Christianity and its flawed concept of god.

reply to post by The Djin


Free will only pertains to belief.....................................

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


lol! funny how I can see that must be hard to read but makes since to me, jeeze I hate typing/writing and on top of that have had little sleep anyway-

I heard an audible voice that said-"my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish" before I knew any scriptures and never went to church growing up and later read in the scriptures this very thing would happen in the future, is that better?

I think the main problem here is that we as people try to make sense of God through our own understanding and that in many ways is the core of many problems we have on understanding His ways. He has to show it to you and give you the wisdom to understand it otherwise you'll run into a dead end. As far as religion goes it seems to limit God on what He can do in our lives which would make sense since religion is completely man made if you really think about it...

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
let me get one thing straight i have NO BEEF WITH GOD. what i do have beef with is YOUR CONCEPT OF IT. im very grateful for everyday in this reality and the gift of life.

I'm glad to hear that. Regardless of what doctrinal belief you come up with, appreciating life and the gift that it is is incredibly important.

secondly please dont waste your time with bible quotes. not only do they mean nothing but gibberish designed to confuse and obfuscate the point they have no relevance to the points i have raised. just stop and think about it for a second. if i believe the bible and the stories in there are not factual accounts and are metaphors and paraphrased stories with no historic backup how can you use the very text to prove the validity of the text?????? that makes no sense at all.

Well, that door swings both ways. If you wish to dismiss his Bible quotes, you can't really base your objections on what the Bible says. I don't think that we can answer all questions by quoting scripture, but it certainly has something to add to the conversation.

again my point is if god is all how can humans worship other gods???there cant be other gods. unless god is schizophrenic??

At the time in history that the events in question (effectively, the Exodus and the establishment of Israel as a nation) there were absolutely gobs of other "gods". Note the quotes. The term Baal, referenced many times in the OT, refers to local patron gods in that part of the world. The Jews themselves created the Golden Calf in Moses' absence and worshiped that. Was the calf a "god"? Were the gods that are referenced as Baal real existing entities?

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. God told the Jews that there may be many "gods", real or imagined, it didn't really matter, but he was the "big G", their God, the one from whom their blessing came. You could pray to the Golden Calf, but when you melted it down, what was it? Not a god, but a blob of gold. You can worship money, or a movie star, or yourself, but in the end, the money can be lost, and mortals die, so where is your god then?

Originally posted by Blueracer
If God isn't real, why do so many people continue to try and prove that he's not real? It isn't that God is like us, it's that we are like him. He made us.

The god you speak of was invented a little over 2010 years ago. Before that the god was actually the sun...Pagan rituals were mirrored and transformed to form the Christian religion by the clever people in power.

reply to post by tim3lord

Originally posted by tim3lord
The first thing that gets me about the biblical god is the fact that for one god seems so HUMAN??? Why would god be jealous?? thats such a primitive emotion. why would a supreme being have its creation jumping through hoops like a bunch of circus clowns????and why is more than half the world NOT ASKING THESE QUESTIONS??? are they that satisfied with the answers they get? or are they too proud to admit they got sucked in and scammed? why would god who is supposed to be all knowing put adam and eve to a test and be surprised with the outcome?? how in the hell can anything surprise god??? doesnt that defeat the purpose of being all knowing?? oh and please dont copy and paste bible verses to me.

Jealousy is not an emotion "in God", it is an emotion "in us". The same can be said in regards to pride......pride was not created for men......it is an attribute of God that was passed along to us in creation.

In spite of how it may seem, He does not have us jumping through hoops.
He exits in a different dimension, where time runs at a much slower rate than in our known universe. Our suffering here on Earth only lasts for a few seconds, in his eyes.

And as far as being all knowing, "all knowing" is a pretty abstract concept. I doubt if he could tell you what time bacteria no. 1,473,528 started wiggling around this morning in your toilet bowl. But I am sure that he could find out if he wanted to.

We are more important to him than bacteria, so much so that he sent his son to be crucified so that we can understand this.

reply to post by tim3lord

To the OP,
You can look at the Bible as a bunch of authors' opinions about God. In the Old Testament ...many authors where at different spiritual levels of understanding so what they would do is put human charachteristics on God because that was the only thing they knew .......

