9/11 even real pilots couldn't do it

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by MrHerbert

 

What does the above document say for Vd? What does the Illustrated Guide To Aerodynamics say outside Vd? Why do you avoid this as if it doesn't exist? Why do you avoid and evade a simple phone call to Boeing when you asked for a statement from Boeing?

Don't care. Letter from Boeing stating, with full technical explanation. Boeing letterhead. Preferably published on their website. And please no more cut and paste "Boeing" onto things you googled on the internet. Thats overly dishonest. And no more of your opinions. They really don't count for anything.

thats funny hoop

all the data can be 100% verified as being from Boeing that PROVES TiLA's arguments and exposes your criticisms and claims to be based on nothing more than pure disinfo, lies, and opinions that lack any credibility whatsoever.

So of course you "don't care" to see the actual evidence because it show you have no credibility to measure truth or the data.

iow, no one cares about your OPINION... its worthless, unlike the evidence and facts mrherbert has posted that you're unable to prove wrong.

How easy to prove you wrong when one only needs to copy and paste facts and evidence found on google.

the Irony or double standard being your attempt to discredit information using google when you yourself and others defending the criminal perps use google to post evidence claimed supports the OS lie.

Click here to learn more about this warning.

Originally posted by triforcharity

Pathetic.

Let us know when you jokers get some evidence for your argument and/or get a verified pilot to support your claims. You been failing for over 9 years and almost 100 pages.

AND yet another sock! Convincing people on ATS must be pretty important to "Cap't" Bob Balsamo else he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of creating so many banned personas. I guess contacting government or airline/aircraft unions or other aviation organizations is too easy - he has to concenbtrate on ATS.

See ya later.

Click here to learn more about this warning.

Originally posted by triforcharity

Pathetic.

Yes sir, Rob Balsamo is quite pathetic. It's teetering on mental illness. Really, it is.

Originally posted by trebor451

Originally posted by MrHerbert
Agreed, and the Burden of proof is on those who invade others. Let us know when you get some evidence for your argument, as you have been failing for more than NINE years, while also claiming those you argue with daily, are crazy.

edit on 30-12-2010 by MrHerbert because: (no reason given)

The latest Balsamo sock. We'll just add this to the ever increasing list.

Ya I supose diverting attention from the facts and evidence he's presented proving the OS about flight 175 was a lie is the only thing you and others can do after failing to disprove him for what, 98 pages now?

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by triforcharity

Pathetic.

Yes sir, Rob Balsamo is quite pathetic. It's teetering on mental illness. Really, it is.

whats far more and really pathetic is how after almost 99 pages no one has yet disproven the facts and evidence presented that supports Robs arguments and shows credibility that you and most here can only dream of.

Originally posted by lord9



whats far more and really pathetic is how after almost 99 pages no one has yet disproven the facts and evidence presented that supports Robs arguments and shows credibility that you and most here can only dream of.

Rob, seriously, do you realize how many sock puppets you have made? You're as bad a Sybil. I suggest checking yourself into a facility that is knowledgeable in treating multiple personality disorders.

If business is as good as you say it is at PFFT, then why are you spending so much time here?

But, but the hijackers trained with Microsoft Flight Simulator!

Originally posted by lord9



whats far more and really pathetic is how after almost 99 pages no one has yet disproven the facts and evidence presented that supports Robs arguments and shows credibility that you and most here can only dream of.

You haven't been paying attention? Odd.....

"facts and evidence presented"?? By whom, exactly? I didn't see anyone by the name of "Rob" presenting anything in the way of "facts and evidence". I have seen various "personalities" ....no, strike that...SAME 'personality', different NAMES, come to the thread and SPAM it with repeat after repeat after repeat after repeat of the same posts, that were called "facts and evidence", but in fact don't even relate in many ways to what is being discussed, and to the title, of this thread. AND, are diversionary in their intent, in any event.

The "NAMES" that keep returning, that all seem to share the same personality (really, the opposite of a "Sybil Syndrome") use irrelevant charts, and over-the-top innuendo and hyperbole. NOT ONCE were any counter arguments addressed, by any of the NAMES.....the NAMES who seemed to be more like an "agent" of a particular other website, here to merely parrot the "party script".

