Teapartiers: What an outrage!

reply to post by Jenna


Saying AZ can only handle this with Federal help and offering a state like Idaho as an example is absurd. The problems in AZ are multitudes worse than a state like Idaho. Thats like saying California needs help with their ocean front, and you saying, only the Federal govt can help because maybe Montana needs help with their oceans too. Don't be ridiculous.

reply to post by johnny2127


Can't say I'm the least bit surprised that you completely ignored all my suggestions in favor of trying to argue over whether federal help is needed. As for your ocean comparison, that's a heck of a lot more ridiculous than anything in my post. Montana wouldn't need help with their ocean front because Montana doesn't have one. Idaho on the other hand does have illegals.

You asked what the states could do, I gave you an answer. What exactly do you propose states that aren't on the border do with their illegals? Take them to the next state south? Set up caravans to take illegals to the border themselves? Yes Arizona is having a hell of a time with illegals right now. I hate to break this to you, but they aren't the only ones who have illegals.

Originally posted by Afterall
No, lazy parents or cops makes more sense. You seemed to completely miss the point because you are so busy using every deflection tactic you can find to not discuss the actual bill and its implications. So, now cops can stop every brown person and ask for proof of citizenship. That is going to help the problem with the schools how? If these people are in school and have documents to prove they live in the district, then chances are pretty good they will have a fake birth certificate to carry around as well.

We are so stuck in privacy that NO they can't ask...its that simple. Ask you local school for god sakes and stop arguing that point…lol

But you are right it doesn’t make any sense and so you look for something that may be the case, but unfortunately it is not…sad isn’t it?

Meanwhile, brown AMERICAN CITIZENS who do not spend daily life prepared to fake who they are will also be forced to take the time to prove they belong where they belong.

You mean ALL American Citizens right (and more importantly ALL illegal aliens)? I don't see the word "Brown" in the bill. They should be willing, as all of us would be, to help fix that bad situation though, and thankful something is being done about it.

How are the schools benefitting from this?

Get the kids out of the schools that should not be there by getting the people out of the state that should not be there....

If it does not affect me then why are you telling me how I should value my tax dollars vs. money lost to illegal aliens in the context that this bill will somehow help?

I'm not telling you anything, I'm having a debate with you, but I guess I'm ranting (as you say). You my friend are ranting about a bill that affects another state, and I'm just saying its their state and their vote.

Yeah, so maybe you should realize how little sense it made to tell me about MY money going to illegals.

I'm missing your point...are you saying that none of your tax dollars are wasted on illegals?

So how does this bill affect your tax dollars?

Well yeah. I truly look forward to your explanations as to how this bill is going to solve any of the problems you have tried to use to argue in favor of it.

I truly don't think you care, but it will stop illegals from living in that state without ever the need to fear being checked, and so they will get caught and/or leave, plus others will think twice about coming to that state with such a law.

[edit on 21-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Can't say I'm the least bit surprised that you completely ignored all my suggestions in favor of trying to argue over whether federal help is needed.

As for your ocean comparison, that's a heck of a lot more ridiculous than anything in my post. Montana wouldn't need help with their ocean front because Montana doesn't have one. Idaho on the other hand does have illegals.

You asked what the states could do, I gave you an answer. What exactly do you propose states that aren't on the border do with their illegals? Take them to the next state south? Set up caravans to take illegals to the border themselves? Yes Arizona is having a hell of a time with illegals right now. I hate to break this to you, but they aren't the only ones who have illegals.

Yea, the fact Montana doesn't have oceans is my point Jenna. You didn't get the analogy. Idaho has illegals but doesn't have a problem of immense proportions like AZ. Much like how Montana has some shores, but not ocean front like California.

What do I propose? Well I propose that if the Federal Govt wont help, wont enforce their own laws, and will actually try to prevent a state law Montana from enforcing the law, then I think AZ is completely within its rights to deal with the problem as they are now.

Actually I do not see this bill making it pass the Gov’s desk, but what I hope it will do is get the fed off their asses and fix this problem they are been looking the other way on, and border state like AZ and CA are dying a slow death because of it.

The Fed Government is afraid of offending Mexican/Americans and so will not do a thing about one of our major issues and just maybe AZ will show that not offending can no longer be use as an excuse since we do not have the luxury to ignore it as we did in the past.

The natural checks on this problem are with the grand jury investigation which follows information from a crime or tips provided within the community. The NWO will always leverage issues along angles that appeal to provide solutions in order to erode freedom and spread the web of control. The NWO will also facility the spread of the problems to facilitate the promotion of fictional solutions like this one. People remain herding animals and look for the hero, savior, superman, solution to come to their rescue. This only gives government people over them. People should know better than to look to a downstream fiction like Government to come to their aid. All they need do is insist on a have dozen natural and basic processes that keep government from committing fraud and crime against them.

reply to post by johnny2127


So basically, you had no interest in an actual response to your question thus wasting my time. You've no real point to make aside from this bill is a great idea, thus you post ridiculous analogies and act like I'm a fool for not getting it. Awesome, have fun with that.

