Civility, decorum and the Aliens and UFO Forum

Question -- if that IS Billy Meiers that joined yesterday, is it "uncivil and lacking decorum" that his face is used for the HOAX forum as it is?
however you spell his name...

eta: Just looked -- he is already banned I guess...so nvm.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
Question -- if that IS Billy Meiers that joined yesterday, is it "uncivil and lacking decorum" that his face is used for the HOAX forum as it is?

edit on 10/28/2010 by Chamberf=6 because: however you spell his name....

I often wondered about that...like say if Greer joined, would I then have to stop calling the guy a crook and a hoaxer? Hmmmm...slippery slope indeed.

Billy Meiers is a liar and a fake who doctored pictures to fool people so he could make money...plain and simple.

I really, REALLY REALLY REALLY hope there is some sort of rule to defend the right to bluntly point out his "dishonesty" without getting in trouble.

If not...well...I'm gunna get in some trouble.


NVM- he was banned....woosh, dodged that bullet...WELL DONE MODS!

reply to post by OldDragger


I'm a member, a mod and a sceptic, and I think we don't have enough sceptics on ATS.

I have seen idiotic posts on ATS since the first time I found about it, sometime in May 2003, and it was an idiotic post that finally made me register and explain why that post was approaching that subject from a completely unrealistic point of view.

I know that people react in different ways, but we have nothing to gain by getting angry because someone on the other side of the world or on the other side of the street wrote something on the Internet, so I have always tried not to attract the wrong kind of answer and I also tried not to make those answers myself, although I had some problems during the last six years.

In some occasions my own posts were misunderstood, and whenever that happens the first thing I try is to explain what I meant, many of the problems in the world start from simple misunderstandings, when we think about something and write (or say) things without noticing that we are basing what we say in our own thoughts, so the other people cannot see things in the same way until we explain exactly what we are thinking.

As for the really bad posts, just use the "ALERT!" button, the staff needs the help of the other members to keep (or bring back, depending on the point of view) ATS on the right path, and that applies also to the staff, as the site owners have said several times. If you think you have not been treated as you should by a moderator you should file a complaint, they are seen and discussed by all the staff.

PS: I have seen other forums, but they are almost all "believers only" or "sceptics only" forums, and while that makes them more peaceful (for the lack of a better word) than ATS, the end result is that things cannot really be discussed when all people share the shame opinion, it would be like a football match in which both teams are from the same club.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
I agree that there are definitely some here for the exact purpose of "hoaxing and shenanigans". It just seems that sometimes even when it has become obvious that is their intent, they are let slide far too long.
It is as if the ideal of accepting everyones "opinions" and being PC in not calling a hoaxer a HOAXER, can sometimes allow these ATS enemies too much.

I, personally, when in doubt, prefer to let members keep on posting (if they are not clearly posting against the Terms & Conditions), I can never be really sure of what other people are thinking.

I do not know if the person is purposely posting something they know is wrong or a hoax or if they are also a victim of somebody else's hoax.

I know how censorship can affect the people's behaviour, even years after the fact (Portugal had a 48 years long dictatorship until April 1974), so I know how negative it can be for someone to be shut-up when they are only telling their feelings to other people, so I think it's better to let a possible hoaxer keep their story for a longer time to be sure that I am not being unfair to some innocent person.

I know that this way of thinking also affects the other people, those that feel insulted by what could be a hoaxer, but I think this way is still the best, because if the poster is a hoaxer he/she will be eventually exposed and everybody will go back to their lives, but if he/she is an innocent person that is not being understood as such and is banned before we can understand what's really going on on his/her mind, everybody will go back to their lives as they were except that one person that was unjustly accused of being a hoaxer and that may remember that for the rest of his/her life.

If someone is a hoaxer, give them enough rope and they will be exposed.

reply to post by ArMaP


I understand what you are saying and for the most part agree.
But:

those that feel insulted

not only feel insulted, we ARE many many times just because we don't, for example, believe that giant spaceships carrying Jesus and look like light squiggles are coming.

It just seems that the mentally and/or socially challenged get an extra freedom to harrangue and insult the "non-believers" a bit more just BECAUSE of the absurd ideas they put forth. Like "hey man, we can't offend the nutcase, because that isn't politically correct".

I'll drop it, I guess. But my "love affair" with ATS is going through a pretty rough patch right now.

OPEN YOUR MIND AND COME INTO THE LIGHT WITH ME. www.youtube.com... OOps wrong place, sorry.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
It just seems that the mentally and/or socially challenged get an extra freedom to harrangue and insult the "non-believers" a bit more just BECAUSE of the absurd ideas they put forth. Like "hey man, we can't offend the nutcase, because that isn't politically correct".

I think you should read your own post carefully. If you call believers "mentally and/or socially challenged" and "nutcases", perhaps it is not so strange that many of them will be provoced/hurt/insulted enough to insult you right back? Nobody likes to be belittled or ridiculed.

Not the best way to create an atmosphere where a topic can be discussed in a calm and somewhat rational manner. Focus on the facts and be a little respectful and polite to people, and I think you will discover that the vast majority will return the favour. If they don't, use the alert button or simply move on to another and more constructive topic or thread.

And as ArMaP pointed out, the hoaxers and liars will expose themselves anyway, if you give them enough rope. The facts always speak for themselves in the end.

