The Dishonesty & Danger Inherent In The seeingUFOsPA Hoax

reply to post by One Step Beyond...


Honestly, you are right there, and this applies not to just her, but I would say almost 50% of the people who inhabit these forums. Some days I just laugh at the absurdity of peoples claims. Others times I get half way down a page and just close the site off my browser, because I realise I am just wasting my time.
On the flip side there is a heap of great people here, and some great topics, and a great source of interesting reading.

reply to post by TheWretched


I could not have said it better myself. Some days I can read posts and response for an hour and on, other days I get 2-6 posts down a topic and I just close the browser.

Wouldn't it be fairer to say that Alison is delusional, rather than a hoaxer? In order to hoax something, one must alter or create the content of what is being shown.

Fact: Alison Kruse's footage is visually consistent with that of FAA airplanes.

Fact: Alison Kruse thinks she's seeing alien craft.

Fact: Alison Kruse rejects and attacks those who do not agree with her findings.

Now there's another side to this debate which many of Kruse's critics may find hard to swallow:

Many of the videos/posts contesting her footage while factual, are peppered with personal jabs, and insults. If this path hadn't been taken, it is very likely Alison, her YouTube channel, and following would be nominal by now. The exchanged insults between Kruse and her critics both on ATS and on YouTube are the draw now, NOT the footage.

This where many of Alison's detractors have failed. Why? Because they have stooped to her level. They distracted attention away from the core of the issue, knowing full well Alison would bite. Now it's just a show, isn't it?

When analyzing and critiquing a case, it is best keep things factual and leave the emotions out of it. Why? Because it's harder to counter an argument with only facts.

Read some of Doomsday Rex's posts for reference. He makes truly impressive arguments.











[edit on 10-6-2010 by NightVision]

I understand where you are coming from but the road to the truth is a dirty one. Who says we can not fight fire with fire along the way.


LET THY BIDDING BE DONE AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY!


In the end the truth will remain.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by SeeingUFOzPA]

Originally posted by SeeingUFOzPA
I understand where you are coming from but the road to the truth is a dirty one. Who says we can not fight fire with fire along the way.

I have no problem with you making your rebuttal videos entertaining. I find them utterly awesome, but I cannot deny that the focus has now shifted to 51% entertainment.

Well night Vision you are right , i myself have got pretty nasty with this woman and not without being provoked. That is what makes us earthlings


Probably because of the damage she has done to UFOLigy and my strong beliefs in the phenomena. In her delusional rants she accused me of being a hoaxer from my UFO accounts, i guess no big deal since i do not have proof but i am not ramming it down anyone's throat either or the scientific community. So i guess there is a personal element to this after all. However with out the mudslinging it would make for less entertaining videos and we all know how hard it is to keep some folks attention without a little humor. Thing is what has been said about Alison's character is dead on and paints a picture of what she is.

Delusional

I guess she did not hang any lights , or Chinese lanterns but by definition it is actually is a hoax by intent even though her delusions accommodate it. This is why she knows better , she only films at night. In an email she admitted some of what she claims is misidentified but then she goes on to state some of it isn't? So there she is minimizing the situation. After this admittance and MUFON's finding wouldnt it be safe to say they ALL are man made?

definition of hoax
en.wikipedia.org...

A hoax is a deliberate attempt to deceive or trick people into believing or accepting something which the hoaxer (the person or group creating the hoax) knows is false.

It is possible to perpetrate a hoax by making only true statements using unfamiliar wording or context, such as in the Dihydrogen monoxide hoax. Many hoaxes are motivated by a desire to satirize or educate by exposing the credulity of the public and the media or the absurdity of the target.[1] For instance, the hoaxes of James Randi poked fun at believers in the paranormal and alternative medicine. The hoaxes of Alan Abel, Chris Morris, and others satirize people's willingness to believe the media.[1] Political hoaxes are sometimes motivated by the desire to ridicule or besmirch opposing politicians or political institutions, often before elections.



email from Alison

I admit I misidentified a few, but when the proof (on radar & matching the actual plane's pic to object's lights--sent to me by other) I pulled that video & made it private (the one that contained it). So, I no longer will even post something already in the air (unless the radar online is clear for 100 miles) and claim ufo absolute.... But the ones I SEE morphing from plasma ball I guarantee you are not.




