I will answer any question regarding meditation or enlightenment/nirvana

reply to post by filosophia


Yes, and you can "die" before you are dead. This is the point.

A few questions...


Where is the soul? Is it trapped / sitting in another plane of existence? Or freely roaming? Can we perceive this other plane beyond our bodies?

Where is our physical body, or the place we call earth? Or does it exist? With no true eyes all we perceive is electrical waves generated by our brains.


Thank you for your time.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


Perhaps it will inspire. Only the individual can will their actions, meaning there is no such thing as a collective will but rather the will of the individual. When I first started to meditate I realized the difference between the collective consciousness which influences you to do certain things, and the individual will which is based on higher values such as truth, honesty, and above all happiness. Compare this to the society we live in which pushes capitalism and greed, depravity and dishonesty. Meditation has allowed me to take a path that goes contrary to the world, and as a result, I have been much happier.

As a young adult, I had a strong liking towards death and suicide, and contemplated taking my life numerous times. I wasn't socially the person I wanted to be, nor could I attract any girls to like me (don't let the name fool you I'm a guy I'll explain filosophia another time). After meditating and gaining enlightenment I started to have a changing perspective of the world. I started to believe in myself rather than reject myself. My depression instantly disappeared, and for the first time since childhood I was happy again. My relationship with my parents even improved and I felt blessed every day for years. I've heard the advice, from an English professor I highly respected, who said that meditation is but a temporary fix for an otherwise imperfect world, but if that were the case, how could it last years? Compared to an almost entire life time of depression. So anyways, I still had a career to settle out, since if you haven't notice, you can't get a job as a philosopher. Granted, it's not about the money, but can you at least forgive me for not have a 60,000 dollar a year job. Not that I'd like that anyways, too much travel, and TSA, if you follow. But anyways, my meditation has even taken me into a rather dark but interesting hole. You see, since I started to have a positive outlook on life, I wanted to help people I thought were troubled, and one of my friends was, and it was a little hard to take, and no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't reach him. But most people aren't like that, but it's a challenge I'm willing to take. But long story short, I started to get into conspiracy theories from this friend, and entered the world of global politics. Who would have guessed? But anyways, as of right now, I am between meditation and the search for truth, and that's about up to speed.

reply to post by Silenceisall


right, so I'm guessing you have knowledge in this, when did you become or think you were enlightened? When did you start your meditation?

reply to post by doorhand


the soul is not a thing. It's considered immaterial, like a spirit. So it's not trapped anywhere, nor is it in a different plane. All the soul really is is knowledge, but not as an abstract but instead of a transcendental nature. Our eyes perceive the sensory world, but what that world is, is the Soul. What will be a bit confusing is to know that I don't necessarily believe in God but rather an Absolute Reality, kind of like the universe itself, and this Soul is our true nature, each and every human being on earth. IN fact, every being, however, only humans can become aware of this fact. Meditation is simply the practice of realizing the eternal nature of all things. The eternal oneness. To walk around knowing this oneness is to see no evil because everything is everything else in terms of its reality in relationship to the true soul, which is you. This is not the completed journey, but it is a start.

Okay, you asked where is your body and earth. The body is in earth, the earth is in the solar system, and the solar system is the universe itself. But all we know of the universe is perceived by our minds. Meaning the true essence of reality can not be known by us. However, as our spiritual ancestors profess, this reality can be known through self-realization in meditation. This theory I am speaking of essentially equates the individual's own soul as identical to the supreme soul, on condition that the individual is really not a human at all but rather the essence of that knowledge. So for all intense purposes, since that is only possible in theory, to understand the higher reality is an evolutionary step for human beings.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by filosophia]

[edit on 3-6-2010 by filosophia]

reply to post by Silenceisall


You can only metaphorically die before you are dead, unless you die and then come back to life. To die is simply the detachment from body, and the karma which is the effect of the life of the body forms a new life, by which the being created toils to free themselves from samsara. If he can achieve perfect knowledge of his soul, he can break the chains of the body and when he dies his karma is pure and he achieves no more rebecoming. So goes the teachings of the Buddha. They are open to interpretation but not necessarily to readjustment. I am not personally ready for paranirvana, nor was the Buddha for forty years while he taught, so just take that for consideration.

