The Feminist Movement—Ruining The Image Of Men

As a woman, I wholeheartedly agree. haven't read through the rest of the posts yet. Honestly this thread doesn't fit with my image of the OP and after reading I can understand why.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Sorry, I usually don't post silliness in serious ATS threads but just couldn't get this song out of my head when reading our posts. lol

And it won't be by competing with men or putting men down.

I feel the same way on both accounts. Both genders really need to realize we both have unique gender-based attributes to bring to the table. And we can do that without putting the others down or feeling like one set of instinct is more valuable than the other.

In response to the OP. I would have to agree on a few things. But I would also agree that men haven't exactly made it easy on themselves either.

I will use a personal example

My ex fiancee. I left her two weeks before our scheduled marriage date. Why? Well, she will tell you it is because of my stubborness and refusal to see the truth. I will tell you that it was because she had the same problem. I see now that it was the both of us.

While she was out partying and having a good ol' time with all of her male friends, I was at work 12 hours a day making sure we had a place to live and food to eat. When we got into a fight, I was being unreasonable and not letting her have fun. According to her.

But where does the line get drawn? Women today have this skewed perspective that men need to pay their bills, do their laundry and turn a blind eye to their promiscuity. All the while, they treat men like the slaves who are no better than a cockroach.

Sorry if I offend alot of women with this post. But I have yet to meet a woman here in Dallas who can treat me as an equal. Or who will shut their damn mouth for more than 2 seconds and listen to the world around them.

"It seems that today’s feminism is all about reducing the male gender to nothing. Continually pushing an agenda that seeks to demonize and put down the male perspective in favor of that of women. "

It is axiomatic that every sensible social movement for equality has the idiot faction. We get terrible outcomes when the idiot faction takes over the movement. I believe that the pendulum will swing back.

Now this does not mean that I am a wimp nor a knuckle dragging macho thug.
I am all for full female equality but not female (or male domination).

I believe that young boys need to learn to clean the toilet because lord they make a mess at times.

I just wanted to make a statement about my concern for the blanket statements and stereotypes going on in this thread. Not all women are like this and not all feminists are either. There are extreme feminists out there just as much as there is misogynistic men. Some women think all men are scum and some men think all women should serve them.

My boss told me a story about how her mentor, a female CPA, was given a prestigious award for being woman of the year here in Boise. Many people got up and gave their speeches and told anecdotes about their experiences with her. One got up and read the acceptance letter she received back in the 70s when she was given the job at Deloitte, a prominent CPA firm. The letter, written by her new male boss, explained what her salary was and said it wasn't as much as she expected due to the fact that she was a woman.

I was flabbergasted and it made me understand why feminism was bound to happen. Admittedly, some have taken it way too far, but I liken it to an abused women who suddenly fights back after several years of beatings. Some women simply get the courage to take the kids and go. Some women wind up killing the guy. This is how I see it with feminism.

Originally posted by dean007
i do enjoy women in action scenes but come on how can we think there are that many women who can physically beat a man up

I know what you mean!

A kick to the face maybe, I'm sorry but a 108 lb woman is not going to inflict much damage punching an average full grown man in the face!

2-3 years ago my wife pointed out how commercials paint men as being childlike bumbling idiots. She was right!

How many times have you seen a commercial on TV where the man is trying to cook something, screws it all up and then orders out? Or hes fouled up a home improvement project only to have his wife call a professional?

Here is a very interesting article from the Futurist!
Its all about how feminism have evolved over the years!
Read This Now!

Originally posted by Niccawhois

2-3 years ago my wife pointed out how commercials paint men as being childlike bumbling idiots. She was right!

I noticed the same thing. You always see some average slightly "dorky" guy with some beautiful wife in commercials and sitcoms. Interesting how I see it a different way. I see it as what is most likely a male commercial or tv show producer only choosing beautiful women to play parts because know one wants to look at an ugly woman. Average looking men might see other average looking men as attractive.

You also mention that they show men can't cook. I see it as reinforcing the notion that woman are the one's who are supposed to cook for a reason.

You mention that they show men being unable to fix something and the woman has to call a professional. Not all men know how to fix things and of course a maintenance company is going to highlight this fact in their ad so you will call them in this situation. But do you notice how they never show the woman trying to fix the problem herself either?

In hardware store commercials, they always show a guy going to get the supplies. Why would a woman be in a hardware store after all?

