Arizona has done the nation a favor.

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
the governor implemented the fixes in wording and so forth to satisfy all the racists out there calling racism so now you truely have no arguement. GOOD FOR ARIZONA!!

Fixes? Why would there need to be any fixes? I have been here since before these "fixes" and all you folks defending this bill kept saying it did not have this racist flaw in it to begin with...

so...

what had to be fixed?

Originally posted by Iamrealistic
This isn't about anger. It's about the blatant racial profiling that the state of Arizona has made legal. Requiring someone who appears to be an illegal immigrant to be prepared to show identification is a blatant attempt to profile hispanics in the area. It's a disgrace to the United States. Over 230 years of existence and controversies over race still mark society...it's a shame.

Constitutional Law regarding immigrants clearly states that those here from foreign lands must carry their papers on them at all times, it does not segregate mexicans from canadians and so on.

It is not an attempt to "profile" anyone. It is holding them accountable to our laws for being here.

Originally posted by Evisscerator
Constitutional Law regarding immigrants clearly states that those here from foreign lands must carry their papers on them at all times, it does not segregate mexicans from canadians and so on.

It is not an attempt to "profile" anyone. It is holding them accountable to our laws for being here.

What is in place to stop them from asking a legal US citizen for his papers and detaining him for not having them since all legla US citizens are NOT required to carry "their papers" on them at all times?


I am just curious why people think that this is going to magically only apply to illegal immigrants.

Ted Nugent, rock-n-roller, Texan and friend of everthing decent and good, wrote about Arizona law. Read the article here:

www.washingtontimes.com...

His philosophy is full of common sense.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

What is in place to stop them from asking a legal US citizen for his papers and detaining him for not having them since all legla US citizens are NOT required to carry "their papers" on them at all times?

I am just curious why people think that this is going to magically only apply to illegal immigrants.

Your ignorance of Constitutional Law is obvious. US Citizens have their papers on them (drivers license, social security card, bank cards, other forms of ID).

An illegal won't have any of these. Get real. If a cop stops me and asks me for my proof of insurance and registration, I have it to provide to him. He also gets my drivers license which proves I am a Texan, an American and have the right to be here.

Example !
----------

John: ( driving peacefully, made no traffic violations, heard a Gestapo's siren and flashing lited car signalling him to pull over.)

Gestapo: Get out of the car with your hands up!

John: (like an honest citizen, he cooperates, open the door and hands up, but his left hand reaches in to takes out his citizenship doc.)

Gestapo: STOP RIGHT THERE! DONT MOVE! PUT YOUR HANDS UP!!!

John: (shakened, he raised up both hands, and did nothing as one Gestapo officer points his gun at him, while another searches his car, his personal belongings, strewing everything askunder.)

Gestapo: What is this document? Why are you writing a letter to complain about the Mayor/Senator/Governor/ Police/ etc? Please follow me back to the station.

John: Sir, I am in a rush, I need to go to work. I am a citizen, I have a right......

Gestapo: SHUT THE HELL UP!!! DO AS I SAY!!!

-----------------------------


Example 2
------------

2. John: ( walking on the street merrily, saw a Gestapo officer stop him and asked for papers) I forgot to bring them today sir, but as you can see, I am white, and Red Sox is gonna win the world series!

Gestapo: Shut up. a) follow me back to the statio
b) I can let you go, but times are bad and my salary is low......

--------------------------------------------


Example 3
---------

John: ( enjoying a good sleep at 4.30am, was jerked out his bed by Gestapo officers crashing through his door)

Gestapo: HANDS UP!! We suspect you of a) being an illegal alien
b)hiding aliens in your house

John: Do you have a court warrant to break through my door?!

Gestapo: No longer necessary, thanks to VolksArizona. Search his home, boys!!!!


These are but the more gentle situations of the new Nazi law upon an ordinary citizen. I leave the more extreme and chilling life threatening ones to you. It had happened before in other nations. There will be nothing you can do once pax ReichArizona becomes law of the land

Sieg Heil VolksArizona!!!

reply to post by K J Gunderson

What is in place to stop them from asking a legal US citizen for his papers and detaining him for not having them since all legla US citizens are NOT required to carry "their papers" on them at all times?

Nothing. Nothing at all. And it is inevitable that some citizens will be stopped on occasion. But it should only affect you once, since after that, you will know what papers keep you moving on down the road.

There are countries on earth were you can have your passport and other papers on you and still be thrown into jail on a whim. We are not one of them, nor is this law a step in that direction.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Example 3
---------

John: ( enjoying a good sleep at 4.30am, was jerked out his bed by Gestapo officers crashing through his door)

Gestapo: HANDS UP!! We suspect you of a) being an illegal alien

Judge: Bailiff, remove the shackles from this man. Sir, you are free to go. Case dismissed.

Judge (turning to arresting officers): Who trained you in this new law? Yours was a clear mis-application of it. For the 1,000th time, you cannot stop an individual on suspicion of being an illegal alien. Now get outta here, you knuckleheads!