Why would the tea partiers not support this bill? It has nothing to do with health care reform or taxation, yet everything to do with the infringement of civil rights.

How many tea partiers do you think would be in favor of gay civil unions? Government intrusion is just fine, as long as it enforces the laws we want to enforce. Sure, Bush gave us two illegal wars, the patriot act, and torture, but at least he didn't allow two Nancy boys to the same rights as us normal folk. If he had done that or, of course, lowered taxes for the middle class, then you can bet your sweet patootie we would have formed this party two presidential elections ago! Down with OSAMA! (the S stands for socialism, btw)

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Torgo]

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by johnny2127

 

So basically, you had no interest in an actual response to your question thus wasting my time. You've no real point to make aside from this bill is a great idea, thus you post ridiculous analogies and act like I'm a fool for not getting it. Awesome, have fun with that.

Ask me anything. You haven't made one point I haven't gotten. You think this has to be a Federal thing and AZ has no right to do what they are doing. I get it.

reply to post by johnny2127


And now I've discovered the problem. You didn't actually read my post, you skimmed it at best. Thus your response that makes no sense given what you were responding to.

I would also like to add that if it weren't for the internment camps that held Japanese Americans during WW II, today we would be speaking German, Japanese, or, even worse, a mixture of the two! Just because you're a legal citizen, doesn't mean that you're above the law of prejudice! I'm sorry that you look like an illegal immigrant, "Heyzeus", but you're just going to have to grin and bear it so you can enjoy the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us! God Bless America!

Originally posted by Torgo
I would also like to add that if it weren't for the internment camps that held Japanese Americans during WW II, today we would be speaking German, Japanese, or, even worse, a mixture of the two! Just because you're a legal citizen, doesn't mean that you're above the law of prejudice! I'm sorry that you look like an illegal immigrant, "Heyzeus", but you're just going to have to grin and bear it so you can enjoy the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us! God Bless America!

You're saying that had we not interred the Japanese we would have lost WWII?

reply to post by Darkrunner


He never said he would get them out of both just Iraq, besides the american military has other jobs to do besides make our borders military controlled. You really want that? Come on.

Originally posted by digifanatic
reply to post by Everwatcher33

 

I don't think we are that open to receiving. I know that we have a quota system by nationality in place for legal immigration. It may just seem like we let everyone in because there was the amnesty bill that got passed, I think, in the 80's. Plus there are a lot of illegal aliens (used broadly) in this country.

We do let a lot of people in, we do have quotas for certain countries. Not every country. Most of the time unless the quota for that country has already been filled we have been taking almost anyone who wants to come. The amnesty bill was a bust and failed horribly, hardly anyone took advantage of it. There are always been illegal aliens in this country for as long as it has been around. It won't go away and it can't be stopped by passing new laws. The only thing you can hope to do is reduce the problem...even that is iffy.

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by Everwatcher33

It's not just AZ asking for help, CBP, USCIS, ICE have all been asking for help for a long time, haven't gotten it. AZ can pass the law all they want they still won't be getting rid of people, that law states they turn them over to ICE, ice will just let them go they can't deal with them all.

Everyone has to sit and take it right now, because what no one has the tools to fight the problem. And while those crimes are a direct result of illegals they are also a result of american citizens, legal residents, drug users who are citizens, illegals and perm residents. You can't lump those crimes as just being direct results from illegals.

It's hard to say what exactly to do, strictly speaking of the illegal problem. First of all we should modifiy a system like E-verify to actually work and increase it's ability to detect people. Then provide it to local authorities on border states first. Teach them how to use it, what to look for, what Federal authorities look for. If they can prove that they are indeed illegal, ICE needs a seperate entity in it to handle those cases alone, stream line the process. Take their information, prints, set them up in the system. You need to hire more immigration judges to hear the cases. The problem now is illegals go into the same pool of cases as people who have commited murders.

CBP needs more money and people willing to patrol the border, increase their money and man power to deter coming in in the first place. Some argue build a fence...mexican just tunnel under it.

The director of homeland security was the GOV on AZ no? The passage of this law doesn't do anything, they still have no way to enforce it and it will cause problems when you have cops just stopping people to provide papers citizens and alike. What happens when you have citizens who don't have their papers on them and they try to deport them? Big ass law suit.

See herein lies the problem. You only see Federal solutions. To you, only the Federal Govt has the right or authority to do anything about this. This is where myself and most people in AZ completely disagree with you. AZ has the right to defend itself and keep illegals out of their state.

And its not the fault of US citizens when illegals are killing border patrol agents and citizens with no ties to drugs. Not any US citizens fault when illegals are kidnapping US citizens for random.