My point is, it is all about perspective.

reply to post by Mr. Toodles


Hmmm...interesting. I have the same fights with my boyfriend except he's the one going out whenever he wants, I pay the bills (make sure they get their money, I'm not saying I'm the only one bringing money in) and clean the house and do the laundry.

As a woman, I just threw up a lil in my mouth. Men kill more, rape more, attack more, molest children more than women. Women are thought of as second class citizens (more so in certain cultures). Women sometimes get paid less. And when a few women complain about it men say they are being victimized by feminists..........excuse me a moment I just have to go cry you a river....

reply to post by Mesdoline


Could you be so kind as to provide some back up to your claims.

Specifically for the attack more (instigate violence) and molestation.

Man, Woman, Black, White, insane, sane....

Or

People.

Hm, you all be the judge on how you want to view ourselves.

Oh... THIS is going to be FUN!

*EDRICK'S SUPER REPLY COMBO POST!*

@StandingWest

It's not so much "Men" and "Women" that are being challenged here as much as it is the definition of their roles. Individuals are pretty much capable of sharing any task regardless of whether they're a "Tab A" or a "Slot B".

Well then... if men and women are "Pretty much capable of sharing tasks" then why do we have separate genders in the first place?

Why are we not one homogeneous hermaphrodite race?

It is called "Division of Labor" or perhaps... Putting the Aces in their Places.

Why?

Simple.... it's the Cold Hard Iron rules of Economics. (I mean Mother Nature's Economics)

Equal pay for equal work has been a difficult thing for a Patriarchical society to accept.

It's been even MORE difficult for the Women to *DO* equal Work, actually.

There is a GREAT reason that Women make less money than men.... they WORK LESS, They take more time off, they change jobs more, and they prefer schedule flexibility over making more money.

Simple as that.... women don't WANT to work like men.


@Helmkat

I think Men have done a pretty good job of ruining our image without any help!

You mean the part where men Forge Society from the Bare Earth with nothing but their ManTASTIC Muscles and Intellect?

Or the part where men have created most all innovations that make this "Progressive" society possible?

Equality is blind, it does not care about gender, sexuality etc.

EQUALITY DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

Men and women ARE NOT EQUAL, they have NEVER BEEN, and they NEVER WILL BE.

You are trying to describe Two different beings as the same thing... and this is a fallacy.

Men and Women are COMPLIMENTARY parts of the same organism, and this means that their talents DO NOT OVERLAP.

Women are good at some things, and men are good at other things.


IF we were meant to be EQUAL, then WHY DO WE HAVE TWO SEPARATE GENDERS?

Seriously...

I say the answer is "yes" and that self reflection is a good thing, as a people we can no longer afford to squander our potential boxing ourselves into "roles".

Well, I hear that you can get that kind of surgical operation in south asia for pretty cheap... However... you will only APPEAR to be "Equal"


@mothershipzeta

Don't forget heterosexual and able-bodied - These heterosexual able-bodied white men do have it SO very hard!

Yeah, because Heterosexual Men who are not disabled have ALL SORTS of public action committees and government moneys being POURED into giving them a leg up.

We don't get a step ladder to climb over the wall, we don't get Straight White Male Quotas in the workplace, we don't get all of these *PRIVLIDGES* that the other "Oppressed" groups get.

And before you respond... Find me *ONE COUNTRY ON EARTH* that mandates the hiring of Straight White males by Quota systems, like the Western World has for Women and "minorities"

@KyoZero

Does it make your blood boil at all to realize how many things COULD have been done by women if men had not oppressed them for millennia? It sure does for me.

It REALLY boils my blood to realize that I could have been EXTREMELY RICH by now if it haden't been for the invisible unicorn of Hatred that keeps me oppressed with its fairy magic.

But, yeah... you are right.... those poor girls, who were *NEVER* given a chance at power... because of mean old men....


Like Mary the First of England... poor girl was *SO OPPRESSED* by men, that she wound up *RUNNING THE NATION OF ENGLAND*

en.wikipedia.org...

Or perhaps Queen Elisabeth the First... Poor girl never got the CHANCE to live up to her full potential.... what with all that *OPPRESSION OF WOMEN* going on back in the day...

Before Women's Lib gave us "Equality" and all.


And let's not forget Catherine the Great (Catherine II), who.... Poor Girl, could only manage (with all that oppression going on) becoming *EMPRESS OF RUSSIA* until the day she died.


