How to perform a citizen's arrest on a criminal police officer? policing the police?

Here's an idea;

Stop changing the subject by stating the obvious (which I already stated in the OP) and twisting my words.

Anyone who can read should be able to tell I was talking about my example, you know, the one I just made, the one you quoted and responded to, which I in turn responded to...

Originally posted by Highground

Originally posted by alaskan
"Oooh it was horrible how that cop beat up that old man with everyone just standing around videotaping, I sure hope justice is served"

Ten months later there'd be a blurb about the cop getting a three month paid vacatio... administrative leave.

Because you see police beating up the elderly every day? How about at all?

Originally posted by alaskan

Originally posted by Highground
Because you see police beating up the elderly every day? How about at all?

Pick up a dictionary and look up the word "typify." It was just what's known as an 'example.'
I'll make it easy for you...

And it's pretty obvious that doing to one of these guys what they do to others would make them think twice about doing it, whether the courts follow through or not.

please don't respond to this anymore. There's no reason for you to post here.

You might as well copy/paste "it's futile, you're going to get your ass handed to you" a thousand times and keep reposting it. It's all the "substance" you've "contributed" to this thread, and we're just cluttering it up going back and forth.

Originally posted by alaskan
Here's an idea;

Stop changing the subject by stating the obvious (which I already stated in the OP) and twisting my words.

Anyone who can read should be able to tell I was talking about my example, you know, the one I just made, the one you quoted and responded to, which I in turn responded to...

Originally posted by Highground

Originally posted by alaskan
"Oooh it was horrible how that cop beat up that old man with everyone just standing around videotaping, I sure hope justice is served"

Ten months later there'd be a blurb about the cop getting a three month paid vacatio... administrative leave.

Because you see police beating up the elderly every day? How about at all?

Originally posted by alaskan

Originally posted by Highground
Because you see police beating up the elderly every day? How about at all?

Pick up a dictionary and look up the word "typify." It was just what's known as an 'example.'
I'll make it easy for you...

And it's pretty obvious that doing to one of these guys what they do to others would make them think twice about doing it, whether the courts follow through or not.

please don't respond to this anymore. There's no reason for you to post here.

You might as well copy/paste "it's futile, you're going to get your ass handed to you" a thousand times and keep reposting it. It's all the "substance" you've "contributed" to this thread, and we're just cluttering it up going back and forth.

I would post in further detail, but your apparent views of the level of corruption involved would make it futile. If you can't go to the DA to lodge a complaint, how do you expect them to react to you bringing in a police officer?

Once you ease up on the "the whole system's a fascist orgy" nonsense, I will tell you exactly what you want to know. Until then, there's no point.

Just an idea...Why not dial 911 and report the incident so there is a public record of it. That way you are not placing yourself or anyone you are with in harm's way, and it will be investigated.

I am in the UK:

An off duty copper (who I had history with) came into my bar one Sunday night when I was not there. He demanded a drink and flashed his warrant badge at the bar staff, it was closing and after hours. So he was refused. He started making threats so they called me. I told them to call the police and report it.

The police attended, he was told to bugger off. The next day the bar member gave a statement and the guy was disciplined by his inspector. I have never seen him 'on the beat' since or had any contact from him, and this guy was causing me real hell without doing anything illegal prior to this. Imagine however if I had gone to the bar that night and things had descended into violence (as had happened at another location previously when he was drunk). I would have been perceived as being in the wrong with the authorities and no doubt charged.

My point is use ALL official channels when dealing with the police, do not do anything rash and do not attempt a citizens arrest on anybody unless the police refuse to attend a crime or cannot for whatever reason.

On another issue:

does anybody truly believe that there is more corruption in the police forces of the world than in any other profession? I think all people are corrupt to the same extent give or take a few percentage points.

E.G. my girlfriend had to have a scan at the local hospital, her wait was 6 weeks. However her best friends stepmother is in charge of appointment scheduling at the hospital and lo and behold the next day she suddenly had an appointment for the following week!

This is corruption, it is not victimless as somebody else would have had to wait longer for an appointment whether it was 20 mins or a week. We benefitted from this corruption but somebody else undoubtedly lost out. The act of the friends stepmother was an abuse of power. That is also what I think a lot of people accuse the police of and I would say this is right in some instances but no more or less in general than any other profession where people routinely abuse their power just without the big outcry and targeting for reporting of misdemeanours.

