North Korean soldiers defect to China fuelling fears of imminent military clash

reply to post by Danbones


How did Mao get into power again? ..Oh yeah, the US sold arms to both sides, but just didn't deliver the ammo to the nationalist chiang kai chek.
ooopsy




[edit on 15-7-2010 by Danbones]

Originally posted by Ben81

Indication : NK wants to kick US butt very hard
Why :
1) NK knows USA or other allies have sink the ship to create a war
2) USA keep putting weapons at the DMZ border
3) Castro have accused the USA in the sinking of the SK ship
4) NK still dont have any access to the case
5) UN,US,SK are still accusing/suspecting the NK in the world media news
6) both countries are still at war
7) NK wanted to sign a peace treaty with the US last january
(see the link from france24)
etc etc ...

So basically what you're saying is...
North Korea really wants to attack the United States, because the United States has been making it look like North Korea really wants to attack the United States.

Couldn't it just be that North Korea really wants to attack the United States?

reply to post by Maxmars

When you impose sanctions, blockades, and resolution you starve children and destroy what little social support that keeps the majority of the poverty-stricken subjects alive.

Economic war is war nonetheless.

The only difference is, in an economic war, the leaders remain untouched, only the people suffer. Since the leaders are not 'part' of the people, you accomplish little.

i agree 100% with you
those quotes .. are so true
they can be apply to many country
but its clearly the case in NK

thats why i dont beleive in any blockades or sanctions
the GOOD PEOPLE will be impacted but not to the leaders and other high officials

if you want a little chance to have peace talks with someone
dont give them economic sanctions or blockade them
it will only make suffer the people from the street ...

What caused it?
1. President Truman was interested in the Far East:

Domino theory:
Europe was not the only place where Communists were coming to power. In the Far East, too, they were getting powerful – China turned Communist in 1949. Truman believed that, if one country fell to Communism, then others would follow, like a line of dominoes. He was worried that, if Korea fell, the Communists would capture Japan.

Undermine Communism: In April 1950, the American National Security Council issued a report (NSC 68) recommending that America abandon 'containment' and start 'rolling back' Communism.

Cold War: Truman realised the USA was in a competition for world domination with the USSR. By supporting South Korea, America was able to fight Communism without directly attacking Russia.

2. Stalin, also, was involved in the Far East:

Kim Il Sung visited Stalin. In 1949, he persuaded Stalin that he could conquer South Korea. Stalin did not think that America would dare to get involved, so he gave his agreement. Stalin saw a chance to continue the cold war and discomfort America, but ‘at arm’s length’ – without directly confronting the Americans. Kim II Sung also went to see Mao Zedong, the leader of China, to get his agreement.

3. In 1950, Syngman Rhee boasted that he was going to attack North Korea. It was a good enough excuse – the North Koreans invaded South Korea.
This started the Korean War.

www.johndclare.net...

So the whole thing has been a proxy war amoungst ALLIES all along.
Anyone who thinks its is about ideology is just uninformed at best IMHO
Obama was a COMMUNITY ORGANIZER
and
They don't call her HITLERY for nothing.



[edit on 15-7-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 15-7-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by Magnus47


not inside the USA
the first thing they will strike will be the american bases in SK
and where the US have position new weapons near the border
and of course the loud propaganda speakers on the DMZ

if they start striking in the SK population
they will doom themself to hell
all the world will go against them

they release a statement about this
telling if the provocation continu they will strike first the loud speaker
NK treatening to strike SK loud speaker

what will be the US or SK actions over this ?
they will strike back hard the NK ...

reply to post by Danbones


yes ... proxy war from BIG empires
NK with China
SK with the USA

the SK warship sinking have inconclusive suspect
this is the proof that something else or somebody else was behind that attack ....
the Evil plan didnt work yet :
SK didnt revenge is warship
NK didnt fall for the trick of being accused of the SK sinking

hope no confrontation will take place
any killing is an abomination to human kind

Originally posted by Danbones
After all the times the US gov has been caught lying I can't believe anyone puts faith in anything the officail story says.

Hell, the US guv can't even tell the truth about Arizona according to the recent law suit. The US gove is treating them at about the same level as N korea...for upholding the Law.

How did HK get advanced weapons again...Oh yeah, RUMSFELD the flying monkey.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/912d8f236cf4.jpg[/atsimg]

we got to love the hypocrisy in the guy
rumsfeld is the king in that
war criminal is not enought to describe that guy

where is now is friend in the pic ?
hanged ... he should have the same faith...
Saddam is a war criminal
Castro is a war criminal
Kim junk ill is a war criminal

i dont even have word to describe D.Rumsfeld

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


kimmy ahahah his little son!!
i dont know what to think of him
hope he can be a better leader to the people that is father was

many regimes in the world today
needs a real change or replacement
TO PUT THEIR PEOPLE FIRST BEFORE THEM
that is not the case with cuba or NK
and "other" countries

UPDATE !!!

