Officer shown the door at SE Portland cafe

reply to post by mishigas




[edit on 6-6-2010 by projectvxn]

Personally, if I were that officer I'd get word out on the street that that cafe's property is no longer under protection of the police, and as long as no innocents are harmed, it is a 'free zone'.

reply to post by desert

Are you talking about the guy that shot the cop twice before they returned fire and killed him?

I've noticed that whenever there is a police shooting, they always show the victim holding a baby or around their children. Why don't they have a picture of the person holding the gun/knife/etc. that they were told to drop?

I know it's not always the case, but why do families call 911 saying they are scared, police come out, person is drugged or whatever, told to put down the weapon, don't comply, and the person ends up dead? Deal with your own family issues but don't scream about how your family member was murdered when someone in your household placed the 911 call.

The media seems to like to paint a different picture, just depends on the victims. I've seen it done in a case where I was a witness before a grand jury and the real victim got 10 years in jail.

Some cops are good people and do heroic things to serve their communities. Some cops are pigs who abuse their power.

This incident may very well be an insult to the good cops who work hard and put their lives at risk to serve the good of their communities. However, citizens who have been victimized by crooked cops are insulted whenever a police officer is given a hero's welcome or special treatment just because he is wearing a uniform. This coffee shop would not be in the news if police brutality victims were upset because the coffee shop gave free coffee to officers in uniform.

reply to post by projectvxn

What protocol?

I responded to the OP. There are no rules that say I must respond to a person. Please stop derailing an otherwise important conversation with this.

I didn't mean to derail. But I try to follow threads when I read them. There's a reason for the 'Reply To' tag; it is most useful, especially when a post and a reply are on different pages. That's the 'protocol' I was referring to. There's no way for anybody to know it was the OP you were referring to, especially since he hadn't addressed you beforehand.

Back to the topic....

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

Personally, if I were that officer I'd get word out on the street that that cafe's property is no longer under protection of the police, and as long as no innocents are harmed, it is a 'free zone'.

You have to be careful with that tack, although I understand and agree with your sentiment.

I read today that Fred Phelps won a decision. He was sucessfully sued for emotional distress for his usual tactics of protesting at a soldier's funeral. The plaintiff was awarded millions. But a judge overturned the decision and made the plaintiff pay $15K for Phelps' legal fees! Freedom of expression. O'Reilly said he will pay the $15K.

When I saw this thread, I immediately put the cafe owner in the same boat as Phelps. Of course it is the cafe owner's right to choose his customers, but to exclude LE is childish and stupid, imo. I wouldn't care if some bangers pulled a real nasty one on the owner; he deserves it because of his attitude.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Personally, if I were that officer I'd get word out on the street that that cafe's property is no longer under protection of the police, and as long as no innocents are harmed, it is a 'free zone'.

I like this idea a lot.

reply to post by richierich

SO, your opinion of cops is so low that you really believe that they will ILLEGALLY refuse to protect a business because the owner uses his LEGAL authority to decide who he serves?

Why is it legal for the owner to refuse service, but illegal to return the "favor"? If the cop isn't good enough to buy coffee, why should he be asked to put his life on the line for this schmuck?

Cops today are NOT like they used to be. They see us as the enemy, and we should see them as such also.

Speak for yourself. Cops see me as an ally and good citizen; I have no problems communicating with them. Your mileage may vary, and there is probably good reason. I personally am glad that LE is there to handle attitudes like yours.

Maybe they will NOT intimidate, watch and harrass the people there.

I have never seen a cop intimidate or harass simple, innocent people in a restaurant. I wonder why it is that you keep running into so much trouble?

I Think this is great. Sounds like one fed up AMERICAN LIKE ME WITH OUR sytem. A

And yes he does have a right as shop owner to refuse service to anyone he wishes. He must have the same view on police as I do.

I live in the Land of Crooked Cops. Screw them.

Kudo's to the coffee shop owner.

Originally posted by richierich
This cop got his widdle feewings hurt!! The shop is an alternative coffee shop and has gays and hippies and they are sick and tired of being hounded by cops. The cop is a liar. He saya he was just getting a cup of coffee...sure, in that place. He went there no doubt to intimidate the patrons and let them know he is watching them in the area and will not let them associate anywhere safe from the prying eyes of a cop.