A further example - UK M.P.'s and their expenses only a certain percentage abused their power to make frivolous and in few cases fraudulent claims.

I'd love to know the percentage figure of corrupt people in any given situation. There must be some studies. I will hunt further. I also bet that in terms of actual numbers that the police are nowhere near the most corrupt!

I don't know why you people refuse to acknowledge that I'm not talking about dealing with corruption, but about stopping someone from [further]committing a violent criminal act.

The sad thing is there is nothing you can do if your faced with a criminal cop, which is wrong as they should work for the law, not be above it.









[edit on 11-7-2010 by lifttheveil]

reply to post by Highground


im still waiting for this detailed incite you keep teasing us with.

you can go ahead and use my example, as it really happened. the whole life or death aspect kind of nullifies all the garbage your derailing attempts keep making reference too.

crazy drunk off duty cop loses it and starts waving a gun around. there's no phone, but several people. lets say there's an opportunity for you to safely make this "citizens arrest"..i dunno she set the gun down to tie her shoe...

HOW DO YOU DO IT?

now we can stop pretending that a situation like this is impossible, and focus on what to do if it were to happen. if you do not have an answer, please do not continue replying.

cue the "you must be a cop-hater" responses...

law enforcement officers drink.

some even do drugs.

they are humans too, it would be foolish not to prepare accordingly.

[edit on 11-7-2010 by LurkerMan]

I've just read through this thread and here is what I've learned. First, police are people too and that means there will always be one who lets his/her emotions get in the way of their judgement now and then. Second, if a cop appears to be overstepping their authority, remember, you might not know the whole story, so it's always best to call 911 and have other police come to handle the situation so you don't endanger yourself and those around you.

God willing, no one will ever be in a situation like this, but it's nice to know how to handle it if we do. Thanks OP!



[edit on 11-7-2010 by Kaiju]

In Mexico the police are so corrupt and brutal that if one wants to get some justice or stop them from omitting a crime, one will often have to resort to the use of anonymous force.

Anything else will result in the corrupt system and the paramilitary forces destroying your life - maybe going after your family.

reply to post by alaskan


Honestly I believe that in the event that you describe in your OP, regardless of whether or not the what the officer is doing at that time is against the law, the officer was on duty and acting within the scope of their duty (i.e. enforcing a law) trying to stop the officer from doing so would be obstruction.

Long story short:
--If the cop's on duty, it's not going to happen unless there is a consenting crowd whom also believe that the officer committed a crime but that can snowball real fast. Any time a crime is committed by an officer, while on duty and acting during the course of their duties, the complaint of a crime committed would have to go to the Internal Investigations Unit or the like and would proceed from there.

On another note:
--If in your beliefs that a complaint won't either be taken seriously or is taking to long to resolve then lawyer up. There are numerous public and non-profit private agencies in American cities that combat on-duty police crimes and misconduct and will keep the II Unit on their toes to resolving the matter. I wouldn't completely write this recommendation off as a hopeless fight because the one most important lasting detail is the paper trail you've created that will go in that officer's Personnel file. Writing off doing this is akin to not making a police report because your car got broken into and you think it's useless in having a police report done. The report would become another crime statistic which can be used during department COMSTAT meetings to find way to mitigate that certain crime in that area and creates a M.O. for a possible repeat offender.

--If corruption in the system becomes a clear problem and all other forms of resolving the matter fail because of that corruption, you should take it to the streets and try and inform the public of the crimes that have been committed and work to change the system. If enough of the public can change the law, I may not agree with it, but the law is the law and I'm responsible to dutifully follow it or I suffer the consequences put fourth in that law.
It won't be a walk in the park and expect the worst from those that WANT to endanger you, but if you and those around you believe you are right don't stop fighting but do expect resistance

--I hope what I said has been any help. I work as a civilian Sheriff's Cadet(Job code: 8300) in the SFSD, with multiple police officers and federal agents in my family, and I know for a FACT that those officers that commit crimes on the job do recieve some form of disciplinary actions for the crimes they commit. If you don't agree with the punishment again, like I said before, fight to change it. If you have any questions I'd me more than pleased to answer.

[edit on 7/11/2010 by mistafaz]

Originally posted by mistafaz
...if you don't agree with the punishment again, like I said before, fight to change it.