Thanks for your reply, its going to take some re-reading before i can understand this in its entirety, but im struggling with the concept of oneness... i assume we each personally have a soul, but is this soul part of many individual souls? Also the earth/solar system/universe is this a part of our collective souls? is this oneness?

thanks.

reply to post by filosophia


The road to discovery only has one path for the traveler.

I do think it is important that you inspire, but each person does need to follow a path, so to speak, on thier own enlightenment.

As for your name, yes there are a lot of things to read, that will also help you find, Sophia. For anyone that is interested, here is a link for the Sophia Pistis.www.gnosis.org...

edit to fix link





[edit on 3-6-2010 by Blanca Rose]

reply to post by doorhand


There is a bit of a misconception about the soul. Religions normally speak of God creating many souls (in which you are one of many souls). However, since there is only one reality, there can be only one soul. If there are multiple universes, or multiple souls, it would be impossible to determine how many within an immaterial realm. Material things can be counted, but immaterial things, like souls, can not be counted. So because of this, it the immaterial realm is beyond our comprehension. But furthermore, that realm must be unified with itself, meaning it is just one. So if we have a soul, or think of soul, our mind reconnects to the idea of that Supreme Soul, and if we can lift ourselves even further and become that thought, we can slowly begin to evolve towards that Soul.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


The conventional wisdom is: the teacher can only point the way, the student must journey on their own.

If you have achieved Nirvana or Transcendence, if you have conquered the physical domain, how did you manage to find yourself entrapped once again?

Was this a choice?

Must you be willfully ignorant of your enlightenment?

I am told once one has reached such a point they can either abide in Nirvana or descend for an earthly role, like a certain Hindu parable.

Is there a Western equivalent to meditation that isn't simply sitting on your ass and being idle?

What is the universal purpose of enlightenment?


Much thanks for your time.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by AProphet1233]

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by Blanca Rose

 

The conventional wisdom is: the teacher can only point the way, the student must journey on their own.

Well. yeah, that is what I said in a nutshell. You can't really enlighten anyone, at all, unless they are on the road. If and when that happens, you can only point out directions.

First a person has to discover the path or the road.

reply to post by AProphet1233


Nothing can be the Absolute Reality, since it is a state and beyond being. The reason I find myself trapped once again as a human is because I was born that way. Nor can I remember past lives, so I guess this was my first life being exposed to the Dharma, and realistically the first generation in a long time historically from the West, thanks for the most part to the internet, since the literature is lacking.

An avatar is a Hindu god that returns to life as a human in order to impart wisdom onto followers.

Meditation in action is being able to accomplish routine activities while also contemplating the Truth, nirvana, etc. That can be done at any time and makes mundane jobs more enjoyable. But sitting on the ground meditation is a more powerful concentrated activity.

The universal goal of meditation is to become conscious of your consciousness.

reply to post by Blanca Rose


I agree, it is as you say, but I won't stop trying to point out the way. Some Buddhists believe in paranirvana, absolute transcendence, others believe in waiting until all beings reach nirvana. While I am not hardcore in that direction I think it exists somewhat in all of us.

I have just started a course on meditation and find it helpful. Will it help me find a clear direction for the rest of my life? I am quite old (57) and want to make the best of what life is left to me.

reply to post by Jax11


I think it's at least worth looking into. I don't recommend seeking too much professional help, just try to teach yourself, if you like it, then pursue it. I do however recommend certain books:

Upanishads
Bhagavad Gita
Plotinus
Consolation of Philosophy
Buddhism
Autobiography of a Yogi

It helps to have some knowledge of the mind and meditation before embarking on the journey, either way it is an interesting read if you don't get too much into it. Meditation is 100 percent free and all it takes is your will which is unlimited. You can even learn to meditate while doing things like gardening or cleaning.

reply to post by filosophia


Well then, that makes you bohdissatva:



www.essortment.com...

reply to post by filosophia


Thank you. I have a copy of Bhagavad Gita somewhere, so will reread it, and check out the other books also.