Poor, Poor girls... so oppressed, so downtrodden, so ignored.


(A.K.A. You don't have any idea what you are talking about)

Feminism, while it probably has gone too far should NEVER have been needed. The problem is men over history have squashed a lot of original female thought. How many things did women invent or could have invented or done had someone not turned them off?

OOOOOOOOOOOHHHH!!!!

I love the *WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED* game....

Tell me the answer to your hypothetical question!!!!


Do you know what an Argument From Ignorance is?

en.wikipedia.org...

How about a Negative Proof Fallacy?

en.wikipedia.org...

A victim is a person who finds themselves murdered, kidnapped or raped. THAT is a victim.

You forgot those who live under a tyrannical regime, those who are stolen from, those who are brainwashed, those who are slandered and slighted, etc, etc, etc...


@SaturnFX

with a bit of pun intended, you got to "man up" to the task of being the Man in a relationship.

And what EXACTLY do you mean by "Man Up"?

I want specifics... not more of the same old circular definitions.


And do women also have to "Woman Up" in a relationship?

@atlguy

BTW - here's a tip - your misogyny is showing whenever you refer to adult females as "girls".

Oh the ARROGANCE of your position is so..... Pungent, I can smell it from here...

Is "Girl" really an insult?

*HOW* is that hateful, EXACTLY?

If you think that women seek the "metro sexual" male - you're in the wrong circle of people. My wife's sister and ALL (and I mean every one of them...) of her friends have said that they wish they could find men who do what I do: fix cars, build houses, work on computers, and generally act like a guy. We actually had a good conversation about that. And these women are all earning over $100k - they're strong, educated, independent people.

Well, if they are SO INDEPENDENT, then why are they looking for a MAN?

Relationships are about mutual dependency.... don't you know that?

Are they open to the male of 30 years ago that comes home, plops down on the sofa and asks:

"Where's my dinner?"

Absolutely not. They are looking for an EQUAL partner, but also one that is a man's man.

Explain to me how a "Man's Man" and a Feminine Woman can be Equal.


Because it SEEMS that you are comparing apples to oranges.


@Benevolent Heretic

Can you give an example of what you mean by this? Specifically, what is happening in the media, court systems and societal settings that makes you think that women are the rulers and men are slaves?

www.isteve.com...

www.bsos.umd.edu...

www.census.gov...

It's certainly possible that since women are coming into their own and are no longer just an extension of the man they're with...

Let's take a look at the definition of "Life" shall we?

"In biology, the science of living organisms, life is the condition which distinguishes active organisms from inorganic matter. Living organisms undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations."

So, one is not a complete Life form, if one is incapable of reproducing.

Therefore, BY DEFINITION, women are an extension of men, and vise versa.

@AlreadyGone

I will say this...no matter how independent and strong she may be... at some point, she is gonna need you and need you to be "the man" and you need to man up, too.

And WHAT exactly do you mean by "Man Up"?

And do women Also have to "Woman Up" and what would THAT mean?

I mean... if we are talking equality and all.


@Benevolent Heretic

She'll even out.

Unless she ends up hating men, and turning to lesbianism....

Which is the POINT of the Feminist Movement, by the way.



Yes... it is a form of population control.

I remember when I first learned about how controlled and manipulated women were in the past.

Yeah... Controlled and manipulated women....

WHO MUST REGISTER:
Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service.

www.sss.gov...

Do I need to explain this one further?

Oh, I am? OK..... Fine.



Continued...

-Edrick

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Edrick]

Continued

@Helmkat

Feminism doesn't just set women free, it sets men free as well, now you can be yourself.

You've GOT to be kidding....

Feminism does not "Set Women Free" and this belief is as ludicrous as it is naive.

Feminism teaches women that they *MUST WORK* to be a "Real Woman", and that career is more important than family.

Feminism is not about giving women more options or setting men free...

IT is about CONTROLLING Women's Actions and choices through economics, and Controlling society through increased State access to children.

@Benevolent Heretic

It's just that I want to remind you that there also exists the equal portrayal of stupid, airhead and bitchy women on TV.

Yeah... it's almost like the Media wants us all to be irresponsible, vain, self centered "Sluts" and "Man Whores" doesn't it?

If men, faced with the challenge of intelligent women

Yes, of course.... The SMART women are the ones that blindly follow the Feminist Adgenda like SHEEP, because their emotions are being manipulated like play-dough.

Feminism isn't about men!