But the highest level attained was that by Jesus .....so the words of Jesus were most important of everything else in the Bible. Basically Jesus says a few things about God ....that God and his kingdom are within you, that he and God are "One" and that he wishes everyone would have the same "Oneness" that he and God have(Jn 17:21), he says to get into heaven you have to be born again ....which basically means an experience of Ego death.

The Old Testament is mostly just a bunch of Archaic views and human projections onto God. There are some cool mystical things in there, awesome poetry, and symbology like in psalms.

But once Jesus came he changed everything. In the OT they were trying to live by an impossible 800 some odd set of rules that no one can live up to. It was all faith based. Then Jesus comes along and says forget all that ....listen to what I say, go within, have ego death and then you will directly experience God's Oneness the way I do. It becomes sharing in the direct experiences of God ..


.....and when you experience, then you know, which is beyond faith

reply to post by tim3lord


It boils down to this.

When Jesus forgives us (and of course the Bible says God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same, don't ask, I think our fleshy brains can only comprehend so much) when he forgives us he will wipe the sin from his memory, effectively forgetting the sin.....not JUST forgiving. God also said that when everyone dies and families are ostensibly separated ....some going to Heaven....some to hell that there will be no tears in heaven ...only happiness. This again suggests that the memory of horrible things will be wiped from existance. That said, let's just suppose that God "wanted" to be surprised sometimes, yet still be in control. He could "forget" and then run his examinations. As for Jealousy. If God is all and knows all, that would suggest that he also encompasses all emotions (maybe more) as emotions are a part of the ALL. As someone stated before..... we are made in HIS image......not he in ours. Who says emotions, then, are a human trait?

reply to post by Phenomium

It boils down to this. When Jesus forgives us (and of course the Bible says God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one in the same, don't ask, I think our fleshy brains can only comprehend so much) when he forgives us he will wipe the sin from his memory, effectively forgetting the sin.....not JUST forgiving. God also said that when everyone dies and families are ostensibly separated ....some going to Heaven....some to hell that there will be no tears in heaven ...only happiness. This again suggests that the memory of horrible things will be wiped from existance. That said, let's just suppose that God "wanted" to be surprised sometimes, yet still be in control. He could "forget" and then run his examinations. As for Jealousy. If God is all and knows all, that would suggest that he also encompasses all emotions (maybe more) as emotions are a part of the ALL. As someone stated before..... we are made in HIS image......not he in ours. Who says emotions, then, are a human trait?

Sorry to say this, but as a CHristian myself ...I see your view of this as part of the old school archaic train of thought.

You say:

don't ask, I think our fleshy brains can only comprehend so much)

Thats the thing ...through direct experience you can know and experience God, the Spirit, Jesus. Not asking is to remain in ignorance. Question everything, ask every question. If you are at a church that says to not question ....then leave!!!!!

God also said that when everyone dies and families are ostensibly separated ....some going to Heaven....some to hell that there will be no tears in heaven ...only happiness. This again suggests that the memory of horrible things will be wiped from existance.

Thats just insane!!!! So I will be in Heaven happy ...knowing that most of my family members are in hell ...and so to not let that ruin my heavenly experience, God will simply wipe away the knowing of most of my family in hell .....come on man thats ridiculous. How can I be in heaven enjoyng when I know the rest of humanity is in hell and then just allow that knowing to wiped out of my memory. Preposterous.

As for Jealousy. If God is all and knows all, that would suggest that he also encompasses all emotions (maybe more) as emotions are a part of the ALL. As someone stated before..... we are made in HIS image......not he in ours. Who says emotions, then, are a human trait?

