Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

reply to post by 911stinks



Thanks, 911stinks

I'll be sure to take a look at that

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I take by your overly verbose, yet pointless, response that you agree that he was not forthcoming with details. Feel free to elicit a respoinse in regards details. Perhaps a healthy slathering of protoplasmic charm prior to 'questioning' may sufficiently open him up for you.

Octavian! The point to my response is obvious.

You behaved in a manner that would thwart the imparting of additional information, and did so purposefully.

You did this with premeditated forethought and malice, so that he would shut down before anyone such as I could get to him.

All you did was create confrontation, and you did so knowing that once confronted, you would provoke an emotional and entrenched reaction, that would trigger a fight or flight mechanism.

You knew this would create a hostile environment that would take maximum advantage of his already extreme and vulnerable emotional state, and cause him to attack back, and then flee in the face of superior numbers.

This is what we are now addressing, the truth, of the tactics being employed, were not ones employed by people genuinely looking to obtain and gain information, but to make sure no real information would continue to flow.

Now it is unlikely he will return to this thread, and less likely any of your Brotherhood, will exercise any due diligence in obtaining information, in maximum effective ways, but will continue to badger and belittle him, in an attempt to run him off.

You have conspired, to deny the ATS Membership the ability to interact with this man, in thoughtful and appropriate ways, for the purpose of your Brotherhood.

Do not think my paternal kinship in and of itself will forgive this, or let it go unspoken too.

There is some credibility to this man’s story, a story your tactics, could only be aimed at, keeping from being told.


[edit on 22/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Fair enough. But you know what this means though, don't you ?

It stands as public condemnation of the US Masonic brotherhood. For failing to properly inform those much sought converts (such as poor Vinny)

You presume that he's actually a Mason at all.

Absent a response to Saurus' easy-peasey questions in the opening page or so of this thread (which any Mason from this continent would be able to answer), you're staking your entire credulity on his as-yet-unsupported assertion that he's a Mason.

Originally posted by Dock9
To the point that those high-rolling Masons and Templars over there in Italy spotted Vinny's potential immediately and took him under their wing !

Assuming that Vinny's actually there and not jerking your chain from somewhere in Illinois.

Originally posted by Dock9
So Vinny's worth was apparent to everyone but the dullard Masons and Templars in the US, who were stingy to the point of paranoid-insanity with even commonly-realised information which --- as you've been at such pains to point out --- everyone knows anyway !

Shame on you !

Originally posted by Dock9
But in saying this, it's only fair I ask you WHY ... if Vinny simply stated commonly-known facts .... did the ATS Masonic fraternity fly into overdrive and intone darkly about checking Vinny's credentials ?

Intone darkly? Hardly! He impugned the character of a recognisable group of people. Why's it not cricket to be challenging his position to be making these as-yet-unsupported assertions?

reply to post by Dock9


I think it's quite obvious now that you're simply trolling. Vinny has shown his lack of credibility beyond all reasonable doubt. This particular thread is a joke.

reply to post by Dock9




You infered that rules regarding addmission may have been modified or broken for Vinny. They obviously were not as he, by ahis own post, stated that he was only an 'initiate'. A one day class attendee would have received all three degrees in one sitting.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by Dock9

 

I think it's quite obvious now that you're simply trolling. Vinny has shown his lack of credibility beyond all reasonable doubt. This particular thread is a joke.

This is inherently faulty thinking. One poster turned up evidence of the Jewelry Convention, another evidence of the Conference itself.

That he might have stumbled on the Website for the Conference is remote, but albeit possible, that he stumbled on the Website for the Jewelry Convention too?

Nearly impossible!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You behaved in a manner that would thwart the imparting of additional information, and did so purposefully.

You must be thinking of Vinny and his inability to be forthright from the very first page of this thread when asked for details.

Yup, I am certain, you were thinking of him.

reply to post by RealityisanIllusion
I hate to be the first to point this out but ...

Let's see, you are a jewelry dealer on a trip from Chicago to Italy, can't spell, you are alledgedly asked to be an interpreter for "diplomats", ha ha

It's allegedly not "alledgedly."

In almost every one of your posts you've made spelling mistakes:

1. 
   How can anyone dispute what you alledge you "heard" if you don't reveal that information? This attempt to aquire stars and flags is about played out, don't you think?
   www.abovetopsecret.com...

   
   Allege not alledge
   Acquire not aquire
   
   

2. 
   Yes, I seem to recall him saying he was "just and initiate", which would make him a Mason. Hmmmmm.....what are we to think now?
   www.abovetopsecret.com...

   The expression is "just an" not "just and"
   
   

3. 
   Exactly!!! Even in the most urgent cases when the son of a Master Maon wishes to fulfill the degrees before deployment to a war zone, it still takes greater that a month to complete the 3 required degrees to become a Master Mason.
   www.abovetopsecret.com...

