europe hands and they did not do anything. Serbs made Srebrenica and then the world was shocked.

But at the same time the world who was shocked by Srebrenica act doesn't even think that most brutal, slaughtering army in Bosnia were muslims, imported from arab countries fighting their own jihad and not domestical Bosnian war. even bosnian muslims were known for slaughter with no prisoners taken.

so say what you will, from my war years i will always have some hate towards serbs, but most blood thirsty, slaughtering - by every meaning of the word- , cowardly fighters are muslims pretending to be our allies while they slaghtered us behind our back.

so whenever you see mosque, you'll see terrorists