And THAT is the dumbest thing I think I have ever read in my entire life.


Who EXACTLY are women complaining that they don't have equal rights or pay with?

WHO are they crying over being OPPRESSED by?


Seriously... Feminism is ALL about men.


@golddustgecko

Blaming the feminist movement for your sexual insecurity is very revealing.

Attacking someones sexuality because they don't agree with your political stance is even MORE revealing.


@aCurious1

Poor boys. Sitting at the top for so long

Sitting on the top of the society that *WE CREATED*, thank you very much.

Now as both husbands and wives have to work for families to survive...

Oh, yeah... doubling the workforce wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with that, now would it?

The history of the world is flush with MALE leaders in government, industry, business, sciences, arts, academia.....and in the home.

Yup, MUST be discrimination.... can't possibly be that *MEN ARE BETTER THAN WOMEN AT THESE ACTIVITIES* because that would be insinsitive to women's sence of entitlement.

Gaining the right to vote.

By Rockefeller's coercion of the media.

Gaining the right to reach management and then executive positions...

By Fiat, as opposed to skill.

After WWII, what did the men do when they returned from war? Boot women from the industrial jobs and sent them back to their kitchens

Yeah, Right... because women absolutley *LOVE* working 40+ hours a week at a dangerous, dirty job, as opposed to sitting at home all day, playing with their children.

and back to the glorified image of woman as sweet vulnerable maidens requiring male protection.

THE MEN WERE FIGHTING TO PROTECT THEM!

IT WAS CALLED WORLD WAR 2

PEOPLE (MEN) DIED BY THE MILLIONS.


Do you have brain damage or something?


Men fight wars TO PROTECT WOMEN for christ sakes.... what part of this is so difficult to comprehend?

Population growth is still a reality, but not even close to what was projected back then. Why? Because of the empowerment of women - from tiny villages to large cities throughout the world. Women making decisions on when to have children and how many to have. Women managing their finances before their husbands pissed it away on drink....

LOL! Women saving the planet, eh?

Not even close.

Try "Birth Control" (A *MALE* invention BTW) as the cause for the slowing of population growth....

And instead of their husbands pissing away the money on drink, now the women have been liberated to be able to piss away their finances on thousands of pairs of shoes and matching prada/guchii bags and other designed crap.

Nice...

"female genital mutilation"

You aren't going there, are you?

Here.... try this one out for size:

If a woman or girl was raped, her rapist would not be prosecuted IF he married his victim.

Oh, Rape, eh?

Lets talk about that one, shall we?




@HulaAnglers

What a joke, I think men have ruined their image through lying,

All men ar liers, eh?

Lets discuss your foolish perspective on the matter, shall we?

greed,

alphadominance.com...

physical abuse, pedophilia,

"More women (56%) than men (42%) are perpetrators of all forms of child maltreatment."
-Centers for Disease Control, Child Maltreatment Abstract data sheet.

(www.cdc.gov...)

rape, rape and more rape,

www.fathermag.com...

porn

You do realize that there are FAR more women porn stars, than male porn stars, right?

and really bad hygiene

en.wikipedia.org...

Something about your post smells.... fishy.

false gods

en.wikipedia.org...

dumb sports

stupid endless wars

en.wikipedia.org...

and trying to rule over everything

Like women have been doing since the dawn of time?

Yeah... JUST like that.

to end up just killing and destroying everything that is pure, natural and beautiful.

Why Whales Were Killed

* Food - Being such large animals, their meat was used as a major source of food that could feed a lot of people over a long period of time. Their meat was also used as food for animals. In 2006 Japan was actually accused of feeding the excess whale meat that they currently have to dogs.
* Oil - The oil found in the blubber was used to make cosmetics, candles, soap, perfume, and lamp oil.
* Clothing - Baleen was used to make clothing such as corsets.
* Bones - Whale bones were used to make furniture and for other building

www.whalesightings.com...

You have had your reign and have shown yourselves to be no big deal

Your no prize hog yourself, dear.


-Edrick

reply to post by peck420


"Men commit more crimes than women. In 2002 male offenders in England and Wales outnumbered female offenders by more than four to one.

In 2000 the peak age of offending was 18 for males and 15 for females. Slightly higher proportions of male than female offenders (59 per cent compared with 56 per cent) were aged 21 and over. People aged 35 and over, particularly women, are much less likely to be found guilty of, or cautioned for, indictable offences.