Thank you for bringing Meditation and opening the discussion on Buddhism on the boards, this is always good.

However as a fellow practitioner with a very limited amount of experience, I certainly would not call myself enlightened, I feel I must point out (lol) a few things about the true nature of Enlightenment and mind, so that others especially those first looking into this, may have a balanced view, and also to correct any discrepancies between anything stated and what the actual Buddha and other Buddhist masters have actually taught.

By the way, what stage or level of enlightenment would you say that you have obtained?

Are you in Nirvana now?

What is the difference between Nirvana and Samsara?

Originally posted by filosophia
I'm doing this because I'm BORED!

This confuses me if you are enlightened, or at a high state. You want to teach and discuss Buddhism because you are Bored?

Not to benefit and help other beings?

Is your mind therefore like a monkey at the moment locked in an house, and has to go to a window and look outside, or run around the house unable to be perfectly content to just be?

The whole point of meditation is to find the center of your consciousness

Mind has a center?

Is your consciousness separate from mind, separate from all, it has a position?

Taste?

Colour?

Smell?

What is it actually about your mind that is fixed, unchanging, not moving or truly separate?

After that, meditation is really about breaking free of your physical consciousness and raising upwards in your mind until you reach the point where your mind becomes engulfed in light or "enlightened" and it feels as if you go out of your body into the realm of your mind

In fact as one recent Lama/Yogi with over 35 years of being an Monk Teacher who is very well regarded said in a teaching whilst I was there, this is to be avoided, that:

Some people think that when they feel like they are about to fly or float, or their mind goes of into space this is meditation, it is not, it is just another projection fantasy imagination

He was teaching specifically on mindfulness.

By turning your mind away from your body and towards your soul

You/we have souls? and they are separate from the Mind?

Have you read Buddha’s teachings on No Atman?

Subjugation of aggregates means the breaking free of all fetters, no longer having attachment

Isn’t the actual practise you describe the Mixing of Emptiness with Compassion?

This is very different to how you describe it.

Infact even though non attachment is very important, it is also very very important to also have this merging of Emptiness and Compassion otherwise, and this is why I often caution many on here to take things slowly and ignore New Age Gurus etc, and quick Fix's or Kundalini without an Teacher, because unless both are approached and integrated slowly and at the capability of the student Nihilism then Ensues or madness.

This is well written about in all the scriptures and teachings for thousand of years.

The correct approach is firstly to just increase concentration and start to get a lasso as such on the mind to have control of it from jumping from one thing to another. Everyone should do this for a long time as a grounding practise first.

Non Attachment a part of emptiness (in the very basic sense) is dangerous as it leads to us not caring for those around us. Why Compassion should be practised in the beginning stages with Concentration. Many years before the higher levels are approached. I honestly have seen the effects of Emptiness taken to quickly on by some and the distress and mental problems it can cause.

Caution to all here, Concentration, Compassion are fine unless you want to be a yogi or monk. Then you need a face to face teacher.

Using compassion properly non attachment will arise anyhow in relation to self clinging and attachment. otherwise we also loose attachment to the needs of others which should never be abandoned.

Enlightenment is equal to subjugation, as such in Buddhism there is no thing which is a Self

Self and Ego are very different things.

The most enlightened beings are very humble indeed, as they have subjugated the Ego, or rather taken on Emptiness properly, and also Compassion for others puts this in balance. But also in addition these very enlightened beings also have the most Powerful and Strong personalities I have ever known.

This though is because they can see the Self for what it truly is, act naturally without fear and greed, anger, envy etc from that position of self with compassion for others their main priority and goal.

Again As I mentioned above it is well written about the dangers of Nihilism which is NOT the goal of Buddhism, but to reveal the true nature of Self/Mind without the Cankers of Lust, Anger, Hatred, Greed etc.