   
   Mason not Maon

I'm by no means saying Vinny is correct, but since your argument is that spelling somehow reveals a persons earnestness, as adumbrated here,

What it has to do with the situation is that if you were genuine, you would have taken the extra time that you took for that reply to me to make sure that everything was correct. It's elementary my dear Watson.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Does this then mean I should give you the same quick shrift you've given Vinny? Or are you inconsistent and hypocritical too?

I think we should add a new fallacy to this list:

* Appeal to spelling

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Xtraeme]

No it's not a joke.

There was a real "templar like" group that met there in Italy.

His story checked out man.

It's not a hoax anymore.

Unless, you can prove there was no one famous at that meeting.

Than maybe we can talk hoax?

reply to post by Xtraeme


Some of those posts are mine that you are quoting, not the other poster. I will be the first to admit that I type too quickly at times but I try to edit any mistakes if I catch them.

Edit to add: In the sake of disclosure, Vinny's grammar had nothing to do with me doubting he was a Mason.





[edit on 22-4-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

Knights Templar are in fact Freemasons (the current day knights anyways..)

They belong to the YORK RITE side of Masonry.. which as far as I know, does not exist in Italy.

The Scottish Rite branch of Freemasonry exist in the USA (two different jurisdictions) England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Canada.

In short..

Your story is nothing but lies..

I came across this website, not sure how credible the source is


www.gnostictemplars.org...



As well as this link


www.gnostictemplars.org...


I got to this website by going threw links not a google search or anything. it took me about 30 minutes. here are some of the links

www.yorkriteofga.org...

www.knightstemplar.org...

below is same site as above but links to knights templar magazine

knightstemplar.org...

www.yorkrite.org...

www.yorkrite.org...

I'm canadian so i might as well use the local lodge lol

one click back and your hear

www.yorkrite.org...

these lead to this

www.operatives.org.uk...

I'm just having fun picking websites I have no clue if it's legit or not.
I honestly think that people care to much to find this stuff out and fight and bicker over it. It's always fun proving someone wrong, when you can prove it. It's not very peaceful and usually becomes hurtful most people on here have something bad to say, or want to shut people out. your just as bad as the government

If given power you'd prob be just as corrupt. we are in dire need to come together as a group. it's about peace and love guys, your living your life to fight on ATS about things you have no control over.
So what if the OP claims what happend, we can't prove it, why post if it's not positive.

Why say anything one of the main things people need to learn is allow the people around them to do as they please and worry about thy self. protect yourself. plan for your self, and once you can support your self, support others. but there's fully no need to critisize the OP you don't live his life, take what he say's and put your self in his shoes. what would you do if put in his situation.

Call the police

remember i'm posting on the 18th page why haven't all you brainiac's tried finding legit prof. should be common sense to search if there was a meeting in Italy

even IF the pages are wrong or a lie or a hoax. IT'S THERE

Call the police



[edit on 22-4-2010 by badfish86]

[edit on 22-4-2010 by badfish86]

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


It sounds from what you've written as if you're taking this Masons thing way too seriously

I mean, let's be honest here --- membership in Freemasonry is easier than winning a stray kitten

Maybe you were under the impression that Freemasons are an exclusive fraternity ?

No, no. Nothing could be further from the truth. Particularly when it comes to the lower levels, which is where 99.9% remain, despite those quick and easy one-day 33rd Degree events

To put it in perspective, imagine a pyramid. See the pointy bit at the top ? Well, that's out of bounds for you and all the other jostling and eager members. They don't need you up there. You weren't born into it and will never see it.

But don't despair ! For there's lots of room for you and ALL your friends in those roomy bottom tiers. They need you there. They need more and more of you there. It's the bottom tiers which hold up the very top of the pointy-bit, you see ?

And they need you to scrub-up and get out there on the hustings and to make a good impression, doing good works, such as running raffles to build schools and pay for people to have much-needed operations. You are salesmen. What those in the pointy-bit refer to as ... let's be polite and call you 'drones', or 'fodder'

To make you feel it's all worth it, they'll award you a few bits of metal every now and again, which you can wear to functions and feel proud !

There are other inducements too, such as the promise of never having to pay a parking or speeding ticket again. Because those in the pointy-bit like to keep the foot soldiers happy

So it's Win Win

Vinny will either go straight to the top. Or out the door. Because he's different, you see. He's not a boring plodder like the other 99.9%. He's an independent thinker. So it's obvious that he'd be unpopular with the rank and file who're prepared to gossip and backstab like a bunch of schoolgirls and who take their Masonic Oaths to heart and actually believe they're part of something SO important that they fight to declare how they'll sell out their first born son, rather than 'betray a brother'

And it's particularly hilarious that Vinny didn't betray anything that couldn't be found online ... unbeknown to all the experienced Degreed Masons who try to impress each other with their superior grasp of Masonic protocol

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

You must be thinking of Vinny and his inability to be forthright from the very first page of this thread when asked for details.

Did you mean Vincent the self avowed Mason who like every other Mason will only talk about certain things regarding the Brotherhood and Craft?

That Vincent, ah hem, what I saw was a man conflicted, who clearly told all of you he was a Mason and didn’t want to share anything in his estimation would break his vows.