Yet she still posts videos of planes and choppers






In my opinion the reason she still has a few left in her fan base still is due to the fact these people are just as delusional. Like the youtube users account i posted a page back as an example. He believes EVERY conspiracy to be true. These types will "just take her word for it" and are spoon fed more paranoia and madness to feel a sense of belonging. Or like Z said "crazy loves crazy'" and everything else that comes with it. She will always have some nutters left over. But many have defected from her channel to the side of truth.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

May I congratulate you for shutting down any further investigation into the Allison cruse case...

I have never seen such tight work on shutting down all possibilities for any further investigation in a case like this.. Unbelievable..

Great work..!!!


I cannot comment on this thread -
Amazingly..!! God job..!

Just got this email from Jose Escamilla

I thought he should have a fair chance to look in to Alisons Hoax


Jose Escamilla June 10 at 6:25am
Your message was the first time I heard about this. I am removing her clips from the film. I licensed clips from quite a few sources for a montage at the opening of the remake. I had inserted 11 seconds of her footage. I started reading some of the comments and it looks like I'm under fire again because I mentioned her on Coast to Coast AM. The # storm never ceases, so now I'm allegedly perpetuating her hoax as if I was in on it. Everyone there at ATS thinks I got banned for hoaxing the Rods. Not true at all. Springer and the owners lied to all ATS members about why I was banned. SO anyway, thanks for the heads up. If you are in LA during the night of the premiere hopefully will see you there. That night mainstream Hollywood and the Press will get a taste of UFO Disclosure. Lots of celebs confirming to be there. JE


another email



Jose Escamilla June 10 at 5:12am
Holy #e! I licensed footage from her for my remake of UFO-TGSED (two or three clips months ago). I'll remove them and replace them with other footage I licensed from other sources. I haven't had time to look at the ATS stuff and will do that sometime next week. I am currently concentrating on getting my movie premiere at Grauman's Chinese Theater funded. If you're in LA your welcome to attend. JE

theUFOmovie.com...









Well that is a load off my back. Good to know Alison will not see her Hoax promoted in his next film

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

reply to post by NightVision


I think you are 100% correct, NightVision. and think that is more in line, rather than just a Hoaxer. Now, if she was out launching Chinese lanterns, filming them and calling them UFOs....that would be hoaxing. But she is just passionate about believing what she is filming is UFOs....to the extent that she will not accept anything that contradicts that.

So, not so much a hoaxer as just delusional.

As long as her delusions do not harm innocents...

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


Good work, Unknown. At least Jose has the common sense to look objectively into this case. I'm surprised you heard back from him. I personally have not looked into why he was banned here at ATS. I'm sure both sides will have separate versions of the 'truth'.

I absolutely think you guys are being way to irrational for my taste..



You wont look at this video at all...
You cannot see the sparks around it...

You guys are to far out...
If this was years back, I would have let myself get banned over people like you...



cheers anyway -
Good work dumping this...

Ram that 'sparking beauty" was debunked pages ago with a debunking video

I hope you are being sarcastic

Yes he may have gotten the shaft like John Lear. So maybe Jose was treated unfairly i do not know either. The thought did occur he was not aware of Alisons hoax and or Delusions. Or the MUFON case report ect. But this is a huge relief to know and to incorporate her footage with other potential legitimate footage would compromise the authenticity of his work. As well as any other UFO footage would fall in to question. He seems to have a passion for this subject so i appreciate that. Another victory is the name of truth.





[edit on 10-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
Ram that 'sparking beauty" was debunked pages ago with a debunking video

I hope you are being sarcastic

lol yourself...




this one does the same thing... But that would be impossible for you people to see, wouldn't it?
You better call the HQ...

j/k

Clouds? yea right..

reply to post by Ram


Having a little bit of trouble following your line of "thinkking", here....Ram.