Did you think that maybe that cop wanted the hippies and gays to realize that he's a human, too, and that maybe if they were being harrassed by someone, they'd be able to go to him for help? You know, sort of a "public relations" deal?

Originally posted by signal2noise
Did you think that maybe that cop wanted the hippies and gays to realize that he's a human, too, and that maybe if they were being harrassed by someone, they'd be able to go to him for help? You know, sort of a "public relations" deal?

Apparently no. Most people don't want to see it that way. Instead they let their little BS cop-hating bias obscure their common-sense. I say that most of these people deserve to be shot point-blank in the face with a bullet that has the word 'reality' carved into it.

I don't like watching videos.
I assume the cop was not black, otherwise they'd be calling it racial discrimination.

Let me get this straight.
Gay - good
queer - bad? Even though they prance in every parade telling us they're 'queer'. I suppose fag is bad, too?

Funny, I was brought to understand that most businesses want cops to stop by. Why else would they give them everything they want without charge?

I carry a radio and am often mistaken for for plains-clothes and given meals for free. I always correct them.

Originally posted by wookiee
I carry a radio and am often mistaken for for plains-clothes and given meals for free. I always correct them.

Same here. Except I'm a private-security-contractor. They hook me up with free stuff anyways. Even after I say "How much is it?" They say "Don't worry about it."

a thought i had: this coffee shop was obviously a counter-cultural hub, where at least 90% of the regular customers don't like cops...this was probably just a good business decision...you go hang out in coffee shops to feel comfortable, its not like a diner where its about the food...like he said many of his customers are homeless...why would a cop be welcome in such a place...it would be bad business.

Ok, I've browsed through this thread and am at a loss for words. I have been in Law Enforcement for 18 years and not once have I intimidated an innocent person, at least not intentionally.

The owner of said establishment does have the right to refuse service to people, that's a given. Did he do the right thing by tossing the cop out? Dunno I wasn't there and don't have all the details. Was the cop there to intimidate or just have a cup of coffee? Again I don't have all the details, for all I know this guy has a beef against the alternative crowd and wanted to make a point. Then again, maybe he is part of that crowd off duty.

I would like to tell you a true story about what happens when the people think that all cops are bad.

A few years back in the county I work for there was an investigation into an alleged molestation of a 6 year old girl. Cutest thing you ever saw, but she refused to talk to the cops. When the investigating officer asked this innocent little child why she wouldn't talk to her, the little girl said that her mother told her that all cops are just out to arrest little kids and should stay away from them.

A few weeks later this same child was not just molested but actually raped by the man who she had known as an uncle. This could have been avoided if her mother had never said that to her.

Cops are human beings with real emotions, families, friends, hobbies, and all the rest that makes living breathing beings. Sure there are bad ones out there, I've helped take a few off the street personally, but that doesn't make us all bad. It's actually in our best interest to treat people with dignity and respect whenever possible. To do otherwise fuels the hatred of us brought on by the highly publicized idiots that are corrupt. I've saved lives, been injured in the line of duty, kicked, punched, spit on and called names that would make a sailor blush. Why aren't cops like me who aren't corrupt but take this abuse paraded around the media? That's an easy question to answer: it's our job.

I've been offered free meals, free coffee you name it, I've always politely turned it down and paid. Even if the owner insisted, I would leave the cost of the meal on the table as a tip to the server.

LEOs are to be held at a higher standard of behavior than anyone else and I'm all for it. We are the ones who have to stand in court and make our case against someone and if we have no integrity, then all hope is lost and the innocent continue to be abused and the guilty continue to abuse.

To sum up, kudos to the owner for exercising his rights, but I think it was a poor decision based on the information I have seen.

Originally posted by Marked One
Apparently no. Most people don't want to see it that way. Instead they let their little BS cop-hating bias obscure their common-sense. I say that most of these people deserve to be shot point-blank in the face with a bullet that has the word 'reality' carved into it.

I would be happy to take that. The cops, at least here close to the border in this West Texas town, are as corrupt as they get. Paul Harvey once said that my town is the best place to commit a murder and get away with it. Arlin Bynum would agree, were the location of his body even known.

But I am a 6'4", 400lb former all state offensive lineman. In my adult life, no one has picked a fight with me that wasn't drunk and stupid. I am as close to pacifist as it gets, but am known to defend myself with far, far more aggression than needed. My 12 year old son, who is currently not yet hitting puberty (and the growth you have during it) is currently about 6' tall, 290lbs. I feel that for the remainder of my days, I will be protected and will need very, very little police intervention in my life.

