Vast Static Charge on the Moon...

Hi all,

Doing some research on the moon no stars thread and found I had to justify why I believe we didn't walk on the moon. And when accused of hijacking the thread I decided it deserves its own thread.

I discovered back in 2007 that once a month the surface of the moon gets a charge of thousands of volts, this does not dissipate and so over time the charge build up is immense.

So how could we have landed on the moon and walked??

Scientists have discovered that the surface of the moon can accumulate a huge charge of static electricity - up to 4,500 V has been detected so far. The scientists, writing in Geophysics Research Letters number 34,

The Register

and this Video report in the link.

Astrophysicists found that the moon's surface becomes electrified during each full moon. The moon passes through the Earth's magnetotail, a cone of highly-charged particles, for about 6 days each month. On the side of the moon facing the sun, ultraviolet particles disrupt the electromagnetic effect, keeping the voltage at low levels, but on the dark side, the voltage can reach hundreds or thousands of volts.

Science Daily

Given the fact that there is nothing to discharge this static... It would have remained to some degree right through the phases of the moon, gaining a boost every time it enters the magnetotail.

Discuss??

Korg,

[edit on 25-4-2010 by Korg Trinity]

Wow! I wander how many other secrets are buried beyond our Moon...
S&F.

On the side of the moon facing the sun, ultraviolet particles disrupt the electromagnetic effect, keeping the voltage at low levels, but on the dark side, the voltage can reach hundreds or thousands of volts.

I think you already answered your own question......

Edited to add....Volts dont kill people like the next poster has said...its the amps that will

[edit on 25-4-2010 by loner007]

Originally posted by loner007

On the side of the moon facing the sun, ultraviolet particles disrupt the electromagnetic effect, keeping the voltage at low levels, but on the dark side, the voltage can reach hundreds or thousands of volts.

I think you already answered your own question......

Low levels?? 4500 volts??

Thats enough to knock out anything electronic and flatten a human. On the Dark side, hundreds of thousands of volts... well enough said.

It does make sense as to why there are no rovers on the moon.... And is one of the many reasons why I think Apollo was hoaxed.

All the best,

Korg.

You can get zapped with thousands of volts of static electricity and suffer no harm.

4500 volts with no amperage to speak of would be less than a minor irritation.

That being said, anyone who denies that we ever landed on the moon has been seriously drinking their bathwater.

Originally posted by Korg Trinity

Originally posted by loner007

On the side of the moon facing the sun, ultraviolet particles disrupt the electromagnetic effect, keeping the voltage at low levels, but on the dark side, the voltage can reach hundreds or thousands of volts.

I think you already answered your own question......

Low levels?? 4500 volts??

Thats enough to knock out anything electronic and flatten a human. On the Dark side, hundreds of thousands of volts... well enough said.

It does make sense as to why there are no rovers on the moon.... And is one of the many reasons why I think Apollo was hoaxed.

All the best,

Korg.

I think what Loner is getting at is the US didn't land on the dark side of the moon where the voltage of the static charge is at its highest...

The US landed on the bright side of the moon

reply to post by expat2368


This could be the first time I've agreed with you...

Yes it's all about the amperage, not the volts.

Originally posted by Retrovertigo

I think what Loner is getting at is the US didn't land on the dark side of the moon where the voltage of the static charge is at its highest...

The US landed on the bright side of the moon

Well why do you think there is serious consideration to this effect now?? this was only discovered in the 1990's.

Back in the 60's they would have not known about this effect.

Amplitude did you say? Annoyance did you say??

why not ask any electronics manufactures of the dangers of static to thier electronics. ESD kills electronics.

Whats-more is that the average static shock you may receive here on earth maybe enough to make you jump, but to an astronaut on the moon it may be enough to stop your heart out right.

check this...

First Science

Landis and colleagues at NASA Glenn first noticed this problem in the late 1990s before Mars Pathfinder was launched. "When we ran a prototype wheel of the Sojourner rover over simulated Martian dust in a simulated Martian atmosphere, we found it charged up to hundreds of volts," he recalls.