[edit on 2-5-2010 by mishigas]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

This is the first step towards a national ID card. How so many people can't see that is beyond me.

There's nothing wrong with a National ID Card. I'm an American, damn proud of it. I'll gladly carry a credit card sized piece of plastic that says so.

Progressivist are a curse on society. Siding with criminals and against America is a favorite pastime .. and it's hilarious it's done on the pretext of "protecting" people from the massive government you guys built.. but it serves mega corporations more than the people you claim to protect.

It is so obvious a mason would say this. SECRET SOCIETIES ARE THE PROBLEM.

Why are there secret societies? What is the need to keep secrets? Do you "believe" you are superior, or inferior? Lame if you ask me. The only good masons are dead masons in my opinion.

Arizona has committed a tresonous act period. This was all brought about by TPTB forcing mexicans out of work so they WOULD have to cross the border to find work to support their families. We all know the CIA supplies the drugs for them to traffic. We just need to get rid of those alphabet agencies that ruin the world.

reply to post by RedskinWally


A phone call to prove who they are would probably be enough.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Seeker - You are what's wrong in this debate. We are either with your or we are Nazis. We either are either with or we believe that killing 6 Million Jews is a good thing. That sort of demonization truly shows that you are seeking the truth.

Now that you are so concerned with human rights and protecting our freedoms we should now welcome you in the ranks of those that support the following:

- Freedom to bear arms - No Gestapo tactics to take away guns from law abiding citizens.

- Reversal of the healthcare bill - No need for Gestapo tactics to force 1/6th of the economy to be under government guidance and control.

- No National ID Card - the ulitmate Gestapo tactic.

- No Fariness Doctrine - No Gestapo tactics to mandate that liberal ideas get forced onto the airways to compete against conservative ideas.

Can we welcome you into the ranks of supporting the above?

Look guys, Everyone is concerned about the immigrant issue. But it is multi-faceted and what Nazi Arizona had done is to insidiously and cunningly insert a law to be followed by other states that will Nazify USA slowly.

The illegal immigrant issue is 4 sided and need 4 sided solutions, no one broad sweep that is supposed to solve it all.

1. Boder entry prevention
2. What to do with illegal immigrants already here.
3. Drug problem
4. Suspected immigrants

1. Border entry prevention. The federal govt has the resources to do so and must do now espacially as this crisis had made even americans now living in tents. It is a human right nitemare to the once prosperous US.


2. For the illegal immigrants already here - existing human rights compassion should be applied. US is not a nation of animals, and even though we may be poor now, there is no right for us to behave any lesser to another human.


There are 14 americans to every 1 illegal immigrant. Just one spoonful of grit from each of us will feed that illegal immigrant quick and easy without any of us noticing that we go hungry.


3. Drug problem:- drug problems is not only related to the borders north and south. Our ports and airports are also inflitrated. It takes more than just stopping someone on the street to stop drug trafficking. Anyone who thinks checking ID is enough is living in a pipe dream.


4. Suspected Immigrants:- To stop them is to find the root of the problem, and the root lies with the employers. The illegal immigrant cannot survive on welfare forever, nor is welfare given forever.

At some point, it ends and they have to find jobs to survive. The target is not innocent civilians in the street, but the people who employ them.


But what Nazi Arizona had done was to either stupidly or intentionally introduce a repressive Nazi style law into the people's consciousness as a solution.

What is going on here? Is Jan Brewer a closet Nazi set to revive the 4th Reich and nazify the whole of USA? We must watch these developements and his team carefully.

reply to post by NumberNone


Wrong or right is not determined by me. It is determined by the reader.

This topic is about the nazi arizona repressive law, and i prefer to keep to topic. For other issues, i would be forthright and say what I mean, as is my right guaranteed under the 1st amendment on other thread that you post if i have the time or interest to do so.

And do remember, I alone am not 'THE PEOPLE'. I can only present my viewpoint, but at the end of the day, it is the collective that decides the course and direction of the nation, not just me alone, but you, your family, your relatives, friends and mine.

I hope my answer is direct, straightforward enough for you. Thanks for your questions.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

4. Suspected Immigrants:- To stop them is to find the root of the problem, and the root lies with the employers. The illegal immigrant cannot survive on welfare forever, nor is welfare given forever.

This is utter nonsense. The root of illegal immigration are the laws that distinguish between legal and illegal immigration and your anti-business vitriol is inappropriate in a thread about the causes and answers to immigration. Employers have not been tasked by Constitution to protect our borders, nor have they agreed to take on any such responsibility. How disingenuous of you to call Arizona Nazi's while you clearly advocate criminalizing employers for simply being employers.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Nonsense?

So it is legal to hire an illegal immigrant?

And I have not even ask you about the wages, the hours, the union representation, their medical aid, their insurances, the human safety net aspects, etc.

Whose the one talking nonsense now?

And it is wrong for citizens to plead with society to feed these illegal immigrants out of human compassion while they are awaiting for deportation or natuaralization?