NO real attempt to engage, nothing innovative, just the same stale off-target "argument".

That other site? ALL smoke and mirrors...a "one-trick pony" that, like famous "Clever Hans", the "counting horse" hoax, manages to fool some of the people some of the time.

Oh, the "counting horse" imbroglio, in case you haven't heard of it??

Here: Clever Hans


Know what's hilarious??

Even today, the trick STILL WORKS!

reply to post by weedwhacker

In other words, the weedwacker, being a real pilot and all, CAN fly a jumbo jet, just as the OS portrayed. Even his training is used to help undermine the Constitution.

Normally I just ignore you. I'm not really replying to you. Just wanted to make it clear who, or what, I am responding about.

reply to post by ATH911

But, but the hijackers trained with Microsoft Flight Simulator!

Source??

What was the type of Microsoft product, back then? Did it even have anything that reproduced the controls of the 757/767? I don't know, but you seem to, so show us. I've never owned that product, and only see it on some YouTube videos, and of course have heard of it from trade advertising, and articles.

You can search the Webz, too, and find there are many VERY serious hobbyists who get their kicks, it seems, from spending loads of money to make their own "home" simulators. My hat's off to their dedication....boring to me, but hey! I've had the real thing.....

Also, while you look that up, you may wish to check the FBI profile information collected on the hijackers' activities, that was re-constructed and investigated. To ascertain their ACTUAL means of learning operational details of the 757/767.

Too, you can see the variety of training materials available, online....for a price, of course. You DO realize that even airline pilots train, as well?? Using very much the same types of materials. Books, manuals, photos (life-sized, of the instrument panels, and things). They, the airlines, GIVE YOU this stuff, when you're assigned to training, such as when transitioning from, say....the 737 to the 757. For the panels, instead of (relatively expensive) photos, there are these black/white diagram drawings instead....you can write on them, make notes, and stuff. They are for orientation, location of stuff, where it is in relation to everything else. That sort of thing.


LOTS of resources out there......

....but, I imagine you will just keep laughing, rather than learning...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by ATH911

 

But, but the hijackers trained with Microsoft Flight Simulator!

Source??

Sure...

FBI: Three Hijackers Had San Diego Ties
Men Thought To Share Local Residence

POSTED: 12:41 p.m. PDT September 14, 2001

One neighbor told 10News that he often saw a computer turned on inside the mens' apartment, with a flight simulator program running.

"I could look in, if the door was open. You could always see a flight simulator type of thing, with airplanes on it," Ed Murray said.

www.10news.com...

reply to post by ATH911


OK...still vague. As to what, exactly.

However, did you also know that there are DVDs too, that contain training materials and programs??

I'm thinking back to when we got a variation of the B-767 model, and what you have to do is undergo what's called "differences" training. It was the first time the company had purchased these DVDs, and had them FAA-approved for a self-study course, at home on your own computer. They were Boeing DVDs, and had some other company that made the proprietary program for the online portion.

This was in 1999-2000.

The deal was, you reviewed them at your own pace....and there was a point where you had to go online, and get all set-up and logged in, in order to get proper credit for completion. (AND PAY, of course!! Most important part! We always get paid for training, and it varies....but this was great, because this time, didn't have to go INTO one of the crew bases, and use those facilities. Most of us commute, live far from the actual base so this was a bonus).

IIRC, the videos had nothing "secret" about them.....and of course, they were tailored specifically to the airline, since often there are subtle differences between versions of the same model airplane that customers (airlines) buy and operate. (Engines, for example, as most people know already. Other options, too). So, they weren't "secret" of "limited access"...this is all pre-9/11....but, I have no idea how one would have found them for purchase. Of course, that's because it wasn't my JOB to "find them"; that was what the Training Department people did......

Hey!! Just went to Google, and guess what? Yup, stuff for sale, and anyone can buy it!! Go ahead, if you want. Might learn something!!

www.mypilotstore.com...

That, there, is the sort of thing geared for airline pilots....as you see, it's a "systems review" type of thing. Helps for those yearly (used to be twice yearly, for Captains; still is at some airlines, depending on their Training Program in place) simulator and other recurring checks and tests.