Can you help?

Here is what youysaid, about the YT video, uploaded and posted there, that you linked into the post I'm referring to here:

this one does the same thing... But that would be impossible for you people to see, wouldn't it?
You better call the HQ...

I really, really hate to burst your buble...IF you are a "fan" of Alison the Orb Queen...but---you aren't taking THAT video seriously, are you? Tell me you're just joking?

(Sarcasm doesn't always convey well, in an Internet forum..so I am asking...)

AFTER WATCHING, I can say with 100% confidence, and accuracy, it is AN AIRPLANE!!!

(And, for any 'lurkers' or casual readers, go watch again...if you didn't catch on the first time...)

OK..watching again? Good...

Start of video....those flashing white lights?? Those are called STROBE LGHTS. They are installed normally on the wingtips. The patterns, the style of flash pattern, will vary between different airplane types.

THAT airplane (and I am, of course, unable to tell what kind it is) had the distinctive pattern you saw...one wing, flash-flash-flash, then the other, flash-flash-flash in rapid succession. Alternating.

Generally, when I see apattern like that I immediately think "Business Jet".

Because most commercial passenger jets flash BOTH wingtips in unison.

NOW, the other bit...a few seconds in?? LANDING LIGHTS. These are the lights that are almost always mounted somewhere on the wings. Think of them in the same way as you would the HEADLIGHTS of your car. Because, THAT is their function, primarily. To light up the 'road' (runway) for takeoffs and landings.

It is, however, customary and prudent to turn them on IN FLIGHT as well, as a visual aid to OTHER airplanes. They increase the visibility of YOU to others around you. We even use them in DAYTIME!!! In the airline business, the place we turn them on/off is usually 10,000 feet, sometimes 18,000. SOME jets have lights that retract (like a Corvette, say) so we don't turn them on until lower, and at slower airspeeds...

Alison is seeing airplanes, pure and simple. End of story.

That's why everyone s at her. BUT, we also :shk: at here, because she's dangerous.

@ RAM

Clouds? NO an Air Plane ? YES


Might I suggest you read through this thread patiently first before you post more HOAX footage of airplanes



[edit on 10-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

Dear weed killer..

Obviously you did not see it...
The splat stuff in-front of the Air-plane headlights. The lights that fade out as if they lost power...Do you compute?

No - You cant find the word splat-stuff in the dictionary..

could it be..
Balloons? Airflow? birds? Tear-gas? Rubber balls..? Rain? The ocean?
Bubblegum? Hamburgers..? Or simply the result of an external stun-gun..?

It actually looks like Oil.. blended with water...

- I don't know what that wobble stuff is - end of story!!

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier


Might I suggest you read through this thread patiently first before you post more HOAX footage of airplanes

As you wish - I will leave now...
have fun.-

------------------
HOAX footage of airplanes...
that is a fun sentence...


Ram Signing out
Extensions of a plot - maybe not..

reply to post by Ram


Ram, we love you man but...."Mission Control to Ram, requesting more specific data. Transmission interference...."

Do we have a problem, Houston?

@ RAM

It is an AIR PLANE!


This is what a AIR PLANE looks like on the ground before takeoff.

Originally posted by NightVision

Do we have a problem, Houston?

Absolutely..

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier

It is an AIR PLANE!


This is what a AIR PLANE looks like on the ground before takeoff.

Wow is that an air-plane?
I thought they where round...

I am writing about the sparks and the wobble stuff. The unknown stuff in front of the headlights...Same stuff as in the sparkling beauty thing-video.. Just dark instead of bright orange..

You do know the difference between darkness and light don't you?

(and I don't mean the lights on the taking off airplane)
Don't care about that - because you debunked the Wing-tip headlights also.. I am aware of that... Good job. btw..

Have teh fun.. and the not...
- God - I miss the old ATS..

hope the new conspiracy chicks will pep it up a bit..
Cu..