That discovery so concerned the scientists that they modified Pathfinder's rover design, adding needles half an inch long, made of ultrathin (0.0001-inch diameter) tungsten wire sharpened to a point, at the base of antennas. The needles would allow any electric charge that built up on the rover to bleed off into the thin Martian atmosphere, "like a miniature lightning rod operating in reverse," explains Carlos Calle, lead scientist at NASA's Electrostatics and Surface Physics Laboratory at Kennedy Space Center, Florida.

Similar protective needles were also installed on the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. image Electrostatic discharge points at the base of Sojourner's antenna. On the Moon, "Apollo astronauts never reported being zapped by electrostatic discharges," notes Calle. "However, future lunar missions using large excavation equipment to move lots of dry dirt and dust could produce electrostatic fields. Because there's no atmosphere on the Moon, the fields could grow quite strong. Eventually, discharges could occur in vacuum."

So Apollo never experienced anything even remotely static on the moon??

Hmmmmm... there appears to be a conflict going on here....

Korg.

Originally posted by Korg Trinity
Well why do you think there is serious consideration to this effect now?? this was only discovered in the 1990's.

Back in the 60's they would have not known about this effect.

Amplitude did you say? Annoyance did you say??

why not ask any electronics manufactures of the dangers of static to thier electronics. ESD kills electronics.

Whats-more is that the average static shock you may receive here on earth maybe enough to make you jump, but to an astronaut on the moon it may be enough to stop your heart out right.

check this...

First Science

Landis and colleagues at NASA Glenn first noticed this problem in the late 1990s before Mars Pathfinder was launched. "When we ran a prototype wheel of the Sojourner rover over simulated Martian dust in a simulated Martian atmosphere, we found it charged up to hundreds of volts," he recalls.

That discovery so concerned the scientists that they modified Pathfinder's rover design, adding needles half an inch long, made of ultrathin (0.0001-inch diameter) tungsten wire sharpened to a point, at the base of antennas. The needles would allow any electric charge that built up on the rover to bleed off into the thin Martian atmosphere, "like a miniature lightning rod operating in reverse," explains Carlos Calle, lead scientist at NASA's Electrostatics and Surface Physics Laboratory at Kennedy Space Center, Florida.

Similar protective needles were also installed on the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. image Electrostatic discharge points at the base of Sojourner's antenna. On the Moon, "Apollo astronauts never reported being zapped by electrostatic discharges," notes Calle. "However, future lunar missions using large excavation equipment to move lots of dry dirt and dust could produce electrostatic fields. Because there's no atmosphere on the Moon, the fields could grow quite strong. Eventually, discharges could occur in vacuum."

So Apollo never experienced anything even remotely static on the moon??

Hmmmmm... there appears to be a conflict going on here....

Korg.

I didn't say anything other than the US landed on the bright side of the moon where the voltage is lower than it is on the dark side...

And as Chadwickus and Expat have pointed out, when it comes to electricity its all about amperes or the strength of the current...Without it, voltage doesn't mean a great deal...

One of the articles quote in your O/P specifically states the voltage is at low levels on the side of the moon facing the sun...

A few things, as far as I'm concerned we did land on the moon. The evidence against is either poor or simply lacking. That my opinion.

As another poster mentioned, it's not voltage that kills, it's the amperage. Have a look at the voltages produced with Tasers for example from 50kV to 900kv that's 50,000 to 900,000 volts. Yet very low amperage.

Assuming this lunar charge does exist, the reason it doesn't electrocute lunar landers, rovers, space suited people is that it can't. Where do you propose it discharges too? Man made things or people going to the moon would by comparison be like rain drops hitting a power line, or a bird perched on one. Neither cause electrocution or get electrocuted. There needs to be a ground.
If I stood upon a sheet of copper that was laying on the ground, almost any voltage and current could be passed through that copper sheet, it would go to ground, not through me. However if I held that sheet of copper over my head while standing on the ground that current would travel through the copper and me to ground, likely killing me in the process.
Another example, throwing a coin onto an electric rail line doesn't electrocute the coin does it.
That is why no-ones been electrocuted by the moons charge. (If it has one)


Edit-: Too many zeros.