My 2 cents.

reply to post by ziggystar60

...and until they are found out and after alert doesn't do the trick just take the abuse. Yeah, I know.
I don't think the honest believers are nutcases. I think the dishonest and hoaxers go over the top to appear mad to a point. they get away with a lot more that way.

I was aware of how it would be perceived when I wrote it.

My opinions.

In the threads that talk of outlandish ideas I ask questions. Point out fallacies. Am civil.

Reading this thread pissed me off though, andin I insulted no one directly. I made no ad hominem attacks against any ATS member. Anyway I received it through Gods voice coming from my Pleidian cat.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Chadwickus
The rubbish that we will see between now and the 2012 farce will kill ATS.

I don't think it will kill ATS. I think in the aftermath, those charlatans who hyped 2012 will be exposed for what they are. And those following them without thought or question will be exposed as well. They will be laughing stocks.

Nice positive thoughts there Doomsday... but the reality of the situation is somewhat different. I only need to point to the whole GFL/Blossom Goodchild fiasco. Of the hundreds that supported her on this forum and sung her praises, not one was exposed afterward. Not one was treated as a laughing stock. Mods removed any 'I told you so' posts and the 'followers' who posted page upon page of drivel got off scott-free. Even as I speak, Goodchild is gaining traction and up to her old shenanigans again. So much for lessons learnt!

The belief in these types of things or people is pathological and for the better part, cannot be cured. It's just a different manifestation of the 'religion gene'. The only difference being that the saviours are now the aliens. In the same way that some personality types flip from one religion to another, to a cult and so on... so do these people. It's pervasive throughout every culture on earth. The only thing that can change it for the individual is a personal epiphany. Something that happens to so very few.

IRM

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
not only feel insulted, we ARE many many times just because we don't, for example, believe that giant spaceships carrying Jesus and look like light squiggles are coming.

I was talking about feeling insulted by what is perceived as a hoax, not of being directly insulted, that's a different story, obviously, and that's in those occasions that we should use the "ALERT!" button.

It just seems that the mentally and/or socially challenged get an extra freedom to harrangue and insult the "non-believers" a bit more just BECAUSE of the absurd ideas they put forth.I know, that has happened to me many times, but that's not an excuse to act like them, that only leads to an escalation in the insults that will not end well.

If the original idea was to provoke then that member will probably start to reduce their attacks to look like the victim while the originally offended member, seeing that as a sign of weakness will, most of the times, increase the aggressiveness of his posts against the hoaxer/troll/whatever and will be the target of complaints that, some times, cannot be ignored by the staff.

Just avoid falling in their traps.

reply to post by ArMaP

Just avoid falling in their traps.

Advice heard but constant effort to heed.
locster told me that last night in a RATS thread, too, worded differently.

I understand why some attack what they perceive as a hoax. They care deeply for the Aliens topic and for the credibility of ATS. While caring for the content on the site it actually does ATS a disservice to attack a perceived hoaxer. Sure one can question BUT in a civil manner. Then it's a win/win.

reply to post by intrepid


That is the whole issue, to me, though.
Civil questions are often met with venom.
Requests for verification, giving proof the OP is wrong, and giving examples of rational explanations get "skeptics" often turned into the "enemy" targeted for abuse.

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by intrepid

 

That is the whole issue, to me, though.
Civil questions are often met with venom.

Then let the staff handle it. That's what we're here for. One can walk past a mudpit without wallowing in the mud.

I feel I need to add that I have seen what I can only describe as "unidentified" in the sky in the past, so yes I believe there are literal UFO's.
My grandmother and a VERY pragmatic elder ex-coworker (RIP) both swore they had seen a UFO. I fully trust their word.
So it's not like I think the UFO phenomena is bunk. But to say that for example, a specific "race" of aliens is doing this or that seems to require extra proof, being that such claims are much more specific.

Also I have never received any warns for my responses, and the only posts of mine that have been removed were all for being off topic -- not for any insults. So I don't feel like I have been 'wallowing in the mud".

reply to post by Chamberf=6


I've hardly seen "civil" requests met with venom, and if they are, usually they are dealt with.
I think more often than not it's the manner in which requests are made for verification, giving proof that the OP is wrong etc... It's one thing to say "I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion" or "Can you give me more information as to when/where this was taken" rather than "This is ridiculous. The OP has no proof. MODS ban this hoaxer." or "Yep. It's a tiny dot against a black background. Good job with flooding ATS with stupidity."

Just my 0.02

reply to post by Juston


Yeah, that's nice ,but I haven't been saying those things. thanks for assuming I'm an ass though.
Appreciated.
Regards
Chamberf=6

Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by Juston

 

Yeah, that's nice ,but I haven't been saying those things. thanks for assuming I'm an ass though.

You need to step back a bit man. He didn't say that YOU did any of these things, he was giving examples. Neither did I say YOU were "wallowing in the mud". You're taking things too personally imo.

reply to post by Chamberf=6


Chamberf=6,

Sorry if you took offence to that. But nowhere did I accuse you of anything I posted. The thread title is "Civility, decorum and the Aliens and UFO Forum" not "Civility, decorum and the Aliens and UFO Forum specifically directed to Chamberf=6".

So yeah. Sorry that I made you wanna curse at me. And to think, I actually had a lot of respect for you.

reply to post by intrepid


When a post says "reply to Chamberf=6" I guess I take it as a reply to me since that is my name here...

No?