I saw Network Dude say he might be a Mason and to hold off until confirmation was obtained, and him being shunned for that reasoned entreaty, while others attacked Vincent, alternately accusing of him being a betrayer of the Brotherhood, a Fraud, or incapable of rendering an accurate deciphering of what he claimed to have witnessed.

So Vincent the man who would only reveal so much as a Mason is reviled by his fellow Masons when it’s a little too much when ___________(Insert the name of any Mason here) who never reveals any part of the craft or the brotherhood is revered????

Yeah I got that, amazing what you see when people are paying attention.

Vincent’s story in fact has a lot of credible elements which is why 17 pages later you are still attempting to slander his character and post!

Thanks!


[edit on 22/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Dock9


Could you possibly (since you know more about Freemasonry than Masons do) explain to me exactly who (I want names) the "higher level" Freemasons are? .. Along with actual evidence of their involvement?

Perhaps you could enlighten the real Masons on the political structure of Masonry as a whole.. since I am sure more than one of us has sat through grand lodge elections.. it would be most .... illuminating..

One thing that is weird to me, is that I have heard people claim the Templars don't exist and haven't for over half a millenia.

That was yesterday, when everyone on ATS was trying to convince others they do not exist as a legitimate group,and only Rogue wanna-be groups pretend to be Templars.

Despite that History clearly shows their order was derived directly from the Order of the Templars. But thats beside the point.

The point is, yesterday (to ME) it seemed that the "Templars" were a legend.

Now today, they are a admitted reality.

It's like common knowledge somehow that Knights Templar still exist and have influence.

Well it wasn't common knowledge for me yesterday. Yesterday I thought it was a legend.

Now its real? What is going on here.

Look maybe you guys admitted to being Templars already on ATS, but I could swear I missed those posts entirely.

All I have seen for Years is the "They don't exist its a legend" excuse.

Today is the first day I can say on ATS, the Templars are alive and well. And I won't get flamed for this statement? This is Crazy stuff. I must be in some sort of parallel universe.



Cuz I know for sure the alternate universe I was in yesterday, Templars were legends not legit real things admitted to.

But now I am in this weird world where its totally open knowledge. I kinda like this alternate world better than the previous one.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by muzzleflash]

Originally posted by muzzleflash
No it's not a joke.

There was a real "templar like" group that met there in Italy.

"templar like" does not equate with templar. That's like me claiming I drive a Porsche-like vehicle because it has four wheels powered by an internal combustion engine.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

His story checked out man.

It's not a hoax anymore.

But the link has shown it to be an irregular group aka not-Masonic. This distinction is usually lost on non-Masons because quite honestly who'd call themselves Masons who weren't Masons? Which is why I keep citing the relevance of the Westboro Baptist Church in regards to Baptists in general.

Any jerk can hang out a shingle calling himself a masonic lodge or a baptist church.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Unless, you can prove there was no one famous at that meeting.

Than maybe we can talk hoax?

It's up to Vinny to prove the positive not for everyone else to disprove the negative. He could claim Elvis and Bigfoot were there. Are Masons to disprove that too?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


The last quote in the bullet-pointed list was snagged from one of your posts (which has now been fixed) and to be honest I have no beef with your particular argument, primarily because you're attempting to base it on actual reason. The "appeal to spelling" complaint is a worthless debating tactic and in general sticks in my craw.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Does saying "Vincent" make you appear more.. educated?

VinnyboyXI's story is complete trash because it makes no sense.. for starters.. that he got the orders in Masonry mixed up (york rite meeting as Scottish rite) .. and of course, the big dilemma that those side branches of Masonry are not practiced in Italy.

Originally posted by Dock9
Fair enough. But you know what this means though, don't you ?

It stands as public condemnation of the US Masonic brotherhood. For failing to properly inform those much sought converts (such as poor Vinny)

The US Masonic brotherhood failed abysmally, clearly

But it's an unavoidable failure. I have no problem with the idea that Vinny might be an Entered Apprentice. But at best, by the timeline we've seen, he's been one for about a month at most. In my state, Masons aren't supposed to visit other lodges until they've been made Master Masons (3rd degree), because it's not until they've gone through all three that they're fully "Masons".

Vinny going to such an event without a proper background is like throwing a first grade student in a conference full of physics professors.

He was in over his head, and he admits as much.

So yeah, Masonry failed Vinny, but he jumped the gun by going to something he thought was a Masonic function without fully understanding things like recognition between lodges.

When it comes down to it, ANY organization can call itself Masonic, or Templars, or OTO, or Rosicrucian, or Baptist, or whatever. But that doesn't mean that every OTHER group using the same name is going to recognize any authority calling itself that.

We've got a group calling themselves Templars. Good for them. They say they're Masonic. Who's going to stop them from making such a claim? There's not authoritative body that polices the use of the word. There are no trademark infringements, like there would be with Scientology. But it doesn't mean they're legit; it doesn't mean that his home lodge in Chicago would recognize them as being legit.