And it is wrong to question a law that STRANGELY resembles that of Gestao era tactics when it is not necessary for one? A meat cleaver to cut broccoli?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Understand what you are saying but I do not feel that in a debate about what to do with illegal immigrants calling the state of AZ and all the people in it Nazis (the bill is supported by 70% of the people) is anything but inflamatory. The opponents are so concerned about inflaming passions by labels that they are no longer 'illegal immigrants'...they are 'Undocument workers'. Your calling AZ Nazi is no better than calling all immigrants criminals and thieves.

At the end of day you and alll the opponents to the bill understand where the pro-bill people are coming from. You understand the concerns. You are just manipulating the masses to get the public outcry and outcome you desire on this. To do this you are using your inflammatory rhetoric. Don't deny because you make the same arguments about the people behind the tea-party.

So at this point we must circle back to the original comment of this thread that AZ did us a favor. We needed to have this debate. The Average US citizen has no problem with the illegals that are here, we just want to make sure that 10 years from now we don't have this same debate about giving amnesty to another 30 million illegal immigrants. Unfortunately your side does not seem to be interested in honestly engaging in this discussion.

reply to post by NumberNone


1. I do not represent any side. I represent only my personal views, as i see it, without fear or favour, with facts and figures, and am fully responsible for what I say.

2. The People of Arizona may had been ignorant of the facts and consequences of that bill, in their moment of deep concern and manipulated by their seemingly closet Nazi leaders with insidous nazi solutions. Reality must be told.

3. At the end of the day, if they knowingly support such a bill after debate, then they had become Nazis, the very people whom their grandfather had gave their lives to stop.

Repression and repressive bills are not a trait born out by the noble founding fathers who bequeth us the sacred Constitution and country in blood from the generals to the footsoldiers.

Repressive laws are NO favour to the rest of the country, so is Nazification.

4. I am only one person, insignificant and a nobody. But your views and what you do is important after a debate and an awakening.

Sieg heil Arizona!!!!

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

So it is legal to hire an illegal immigrant?

This was not your argument, you asserted the source of illegal immigration was that employers hired them. That is nonsense. Further, it is dubious whether legislation can stand as legal that would criminalize an employer for hiring a person the government that has been mandated with prevention of crossing the border has failed to do. It is tantamount to punishing children for the sins of their parents.

And it is wrong for citizens to plead with society to feed these illegal immigrants out of human compassion while they are awaiting for deportation or natuaralization?

I spoke to one assertion you made so stop pretending to be so self righteous. Do not be so disingenuous.

And it is wrong to question a law that STRANGELY resembles that of Gestao era tactics when it is not necessary for one? A meat cleaver to cut broccoli?

Your disingenuous behavior only exposes you to be the hypocrite you are. You are assuming I am for this legislation in Arizona, but I am demonstrably against it, and have declared in other thread the unconstitutionality of this legislation. Unlike me, however, you are using this legislation to push forth your anti-business vitriol, and this is inappropriate.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Look guys, Everyone is concerned about the immigrant issue. But it is multi-faceted and what Nazi Arizona had done is to insidiously and cunningly insert a law to be followed by other states that will Nazify USA slowly.

The illegal immigrant issue is 4 sided and need 4 sided solutions, no one broad sweep that is supposed to solve it all.

1. Boder entry prevention
2. What to do with illegal immigrants already here.
3. Drug problem
4. Suspected immigrants

1. Border entry prevention. The federal govt has the resources to do so and must do now espacially as this crisis had made even americans now living in tents. It is a human right nitemare to the once prosperous US.


2. For the illegal immigrants already here - existing human rights compassion should be applied. US is not a nation of animals, and even though we may be poor now, there is no right for us to behave any lesser to another human.


There are 14 americans to every 1 illegal immigrant. Just one spoonful of grit from each of us will feed that illegal immigrant quick and easy without any of us noticing that we go hungry.


3. Drug problem:- drug problems is not only related to the borders north and south. Our ports and airports are also inflitrated. It takes more than just stopping someone on the street to stop drug trafficking. Anyone who thinks checking ID is enough is living in a pipe dream.


4. Suspected Immigrants:- To stop them is to find the root of the problem, and the root lies with the employers. The illegal immigrant cannot survive on welfare forever, nor is welfare given forever.

At some point, it ends and they have to find jobs to survive. The target is not innocent civilians in the street, but the people who employ them.


But what Nazi Arizona had done was to either stupidly or intentionally introduce a repressive Nazi style law into the people's consciousness as a solution.

What is going on here? Is Jan Brewer a closet Nazi set to revive the 4th Reich and nazify the whole of USA? We must watch these developements and his team carefully.

I insist that you stop with the Nazi bullcrap. The State of Arizona is not a Nazi State or Regime. They are a Sovereign entity and are fully capable of defending their own border since the Federal Government has elected not to do what they are supposed to be doing.

Clearly if anyone posting here is a Nazi, I put forth that YOU ARE !

Reading over this, I found it rather amusing that many of the people who were against a national ID card are now for it. I got on yahoo earlier to check my e-mail and one of the top trends was "national id card"

hmmmm.