[edit on 25/4/2010 by who-me?]

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
And as Chadwickus and Expat have pointed out, when it comes to electricity its all about amperes or the strength of the current...Without it, voltage doesn't mean a great deal...

for all the people that are arguing volts add up to nothing without amps.. We are not trying to power a radio from it for christ sake....

Having worked within the electronics and It industry my entire career, I personally know that ESD KILLS electronics.

If you are technically minded you can read this...

Electrostatic Discharge

And are you guys denying the normal human experience of getting a static shock??? Try multiplying that shock by a factor of 10!!

See where I'm coming from?

Korg.

My conspiracy-minded self asks what if the charge is consumed? That couples kinda well with the 'death star' theory.

just an idea

[edit on 4/25/10 by CSquared288]

reply to post by Korg Trinity


the article actually states "...hundreds or thousands of volts", not hundreds of thousands.

and it could be dissipated upon meteor impacts.

Originally posted by shagreen heart
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

the article actually states "...hundreds or thousands of volts", not hundreds of thousands.

and it could be dissipated upon meteor impacts.

There are too many variabes that are not understood about this and its an ongoing project to define.

But I can say this, throughout all the apollo missions never once was any static mentioned.

I find this very odd.

Even if it's hundreds of volts, that's more than enough to kill any micro electronics. In fact only tens of volts is enough to seriously shorten life span or even kill most Microelectronics for that matter.

Peace Out,

Korg.

In the company I work, there is a lot of static electricity. Each time I touch a door handle, I jump a few meters away. I have stopped using bare hands to touch the doors, I use my sleeve to do that.

What Korg Trinity says is true about static electricity.

We all know that electricity likes to go to ground. The reason why static electricity shocks your finger as you touch a doorknob, is that the atmosphere is conductive, and the static charge you build up jumps to the door as a way to get to ground.

Since on the Moon, the electricity is already in the ground, and there is no atmosphere to speak of to bleed off the static electricity, why would the static electricity jump out of the ground, go through you, to get back into the ground? It simply wouldn't.

If you ever work with sensitive electronics, you know that one of the things you do to protect it from static shock is to wear a grounding strap on your wrist so that any static charge can ground itself through the strap and not through the electronics. Once again, the Static is already grounded on the Moon.

On Mars, unlike the Moon, you have the problem that there is an atmosphere, even if it is thin, and the static electricity can build up in an abject and the bleed off into the atmosphere. This could allow for any static buildup to spark as it jumps through the thin atmosphere and arcs to a nearby object, or even jumps across the atmosphere between sensitive electronics. Remember, that the atmosphere itself is conductive. This can't happen on the Moon as there is no atmosphere worth considering.

Or am I missing something here? I understand that on the Moon if you have a large enough piece of equipment, churning up enough moon dust, it could build up within itself a sufficient static charge, and then ground itself through you causing a shock. We haven't had such a situation yet but may face it if we begin to develop the Moonscape.

reply to post by Terapin


I agree and as others have said volts are meaningless. Compared to lightning 4500 volts is absolutely nothing. For electricity to jump in to a vacuum there needs to be an enormous voltage difference and even then without amps its harmless.

reply to post by Korg Trinity

No. It won't flatten a human
Depending on what you're wearing, here's what you can generate in your car seat.
* Nylon clothes: 21,000 volts
* Wool clothes: 9,000 volts
* Cotton clothes: 7,000 volts

www.jci.co.uk...

I don't think anyone has died from a static spark. Have they?





[edit on 4/25/2010 by Phage]

Maybe the moon has batteries that get chraged up in a cycle to keep our alien buddies inside nice and toasty.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


Got a 500,000 V static shock at school from a large Van Der Graff generator so whats the problem like others have stated its AMPS that kill not VOLTS again you made an assumption regarding this and its not correct.


Also re your comments on static and electronics I am costantly rebuilding compters for family and friends and have NEVER used an anti static wrist band never had a failure so hows that.....

If static is so deadly!

[edit on 25-4-2010 by wmd_2008]