Good news for once
NK and UN hold talks
that can ease the rising tensions

why did NK agree on this ?
because UN didnt condemn NK to be principal suspect on this sinking

UN and NK first talks since the sinking

reply to post by Ben81

The much-anticipated meeting between military officers representing the United Nations and North Korea took place in the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea.

edition.cnn.com...

Thats literally a concrete prefab office-its the building with the two telephones in,which the north and south sometimes use to communicate.

The meeting will take place in the little room with a table in,which I have seen whilst researching the DPRK via you tube etc.
Its right in the DMZ.

All I think will happen is the NK representatives will denounce the recent ship sinking as a US plot.

I doubt anything peaceful will result from the meeting.
Just my opinion though,who knows what will go down.

Originally posted by taskforce4256
reply to post by Ben81

 

Who provoked who? Yada yada yada
This time, with the sinking of the South Korean naval vessel, they may have gone too far. The US sunk the ship??? Okay, now I know where you're coming from.

Google the USS Liberty aww heck here ya go the US has done some evil deeds.
If we can do this to US soldiers then why not foreign ones too?
Okay, now you know where he's coming from.

Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by taskforce4256
reply to post by Ben81

 

Who provoked who? Yada yada yada
This time, with the sinking of the South Korean naval vessel, they may have gone too far. The US sunk the ship??? Okay, now I know where you're coming from.

Google the USS Liberty aww heck here ya go the US has done some evil deeds.
If we can do this to US soldiers then why not foreign ones too?
Okay, now you know where he's coming from.

he is right i should have said MOSSAD

i know many stories of false flag operation
USS Liberty and 9/11 .... = Mossad false flag operations
like very much possibly the sinking of the SK vessel

when i say usa did it
i was saying the usa probably knew it before the attack
USA and Israel are very close friend
3/4 of the US congress are Pro-Israel (zionism)
but if the NK didnt do it .. who else ?
Mossad acquired 4 Germany non nuclear submarines
the same kind of torpedo that sink the SK warship
are in those 4 germany subs ...
coincidence ... I DONT THINK SO
so sorry if i said usa did it ... i wanted to say Mossad did it
but since Mossad and CIA are close friend to

it will never be revealed in the news
because that would cause harm to the national security act
they can go denied anything with this national security things

like Richard dreyfuss once said :
no to a 9/11 investigation (it would be bad for the usa if people knew the real truth)

R.Dreyfuss telling NO to the truth (youtube)


[edit on 7/15/2010 by Ben81]

I think a few people need to be reminded of some facts.

1. North Korea, South Korea and the UN are technically still in a state of war, in 1953 a cease-fire agreement was signed by all parties but officially a peace treaty has never been signed by any of the parties.

2. Every few years North Korea tests South Korea with border incursions with anything from firing artillery across the DMZ to crossing the border with small commando groups. Ask anyone who has served in the US 2nd Infantry Division who has served on the line at the DMZ.

3. Where is the US going to get the troops to fight in Korea unless the US has reinstated the draft we don't have the manpower to fight a full engagements in Korea at this time due to our current global commitments.

If i was an average north korean i would attempt to leave the country too, they have no food or medical supplies except for the parties elite and live under constant fear of being denounced by their friends, family and neighbors.

Originally posted by Ben81
UPDATE !!!

Good news for once
NK and UN hold talks
that can ease the rising tensions

why did NK agree on this ?
because UN didnt condemn NK to be principal suspect on this sinking

UN and NK first talks since the sinking

The UN didn't condemn NK for the attacks because NK said that action would lead to war...

What are you talking about that NK wouldn't attack the SK population? They have repeatedly made it clear that they would turn Seoul into a sea of fire...

Originally posted by Ben81

Indication : NK wants to kick US butt very hard
Why :
1) NK knows USA or other allies have sink the ship to create a war

A. They sunk the ship and now the less knowledgeable of the Korean situation see false flags everywhere including under their beds.

2) USA keep putting weapons at the DMZ border

B. Trying offset North Koreas 10.000 cannons all aimed at Seoul

3) Castro have accused the USA in the sinking of the SK ship

C. The man gets up at least 15 times a night to urinate. Walks into the closet and relieves himself half the time.

4) NK still dont have any access to the case

D. No need. They have the people who fired the torpedo.

5) UN,US,SK are still accusing/suspecting the NK in the world media news

E. Well that means the entire planet is wrong and little Kimmy is right.

6) both countries are still at war

F. Yeah but only one keeps threatening war every fifteen minutes if somebody in South Korea farts and is nuclear armed.

7) NK wanted to sign a peace treaty with the US last january

G. They always want to sign a peace treaty then ask for something totally unexpected and usually retarded.

H. etc etc ...


[edit on 15-7-2010 by SLAYER69]

The only possible cover-up I would consider realistic for this scenario is an accident. There are numerous reasons to suspect that the Cheonan was hit by an American rising mine - which would be far more likely to split a ship in half than a torpedo - such as the numerous American rising mines that WERE planted around that area on the DAY of the ship's sinking, as part of a massive but peaceful annual war exercise between the American and South Korean navies that WAS taking place. As for the torpedo they found, somebody had written its markings on top of an already rusted surface.