If you would have read my post I stated I believe in a effort between local and federal. But OUR laws state immigration matters rest in the hands of the federal government, the SCOTUS doesn't like to get involved in taking that power away from federal government. It's not what I see it's what is. AZ can pass all the laws they want but if anyone raises an issue with it the SCOTUS will more than likely take the federal authority of immigration over a states right.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
reply to post by LurkerMan

 

useing my own example. the Federal Government represents the Costco worker who checks the memberships at the door, and Arizona represents a Cashier within the stoor. just because a non-member got passed the doorman without showing a membership doesnt mean the cashier cant still ask for it while your in line, and kick you out before purchasing your products.

the doorman isnt the only person in the stoor with the authority to check to make sure your allowed to be there. these poeple are getting paid to SERVE customers, so if your not a customer they sure as hell arent going to serve you. and they all have the authority to choose who will receive the benifits of that service, seeing as how they are the ones performing said service.

Except that local governments and courts have no authority over deporting people.

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Can't say I'm the least bit surprised that you completely ignored all my suggestions in favor of trying to argue over whether federal help is needed.

As for your ocean comparison, that's a heck of a lot more ridiculous than anything in my post. Montana wouldn't need help with their ocean front because Montana doesn't have one. Idaho on the other hand does have illegals.

You asked what the states could do, I gave you an answer. What exactly do you propose states that aren't on the border do with their illegals? Take them to the next state south? Set up caravans to take illegals to the border themselves? Yes Arizona is having a hell of a time with illegals right now. I hate to break this to you, but they aren't the only ones who have illegals.

Yea, the fact Montana doesn't have oceans is my point Jenna. You didn't get the analogy. Idaho has illegals but doesn't have a problem of immense proportions like AZ. Much like how Montana has some shores, but not ocean front like California.

What do I propose? Well I propose that if the Federal Govt wont help, wont enforce their own laws, and will actually try to prevent a state law Montana from enforcing the law, then I think AZ is completely within its rights to deal with the problem as they are now.

If you actually read the law it states that they aren't dealing with anything they are handing over illegals to...none other than the FEDS that's right. AZ isn't doing anything with that law other than clogging up their system more than it already is.

[edit on 4/22/2010 by Everwatcher33]

reply to post by Angus123


No, I was merely being sarcastic. A while back, the wife of an ultraconservative local radio host (Bob Golic, WNIR) said on the air that the internment camps for Japanese Americans were a good thing, and were needed at the time to keep this country safe. It just irked me so much to hear someone say that they thought it was a good idea to round up and imprison their fellow American citizens just because they happened to look like the enemy, that her comments stuck with me.

Those people came to this country just like the rest of us. They worked for their citizenship and struggled against the odds of prejudice, all so they could take part in the American dream. Ultimately, they were repaid for their hard work and loyalty by being dragged from their homes and forced into concentration camps. How that could not bother someone claiming to be a conservative who opposes government intrusion into their lives just boggled my mind. Of course, she then went on to imply that we might need to do the same with Americans of middle eastern decent today.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by Torgo]

Originally posted by Angus123
Oh for fake jeebuz sake! You know what? Everyone yiping that this is about illegal aliens is wrong. It's about YOU. The born here American Citizen.

You can be walking down the street, obeying the law minding your own damn business and under this law you can be stopped with no probable cause and have to prove your citizenship. Left your proof at home? Too damn bad Billy Bob... we're going downtown!
Yee-haw! Now that's M'urkan aint it? The Founding Fathers would pimp slap every one of you advocating this.

All this talk about the Constitution being in line with that is garbage. These lawmakers proposing this are wiping their fat rumps with it.

And before some constitutional genius comes out and says if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about, don't bother...

That is ALWAYS what the populace says before they allow REAL tyrants to take over.

Dip your tea bags in that why don'tcha?

And you know what your biggest asset is going to be in that case? A firm grasp of the English language!

A born-here American citizen is going to know how to speak English and recite their ABCs with no problem and probably tell the officer what was on TV last night, their favorite shows, their favorite foods, etc.

You're acting like these cops are robots with no common sense, not human beings who can think for themselves.

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by Angus123
Oh for fake jeebuz sake! You know what? Everyone yiping that this is about illegal aliens is wrong. It's about YOU. The born here American Citizen.

You can be walking down the street, obeying the law minding your own damn business and under this law you can be stopped with no probable cause and have to prove your citizenship. Left your proof at home? Too damn bad Billy Bob... we're going downtown!
Yee-haw! Now that's M'urkan aint it? The Founding Fathers would pimp slap every one of you advocating this.

All this talk about the Constitution being in line with that is garbage. These lawmakers proposing this are wiping their fat rumps with it.

And before some constitutional genius comes out and says if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about, don't bother...

That is ALWAYS what the populace says before they allow REAL tyrants to take over.

Dip your tea bags in that why don'tcha?

And you know what your biggest asset is going to be in that case? A firm grasp of the English language!

A born-here American citizen is going to know how to speak English and recite their ABCs with no problem and probably tell the officer what was on TV last night, their favorite shows, their favorite foods, etc.

You're acting like these cops are robots with no common sense, not human beings who can think for themselves.

So where does enforcement stop a?

I wanna know?

IS a movie theater off limits?

Church?

Bar?

Super Market?

You forget enforcement agents get promoted for the quantity of collars they produce.

Furthermore how is this not an expansion of government and its powers?

I believe enforcement need to be AT the borders...

You want to reduce government, this is not a good way to facilitate that