Like I've been trying to convey from the start, I'm not writing off anything about reporting the criminals to their employers, I'm trying to figure out what could actually be unlawful about stopping some thug from assaulting/maiming/potentially killing someone who's done nothing wrong.

Originally posted by mistafaz
Honestly I believe that in the event that you describe in your OP, regardless of whether or not the what the officer is doing at that time is against the law, the officer was on duty and acting within the scope of their duty (i.e. enforcing a law) trying to stop the officer from doing so would be obstruction...

What event are you reading? There wasn't a single lawful thing about what I described. What law could they have possibly been enforcing that would call for the actions they took against an elderly, bedridden woman?
Did you read the linked article or any other reports about it?

reply to post by alaskan

Like I've been trying to convey from the start, I'm not writing off anything about reporting the criminals to their employers, I'm trying to figure out what could actually be unlawful about stopping some thug from assaulting/maiming/potentially killing someone who's done nothing wrong.

--Because in the course of what YOU say the cop is doing illegal, the cop is going to say that you attempted stop them while acting in the course of their duties (obstruction) and any physical contact will be assault on an officer. Whether or not the officer was acting in the course of their duties ILLEGALLY is going a to be him versus you thing which will have to be handled by their IA Unit because they were acting under the color of law when the crime was committed. Cops acting wrongfully under the color of law are investigated differently from civilians when a crime is involved.

What event are you reading? There wasn't a single lawful thing about what I described. What law could they have possibly been enforcing that would call for the actions they took against an elderly, bedridden woman? Did you read the linked article or any other reports about it?

--The cops that did the things in that incident may be unlawful, if proven a law was broken, but they were in the course of their duties as police officers responding to a call and no matter how you see you won't be able to do a citizens arrest on that officer because, again, you'd be arrested for obstructing whether warranted or not.
Was that a bad situation? Yes, very. If there's been any more actions made in this case I'm sure if the actions were proven illegal and no other officers at the time made any attempt to stop the crimes from being committed they're completely in the wrong too.

[edit on 7/11/2010 by mistafaz]

Originally posted by mistafaz
--Because in the course of what YOU say the cop is doing illegal, the cop is going to say that you attempted stop them while acting in the course of their duties (obstruction) and any physical contact will be assault on an officer. Whether or not the officer was acting in the course of their duties ILLEGALLY is going a to be him versus you thing which will have to be handled by their IA Unit because they were acting under the color of law when the crime was committed. Cops acting wrongfully under the color of law are investigated differently from civilians when a crime is involved.

I can understand this. Let's say it happens this way and I bring the cop to court. Let's also say that I have video evidence of the whole thing unfolding, and a handful of eyewitnesses willing to take my side. One of them hypothetically has cell phone footage from minutes before the cop arrived, to the time we drove off.

Could I still be charged with anything aside from interfering/obstruction if it's plain as day that the cop needed to be stopped, so long as I followed the guidelines of a lawful citizen's arrest?

I know assault charges would come up, but would they be repealed in light of the hypothetical evidence?

Originally posted by alaskan

I can understand this. Let's say it happens this way and I bring the cop to court. Let's also say that I have video evidence of the whole thing unfolding, and a handful of eyewitnesses willing to take my side. One of them hypothetically has cell phone footage from minutes before the cop arrived, to the time we drove off.

Could I still be charged with anything aside from interfering/obstruction if it's plain as day that the cop needed to be stopped, so long as I followed the guidelines of a lawful citizen's arrest?

I know assault charges would come up, but would they be repealed in light of the hypothetical evidence?

--In the situation of going to court, with the evidence you say you can provide, it sounds like you have a well put together case. The out come will ultimately be up to a jury.

--That's when you call 911, so there is an incident recording of someone calling to report an officer breaking the law. If it's blatant that what the cop's doing is excessively forceful to the point of death or great bodily injury then there's not going to be a jury who's going to convict you. That's precisely why you need to call 911 to report this so if the cop calls for backup, the responding units have clue to what actually going on. Remember to think for a second, though, the possibility that when backup arrives that the officer may only see another cop getting accosted or harassed.

--If that cop is found guilty of committing a crime that lead to your arrest whilst you were trying to stop the officer, it's Fruit of the Poisonous Tree. So it means that all charges should be dropped unless you acted in a way that was unlawful in the scope of making the citizen's arrest and that consequently allowed a charge to stick. In my opinion though, I'd find that highly unlikely considering the event.

It's nice getting replies that aren't emotionally driven knee-jerks