Even 25% of South Koreans are suspicious of this. Our military is always obsessed with keeping a strong image, and accidents DO happen. I wouldn't be surprised if this were a cover-up for what would otherwise be a huge embarrassment in our relations with South Korea. Check out some of the points they're making in the Wikipedia article. As you read down you'll see some interesting things:

ROKS Cheonan sinking

Originally posted by Ben81

Indication : NK wants to kick US butt very hard

I believe that a senior Pentagon official, when asked about the threats that NK seem to voice every few weeks about war with the US, replied:

"Why and with what?"

english.donga.com...

NK Security Agencies Wage ‘Loyalty Contest’ for Successor

Sources on North Korea say the communist country’s prisons are filled as the Ministry of People’s Security and the Ministry of State Security have been rounding up people since the announcement of a joint statement on “sweeping away impure forces on February 8.”

News of public executions has also surfaced. So what is happening in the North?

○ ‘Loyalty competition’

According to sources, the two ministries since February have conducted tight surveillance in the border area near China. They internally declared a “period of combat” in focusing large-scale inspection and air wave detection activities in border areas to indiscriminately arrest people trying to escape the North, those helping them, and holders of Chinese-made mobile phones.

Sources call the atmosphere around border areas “brutal.”

Radio Free Asia and Open Radio for North Korea reported late last month that three North Koreans were publicly executed after being convicted for murder and human trafficking.

The North Korean Intellectuals’ Solidarity, a group of North Korean escapees in South Korea, said 14 residents of Musan County in the Stalinist country’s North Hamkyong Province will soon be executed for attempting to flee from the North, helping other escapees, possessing mobile phones, and trading narcotics.

A source said more people will be executed in Hoeryong, North Hamkyong Province.

The solidarity said Tuesday that the Ministry of People’s Security is seeking to computerize resident registration numbers across the North by 2012 to strengthen government control over the people and investigating missing people in the process.

Another source said a “loyalty competition” has begun between the two security agencies since Kim Jong Un, the third son of and heir apparent to North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, has begun to exercise his grip over the organizations.

○ Cheonan sinking follows junior Kim’s takeover of consolidated bureau

Kim Jong Un last year concentrated on taking over intelligence agencies. As a result, the operations and intelligence departments of the ruling (North) Korean Workers` Party and the reconnaissance bureau of the Ministry of People’s Armed Forces were integrated into a general reconnaissance bureau, with the junior Kim given the authority to make final decisions.

Following his takeover of the consolidated bureau, the North sent agents to South Korea in an unsuccessful mission to assassinate Hwang Jang-yop, a former Korean Workers’ Party secretary and the highest-ranking North Korean official to defect.

South Korean intelligence says the March 26 attack on the Cheonan was led by the general reconnaissance bureau. Speculation is rising over whether Pyongyang is growing more radical regardless of whether the junior Kim gave a direct order for the attack to impress his father or if his subordinates are competing for his favor.

Sources on the North say the junior Kim’s next goal is to gain control over the Workers` Party, which will hold its representatives’ convention in September. The party is undergoing a generational change in which senior elderly members are being replaced by the young elite.

In that respect, the death of Ri Je Gang, senior deputy director of the party’s organization and guidance department, reportedly from a traffic accident early last month holds meaning. Gaining control over the party is more difficult than over intelligence and security agencies.

Sources also say the junior Kim’s takeover of the military will be the final step in his succession process that will likely be completed by 2012, when the North aims to declare itself a “powerful and prosperous country.”

North Korea's posturing is very much for the "benefit" of its own people as well as for the outside world. NK knows the only way it can keep an increasingly disaffected populace from revolt is by attempting to unify it by appeals to an outside threat.

This has become especially important now that the North Korean people are getting more access to non-filtered information from the outside world. The Northwest border with China has become very porous and there is a lot of human movement back and forth. Lots of cell-phone images and DVDs from around the world are making it into NK for the first time ever, and the traditional government propaganda apparatus is breaking down. In the face of this, the government is becoming more shrill and desperate in order to consolidate its hold over its own population. Most North Korea watchers are almost entirely ignorant of this aspect of NK's propaganda games. Their constant stream of over-the-top pronouncements and threats are directed more at scaring their own people than provoking an actual war. That's not to say they aren't dangerous...a cornered, desperate beast is never a safe thing,

And on June 17, authorities responded to a fire at the Hoeryong Paper Mill caused by the burning of a large amount of old North Korean currency.

Pyongyang scrapped its old currency in late November and allowed its people—whose economy has been in freefall since the mid-1990s—to exchange only a limited amount of the old money at a rate of 100 to 1.

The move wiped out the savings of millions and sent prices skyrocketing..

www.rfa.org...

100 to 1 exchange rate for new currency. Thats one way to control the people.