Turns out there ARE, nowadays, also Microsoft add-ons for their FS. (Maybe I can find one used, and cheap, just to see how accurate it is....). There is some hokey-looking "streaming video" so-called "Level-D" thing....LOL!! Looks like something some entrepreneurial airline pilot would start up, to make money on the side....LOL!

www.flyaoamedia.com...

Don't know if I want to waste $39.95 on it!! NO, I don't. BUT, if anyone does, would love to hear a "review" on it!!

Gosh, the InterWebz is surprisingly fun, sometimes....if you just bother to look and search around.....


Oh! And looky here!! In lieu of DVDs, good old-fashioned manuals (which have to be carried by the crew, BTW...paper manuals. UNLESS, some airlines are going to the "all electronic flight bag".....lucky b**tards).

Here, the very same manuals that pilots use, even specific to a company:

www.esscoaircraft.com...

I think it's a small price to pay!! (Pssst....kid! Wanna buy some Aircraft Manuals??)....nah, on second thought, mine are souvenirs......

reply to post by weedwhacker


You sure spend an extraordinary amount of time and energy trying to prove a story that's supposed to be what happened.

Originally posted by ATH911
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

You sure spend an extraordinary amount of time and energy trying to prove a story that's supposed to be what happened.

He sure does. Almost 100 pages of rants to defend a story which only crazy people would question? I'm guessing he is spending so much time on defending the OS because he is unable to provide any evidence of his own.

It is now page NINETY-EIGHT (73 past the initial prediction, and less than 2 more to go for the final prediction) -

The score remains -

Evidence for Tiff's argument (Reported speeds/control "impossible", "improbable", "The Elephant In The Room") -

Data -
NTSB
Boeing
Limits set by the manufacturer based on flight/wind tunnel testing
Illustrated Guide To Aerodynamics
NASA Research


Precedent -
EA990
China Air 747SP
TWA 727
737
Modified DC-8

All suffered in flight structural failure, crash and/or lost control and needed 10's of thousand of feet to recover, well below Vmo+150.... or was modified to exceed it's manufacturer's set limits in the case of the DC-8.

Numerous verified experts - (Many posted in this thread - www.abovetopsecret.com...), more listed here.



Evidence for the argument of those who blindly support the OS ("It is easy to control an aircraft at Vmo+150") -

"Because the govt told me so..."

Data = N/A
Precedent = N/A
Verified Experts = N/A


Again - To those who blindly support whatever their govt tells them -


Please let us know when you find one verified pilot willing to support your claims that it is "easy" to control a 767 at Vmo+150, Va+220 --and pull G's-- out of a 10,000+ foot dive, while rolling on G's cranking into a 38 degree bank, to hit a target with less than a 25' margin for error - for a pilot with less experience than one who couldn't control a 172 at 65 knots. Please let us also know when you have any type of evidence for your argument other than assumption or "Because the govt told me so...". You have been failing for more than NINE years.

reply to post by Cl1mh4224rd



Yo, how many times have you been kicked outta here mr Balsamo?

You have been posting this same vmo crap for 98 pages. Of cause you're gonna be slammed by real pilots.

Originally posted by C46driver
reply to post by Cl1mh4224rd

 

Yo, how many times have you been kicked outta here mr Balsamo?

Click - www.abovetopsecret.com...

You have been posting this same vmo crap for 98 pages. Of cause you're gonna be slammed by real pilots.

The same evidence has been posted for 98 pages due to the fact people like you have been failing to address it and instead attempt character assassination. You have also failied to provide one verified real pilot to oppose it, or any evidence of your own for that matter.

It was predicted on page 25 that people like you and weedwhacker would drag this thread out to 100+ pages evading the evidence.

Any one of the "debunkers" here could take it to 50 or 100 pages if they had to and they would keep ignoring it and keep calling you delusional, and keep signing on every day to argue with your "delusional" posts.

Source - www.abovetopsecret.com...


Seems he was right.

This must be the thread where Rob Balsamo is posting under a bunch of different user names?

Originally posted by shure
This must be the thread where Rob Balsamo is posting under a bunch of different user names?

edit on 1-1-2011 by shure because: spelling

Are you the same sure who made this phone call harassing a WTC witness?
vimeo.com...

Wow, that's pretty bad.