Sorry mate, that just doesnt cut it. When one becomes closer to what Jesus is ...then there is n Jealousy in site. That was a human projection on God....God has no need to be Jealous ...God is beyond Jealousy!!!!

reply to post by dominicus


theoretically, it doesn't mean he's jealous anyway. someone mistranslated it, probably due to translation bias. how can Jealous be jealous ? (that's a noun and an adjective. It's from the root, to be red in the face, which is Adam or Atum. It's a bit mixed up but basically the text says, that man (which really says adam not man) was made in the image of the elohiym (plural), males and females. so there was an entire race of males and females known as adam, which means red-skinned, who were created in the image of the gods. in essence, moses is saying that the gods created the adamic race in the image of the adam gods. the translators got all kinds of confused and translated it as one thing when it was two different "the adam." Essentially, there was the Adam (gods, called elohiym) most likley named after the Atum (the creator gods of the red skinned people), and the adam race of male and female red skinned clones, as it were.

just have to read it as close as possible to the original language, and it starts to pop right out at ya.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by undo]

Gen 1:27 So God 430 created 1254 man 120 in his [own] image 6754, in the image 6754 of God 430 created 1254 he him; male 2145 and female 5347 created 1254 he them.

the words with numbers after them were in the original text. the words without numbers after them, were added by translators.

the word "God" is "'elohiym" (plural)

www.blueletterbible.org...

the word "man" is "adam"

www.blueletterbible.org...

the verse actually says

Elohiym created adam image, image Elohiym created; male female created.

the word for "image" there comes from "tselem" which can also mean "images". i think images makes more sense, particularly since the elohiym are plural and they are creating plural adam, some of which are male and some of which are female (adam is probably also a plural, in light of the fact it ends with an "m", typically denoting a plural race reference like nephilim or teraphim or seraphim.

www.blueletterbible.org...

next time we see the creation of the adam, the two things are mixed together almost to the point of being completely obscured. what we have is eve (females) being made in the image of the Atum or the Adam (gods, the elohiym), and separately, the adam (males) being made in the image of the Adam or Atum. it's a bit confused but not so bad you can't fit the pieces together with a modicum of effort.

I dont think the god of the bible or any other religion that man made are real. Even if there is some kind of creator of this universe, he could care less about the people of this world. IMO people need that father figure who cares for them and listens to their problems.

God itself is a logical fallacy. He created all of us, loves us and cares for us, but lets all these horrible things happen to us. Just look at how us humans treat one another. Endless war and genocide for empire and profit. Where is this just and loving god and where has he been throughout history?

He must have known this was going to happen because he knows all. Why would he create such hate and evil in people? Is it the devils fault? Another fallacy because he created the devil. If you have any logic whatsoever, its easy to see that the gods of religions created on this earth are all man made. These gods are supposed to be so complex that us humans can never understand them, but they are jealous and angry? Two petty human emotions that normal people can get over, let alone some all knowing god.

It has never made any sense to me. It seems to me that most people think that we are really special and so much so that we must have been made by someone. We are nothing but a tiny planet in this impossibly massive universe and we are not special. Once we find out how common life is out there i think it will be a very humbling experience.

And it is going to happen.

reply to post by Ashes of the wake


the word for jealousy is red in the face, or red skinned. it means Adam or Atum. he's not saying he's jealous, he's saying he's Atum (the god of creation of the red skinned people (who were the egyptians).

from the tomb of seti I, the four races of man. notice the red-skinned guys?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/5d56364cb46d8da9.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 25-7-2010 by undo]

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

how can there be other gods? when god is everything.?????? care to elaborate?

I'd love to elaborate! See, one can take the term 'God' in the sense of an actual supreme being....or in the sense of idols/worldly possessions/wealth. If you, for a second, go with me here, that God did indeed create us, we are in fact his 'children.' His jealousy would stem from when his 'children' go loving other Gods (Possessions, idols) before him. Why wouldn't a father be jealous if his kids loved money more than him?

reply to post by fizliz


egads it doesn't mean he's jealous.
it's not translated correctly.

Originally posted by AProphet1233

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by antonia

 

im sure a supreme being with the capacity to manifest reality has the capabilities to keep its attention on every aspect of the creation. or it wouldnt exist. so im pretty sure the creator knows you and is watching you. or you wouldt exist to post this reply

Why would a creator need to pay attention to every aspect of creation? If creation was akin to a masterful work of art it simply needs to exist in itself. Picasso didn't feel the need to analyze his work...

Was Picasso's work self aware? There are a multitude of other reasons why I feel it's absurd to compare a person with a painting, especially in this sense.


I have a question for all the athiests but first I want to prefice:
(I know the OP does not want Bible verses thrown at him but I have to and the question will reveal why).


Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.




Job 36:36 Behold, God is great, and we KNOW HIM NOT, NEITHER CAN THE NUMBER OF HIS YEARS BE SEARCHED OUT!

Romans 11:33-36 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, AND HIS WAYS PAST FINDING OUT! For WHO HATH KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 2:6-7 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet NOT THE WISDOM OF -THIS- WORLD, nor of the princes of this world, that come to NOUGHT: But we speak the wisdom of God in a MYSTERY, even the HIDDEN WISDOM, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and BESIDE ME THERE IS -NO- GOD. (Whoops.. only ONE God..)





Basically, the Bible teaches that we simply can not understand God except for what He wants us to understand. If we can't apply any of the interrogatories to God then what do we have? I hope you all consider this question carefully. God set things up this way on purpose and this is also the reason the Bible states that we can only please God through faith. (There is no other way to get your head around God).




Let's examine the interrogatories a little more closely:

Who is God?
What is God?
When is God?
Where is God?
Why is God?
How is God?

As you can all see, it is impossible for our finite minds to answer these questions unless the answer is given to us. So where are you going to get YOUR answers from? I for one will simply believe in the Bible as it has revealed to me the WHO very well and I am very happy with that.

Collosians 1 15:20 He (Jesus) is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD, (One that we can get our head around) the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


And my favorite Bible verse:

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God."

So to all the people here who like to call other people fools? I'll just let the Bible call you one.


By the way, the Bible does not teach anywhere that God is some white haired old sky pixie.. nor does the Bible, or Jesus, teach religion. Religion is purely a man made exercise.




[edit on 25-7-2010 by ViewFromTheStars]

reply to post by tim3lord


hey listen man, if you even NEED to follow someone,then that just shows what you are in nature, a follower, you just are unwilling to live your own life,you just follow others. If you like following,then that's your choise,a choise that makes no sense to me since it limits you.

If you guys are fine with some antropomorphic entity that decides FOR YOU where you go after death and whatnot, and who decides based on his OWN RULES, so what you are describing is the mirror image of Adolf hitler, Adolf also decided over the fate of people based on his own rules and opinions, if Adolf saw it fit for you to be burnt alive,that is exactly what he did to you.

this god that has any choise in your OWN path in this life or any afterlife = Hitler
Any antropomorphic version of God,that is SEPARATE from you yourself and is not PART of you(because in essence,YOU ARE GOD).... that kind of version is a SLAVE-OWNER and SADISTIC PRICK... logically nothing else fits since he decides FOR YOU,and makes you suffer if you don't obey his rules.

plain and simple.


You guys will be surprised though,since when you die in this life,you will discover that there is no ONE SUPREME God,who decides your fate.
There will be an infinite amount of so-called Gods(just advanced powerful souls) and you will be one as well at some point in your eternal spiritual evolution. And the only judge,jury and prosecutor EVER will always be YOU yourself. Always have,always will,trust me. So you better think about what you have done and said and think hard,because if you don't approve of it now, you will surely not approve of it after death lol



[edit on 7/25/2010 by Valeri]

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Valeri]

Valerie

Yo uguys will be surprised though,since when you die in this life,you will discover that there is no ONE SUPREME God,who decides your fate.

That's an awesomely brazen statement to make.

1 question:

What do you base this belief on?

reply to post by fizliz


if god is jealous,then he is pretty dumb and has a low SPIRITUAL IQ haha, because a WISE father would not be jealous of his kid loving money more,but he would simply feel for him and try to help him for THE CHILD'S OWN SAKE, not because he himself is jealous of the love money receives from the kid.

Those are damn pathetic fathers who simply feel jealous of kids loving money more than them. Jealousy is not a wise man's game, it's a spiritually ignorant man's game,because it gives no solutions nor eases any kind of pain. Irrational ignorance is all that jealousy of any kind is.

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Valeri]

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars
personal experience first and foremost. But there is also a thing called NDE, might help to answer some questions you guys may have. Loads of info to go around.

www.near-death.com...
www.skeptiko.com... - scientific evidence
www.near-death.com... - scientific evidence
www.near-death.com... - scinetific evidence

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Valeri]

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Valeri]