To eliminate suffering is the main goal of Buddhism.

Which paradoxically cannot be accomplished ourselves that is enlightenment fully until we have the desire to that for others before ourselves.

Again the mixing of Emptiness and Compassion, like Yin and Yang.

practice meditation. All you have to do is sit on the ground

This is true and one type, however the Buddha as I am sure you know first practised and taught Walking meditation to allow mindfulness to develop.

Any thing can be a state of mediation. However you are right the usual way is to try and make the state of mind found in sitting mediation longer and longer and then to start to spread into every day actions. Until your mind is always one pointed not affected by the emotions except compassion.

and try and push your thoughts to the tip of your head. Try and open up the chakra at the top of your head, just feel what it feels like. Observe yourself, try and analyze what it is you are experiencing.

Again this is totally different to most of the advice I have received, from Recognised Reincarnations of Lamas and Teachers etc. And also personal experiences.

Don’t Push or pull and thoughts, you are right though just observe, no judgement, let them go, the aim is to not to identify with your thoughts. Space exists with them which is a place to meet your self eventually.

If people want to physical Chakra work or Body Yoga that is cool, but also this should be done under the guidance of a teacher. Leaving Chakras open can be dangerous non electricians should not rewire houses whilst the power is still on!

which is what meditation is all about: trying to envision the soul

I totally disagree.

So does all of Buddha’s Teachings, again I say have you read Buddha’s Teachings on No or Non Atman please do sharpish.

which is the goal of meditation: realizing your true nature.

Well that is 100% correct.

Basically the way to do it is to concentrate on what you are seeing with your eyes, and then shift that vision away from the object towards the mind itself

In subject Object meditation it is known and taught as the exact opposite of this actually.

Once concentration builds over usually many years of practise, your awareness can rest single pointedly on the object of meditation, not scattered the whole awareness is there, like but also different when we gaze at someone we love, our concentration/awareness and mind seem to be focused totally on that object, we are there in the Now awake and alert and appreciative.

There is known in this aspect of subject/object both "With Seed" and "without Seed" experiences as our practise deepens.

At first we may become very focused having lots of energy and awareness on the object, but there is still duality, an subject and object "this" and "that" etc, this is known as "with seed".

However if we eventually and this takes a long time of practise, reach a point where we merge with the object as such of focus concentration, where we merge with it, where all sense of separate self is lost.

This is "without seed". The seed being the start of the mind or awareness as separate reaching out to the point of concentration.

There are within this level then further divisions etc.

Enlightenment is still far from this point when "Without Seed", and total mindfulness of not one Object like a candle flame, breath, crucifix, image, whatever the point of concentration but of the totality of the entire experience, everything in the universe is experienced "without seed" total merging and concentration is found in an awakeness of everything around us without the obscuration of ego "this/That" labels terms etc.

This is why even though Subject Object meditation is very good and should be practised, and lays the foundations of a real expert it is just the beginning, why Mindfulness, just watching without pushing/pulling judging is the eventual destination, Mindfulness leads to "without seed" of our entire experience. And therefore the entire universe!

This is well written about for anyone interested in the Raja or King Yoga commentaries esp the first one written. It is one of the steps or approaching of mastery of the Raja Yoga totality, but not the end (without seed on say an image) I think from memory but could be wrong it is Step 5 or level 5 of the eight steps to raja.

Without seed and mindfulness of all not just merging with one thing comes later and is the goal.

Any Questions OP?

Kind Regards,

Elf



[edit on 3-6-2010 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by Blanca Rose


maybe not the world's greatest but yes at least trying, attempting to teach what I learned. For others but also for myself, since it helps me along as well. I believe it is the only way towards true world peace. It is 100 percent spontaneous and requires nothing more than the conscious observance of your own consciousness. I also believe it helps in understanding things in life, as meditation helps to break down the different layers of reality. While it is not for everyone, if only a few learn the true way it can have a tremendous impact upon the world.