These two things really make me see things in a completely different light than the average ATSer. I have been the victim in police interactions. I have seen others being victimized. I have seen it happen in other cities/states. And i interact with other people on a completely different level, due to my size. Add to that, I am a Texan who loves gun rights. LOL

reply to post by Dizzychicken73


As a citizen, let me ask a few questions:

- When interacting with the public, do you smile?

- Do you have at least half as many positive interactions with people as negative? Like, will you pull up and talk to a business owner who is standing outside his business? Just shoot the breeze for a minute? Build rapport?

- Do you say things like "yes sir", and open doors for people? Around here, people will stand around and argue about who will go last (not really, but just about) as we just like to open doors for other people apparently. It is a sign of courtesy.

- In your official capacity, does your force do things like Relay For Life teams, or other community involvement events?

There are other things, but you get the gist. If you can say yes to the above things, then you are exceptional. If not, then you can see why the public is uncomfrotable. We are seeing little girls set on fire to serve a search warrant for a person who was wanted (but not convicted), and peoples dogs shot during SWAT invasions. The police are more and more overstepping the bounds of what the concept of "liberty" can withstand. And people are starting to notice. Ruby Ridge. Waco. There is that video of that cop beating up that skater kid for "not showing respect". And, to top it all off, the audio of the crap being pulled up in NYC, where cops are given their quotas and directives that have more to do with padding city statistics than protecting the public.

You guys are getting bad press because bad things are done behind the badge. It is now up to you to get out and salvage your reputation. Show the public that you are there to serve them. They aren't feeling it right now.

Originally posted by mishigas

No, it was not clear at all.

I figured out it no problem. Am I just smarter than you? I did not see anyone else asking either. Are we all just smarter than you?

And you jumping in here breaks the line of communication that I was trying to establish with him.

That is exactly why I told you to take your personal conversations to the U2U area. This here is a forum and there is a reply button on top of EVERY SINGLE POST. That is how forums work. If you want a private conversation, there is a mechanism for that.

Actually, no. I see this quite often. It is a measure that creates confusion. Maybe by putting it out here in the open, others may benefit from it.

Doubtful as it seems you are the only one confused by it. I see it quite often as well. I do it too. I know that if I hit reply on the top page and simply address clearly the things stated in the OP, then it will be understood by my target audience - the OP.

You are jumping into the line of communication set up between projectvxn and the OP. If you are so worried about linear dialogues then would it not make sense to not worry about it if you do not understand it? It was not to you and that was pretty clear. Seems maybe you got a little hypocrite in your point.

It didn't and doesn't work that way in this, or most cases.

then you have an issue. Let me help you out.

The OP, Marked One posted the following poem

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me and by that time no one was left to speak up." -Pastor Martin Niemöller. (1892–1984)

Then projectvxn posted

Your comparison quotation is so far out of context it hurts. Remember that it was secret police and other authorities that came for the communists, Jews and many, many others.

Hmmmm....who said anything about people coming for communists, Jews and others? Where did I read something like that????? Let me think.

Honestly, you can tell me you do not see the reference being made? Honestly?

Not standard practice, especially when several pages have gone by.

It isn't? Well that sure is interesting considering you just said

Actually, no. I see this quite often.

Um...which is it?

It didn't help one bit. It inserted the risk of him not answering since he may think you cleared things up, when it's clear that you have no clue on the issue.

Hmmm. Gosh I am really sorry. Here I am, butting in and posting where I do not belong, interrupting your private conversation with a mod to tell him how better to post just for you because you did not understand what he posted to someone else. Got it.


Look. U2Us are for this and all your whining is exactly what. Want a reply, send a private message. Want to tell a mod how to post, send a private message. Want to post in a thread and not even touch the topic but get upset if anyone replies to you, then send a private message instead. This all seems pretty basic.

Now obviously I do have a clue on the issue because I was able to both...

Understand the context so clearly laid out before me

and

post on topic.

You managed neither. Do you have anything to add to this thread or are you just looking to have a private chat with someone about something they said to someone else?

The topic of the thread is this cop being asked to leave the restaurant, not what you believe is your made up protocol that never happens because what I said was standard and you said was not happens all the time.

I really hope this helps.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


As projectvxn said...

"Please stop derailing an otherwise important conversation with this."