Men outnumber women in all major crime categories. Between 85 and 95 per cent of offenders found guilty of burglary, robbery, drug offences, criminal damage or violence against the person are male. Although the number of offenders are relatively small, 98 per cent of people found guilty of, or cautioned for, sexual offences are male."

statistics.gov.uk

(I live in the UK)

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Mesdoline]

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Mesdoline]

reply to post by Edrick


What annoys me more about your responce is your complete and utter denial that, in the past, women have been oppressed.
It was only 50 years ago a woman in the UK could NOT have a morgage. Why? because she was female. In a time before that, a woman could NOT own land. If it was passed through the family, her husband automaticly took it under his name. She could not vote and thus, governments catered for men's needs, for example making the laws that forbid women having a morgage! Its not secret that women are still paid less today. You claim its because "Women do less" The fact of the matter is, it depends on the person. There are lazy men, there are lazy women, there are people who just have a drive to work work work. Regardless of sex, everyone should be paid equally, anything different to that is sexist.
What ive listed above is only a few reasons why the feminist movement was NEEDED. Women in the western world are no longer oppressed i agree. But they were and in some parts of the world they still are.
Your making out as if women have had it easy over the past few centurys when the truth is, they have been neglected. Publishers wouldnt even publish books by women because they believed them to be idiots who belonged in the home doing homely things. Take a look at the Bronte sisters, all of them successful writers, but look how long it took them to get published? All because they didnt have a penis?
Parts of the world still use women as a type of property, just as the western world once did. The father walking his daughter down the isle represents the passing of ones property to another, no wonder feminists demonized marrige.
Perhaps you should take another look at history before you start ranting about how women have had it easy.
your entire post is nothing but ignorance to the facts.

"In 2006, 1.42 million offenders were sentenced for criminal offences in England and Wales. The majority of these offenders, 80 per cent, were male and of these 7 per cent were aged
under 18."

"In 2006, males were more likely than females to be found guilty of, or cautioned for, crimes in all major crime categories. Between 82 and 94 per cent of all offenders in England and Wales found guilty of, or cautioned for, violence against the person, criminal damage, drug offences and robbery and burglary were male. Although the number of offenders was relatively small,
97 per cent of those found guilty of, or cautioned for, sexual offences were also male."

statistics.gov.uk

reply to post by Mesdoline


Well, this is interesting.

The Canadian Children's Rights Council gives a different outlook.

Must be different this side of the pond?

Links:
canadiancrc.com... (notice that biological parents are just as likely to kill the child)

canadiancrc.com...

canadiancrc.com...


In fact almost every place I have looked, it is quite clear that there doesn't seem to be much difference between men and women when it comes to aggression or violence.

The only difference is how often each gets reported.

Self edit: Can you email me the studies from the UK, my web provider has .uk sites blocked.

Thanks in advance.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by peck420]

reply to post by Edrick


wooo...angry one aren't you? I said that I am not exactly sure but the point was oppression has existed in the past on women. I cannot fathom how you could deny it happened, I really can't.

FO

Sorry friend we'll just have to disagree. I do enjoy how you started the the entire response in jest like you were going to sweep in here and crush us all with your inspired and magical wit. Well friend your denial has already lost me. It existed before and it still exists now.

Pay Gap

But as I said I do not judge. Pretend it all didn't happen. Put words in my mouth. Deny it all happened and enjoy. I refuse to judge. Perhaps though you should rethink how you approach people though. Not the best start I have ever seen to get a point across.

-Kyo

reply to post by Edrick


Holy crap - you're one angry man...

Yes, referring to women as "girls" is degrading. If a guy were to call me "boy", he'd better be ready to back it up. As for why my sister in-law's friends are single, it is because they are PICKY. Here's a newsflash - there are a LOT of guys out there that are assh*les to women.... though I've got a hunch you kinda already knew that.

A woman that makes 6 figures and is college-educated can also be intimidating to those of lesser constitution (I.E. lacking balls).

[edit on 9-6-2010 by atlguy]

On referring to women as "girls". I, for one, don't mind it at all, but some women do. I don't mind being called woman, lady, girl, female, chick or whatever, as long as the SPIRIT is good. That's what counts for me. Even "bitch" can be used endearingly, believe it or not.

I tend to think that women who are offended by the use of the word girl have some unresolved issues within themselves or are looking for something to be offended about. We ALWAYS want to be thought of as younger than we are, after all.