Belgium moves to ban the burqa

A truly plural society where I could walk down the street clad in the sky and you can walk down it beside me covered in three layers of clothing from head to toe with one eye showing so you don't trip.

I don't get to walk downtown naked and you don't get to force your wife or daughter to wear several layers of religio-fetish wear to prove your dominance.

This is the kind of government intrusion that I find so disturbing. I believe in religious freedom and there are several women in the Muslim faith who do not have a problem wearing the veil. This is ridiculous on Belgium's part and it will do nothing more than build a solid "us against them". Any time you demonize something, it's just going to make people want to to it more. Look at prohibition as an example of that. This is stupid.

Originally posted by Aeons
To quote a woman I know who is from Saudi Arabia

She is in the West, and she is a modern woman.

When she's back there she does what her owner tells her to do.

She has a husband. But she is not MARRIED. She has a contract, and that contract is not applicable here. She has an owner, and when she is here she dresses accordingly.

This woman isn't some young rebellious girl. She's a grandmother.

The men IMPOSE this. They are OWNERS of women.

That is what the burqua means. It is a sign of submission. And it is culturally unacceptable here.

Dude what the he** are you talking about?

"To quote a woman i know?" Ya right stop talking out of you a**

Your stupid post actually made me dig up my password and just tell you to shut the he** up

Seriuosly man, "to qoute a woman i know?" just stop while your down

Hit you too close to home again Pujol? You don't like that "your" women know that you just get off in claiming that your fetishes are divine commandments?

[edit on 2010/3/31 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons


Na, but i figured to let you know that you are an ignorant person speaking out of your a**. See ya later miss,

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by blueorder

 

For the Muslim wife to get outside, her only option is to wear that damn burqa.

What the frell are you talking about?
Why do you people even speak without the least shred of knowledge? It is NOT anywhere in Islam that the man shall tell his wife what is she to wear, or if she is to wear niqab, burqa, or whatever.
When will you get this?

The order to COVER the body is in the Qur'an and it is directed to both men and women - if the woman wants to OBEY GOD then she will cover herself (this doesnt mean burqa, but cover "intimate" body parts and not expose other parts which may be deemed as erotic).
It is NOT ALLOWED for a man to command her wife if she will do this or not. It is FOR HER BENEFIT before God, not before man.

I am muslim, and I don't go around commanding my wife what is she to wear - she CAN READ for herself, she can decide whether she will obey God or not - if she sins, IT IS HER SIN, not mine.

In the Day of Judgement we will all be alone with OURSELVES and OUR deeds.

[edit on 3/31/2010 by skajkingdom]

Religion is idiotic. Religious beliefs are nonsense. All Religions are Political Terrorist Cults.
They should ban all religions.
Religion is the OPIATE of the masses.
If there were no religions we might even have peace.
(Spiritual practices such as meditation and the practice of Love are something else.)

Originally posted by pujols5
reply to post by Aeons

 

Na, but i figured to let you know that you are an ignorant person speaking out of your a**. See ya later miss,

Finally figured out I'm female eh? Good for you.

Which raises the possibility that a woman actually talked to me about this - because she would be more likely to talk to a woman about it than a man.

So sad - my ass is smarter than you.

I think burqas are stupid. I do however think if one chooses to wear one, one should be allowed to do so. Only forcing someone to wear a burqa should be a crime.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Albanians are Europeans, and are just a tad bit more civilized than your average arab muslim. Sounds like Europe is being overrun with arab immigrants. This new law is just a reaction (Probably too late) to the fact that Europe is losing it's culture to these invading barbarian curs.
I guess banning the burqa, falls well short of kicking them out on their arses. Which Europe should be about, and soon if it wants to survive.
Sad, very sad.
US is next.

Wow, didn't take long for the racists to come out. Glad to know Nazism is still alive in Europe.

As for the U.S, I'd be more worried about the cartel trying to kill me than a bunch of ladies in Burqas.

This is just grandstanding. Frankly, I think it prohibits the free expression of religion for those who wish to practice it. That's wrong but, hey as long as your happy right? Who cares about the rights of other people?

[edit on 31-3-2010 by antonia]

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

It is CHILD ABUSE, for my children to see women dressed in a shroud, this is ABUSE of women, and its abuse of my children to see this ugly repression modelled in front of their eyes. I love all people, but ALL "traditions", no. Children need to see equality between men and women being modeled and demonstrated at all times.

This is something that needs to be dealt with in all "free" and "equal" countries.

What if the women wanna wear those types of cloths?

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

It is CHILD ABUSE, for my children to see women dressed in a shroud, this is ABUSE of women, and its abuse of my children to see this ugly repression modelled in front of their eyes. I love all people, but ALL "traditions", no. Children need to see equality between men and women being modeled and demonstrated at all times.

This is something that needs to be dealt with in all "free" and "equal" countries.

What if the women wanna wear those types of cloths?

PONY GIRLS can wear what they want
at home.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by pujols5
reply to post by Aeons

 

Na, but i figured to let you know that you are an ignorant person speaking out of your a**. See ya later miss,

Finally figured out I'm female eh? Good for you.

Which raises the possibility that a woman actually talked to me about this - because she would be more likely to talk to a woman about it than a man.

So sad - my ass is smarter than you.

Not only are you funny, but now i know you are a teenage drama queen.

Anyways, you are still lying from your behind "I know a woman who said this?" do you want me to say it for you very clear? "YOU ARE SPEAKING FROM YOUR A**, YOU ARE A LIAR" you are using one of the oldest excuses in the book. Again, stop while you're down.

Originally posted by antonia
Wow, didn't take long for the racists to come out. Glad to know Nazism is still alive in Europe.

As for the U.S, I'd be more worried about the cartel trying to kill me than a bunch of ladies in Burqas.

This is just grandstanding. Frankly, I think it prohibits the free expression of religion for those who wish to practice it. That's wrong but, hey as long as your happy right? Who cares about the rights of other people?

[edit on 31-3-2010 by antonia]

Has nothing to do with racism or Naziism. I has everything to do with
Self-Preservationism. The Belgians have every right to try and preserve
their own culture. Even if it may offend someone (The Horror !!)
If these immigrants choose to leave their home countries and move to another, they should at the very least respect the culture, and try to assimilate. It should be obvious if given a miniscule amount of thought that
the Belgians are not rasists for the simple fact that they let these people into their country in the first place.
The old saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" was good advice.
You are right about the Cartels though.

Originally posted by oozyism
What if the women wanna wear those types of cloths?

And what if they don't want to wear the Burqa, but are forcefully made to do so by their husbands like many women are in Afghanistan? Why do you think this particular group of women doesn't work? Because they don't want it or their husbands forbid them? Besides, I am not allowed in this country to walk down the street with my face covered by a balaclava, so why should these women be an exception on the rule?

It seems hard for some people to accept - and I think there religious tolerance in Western Europe is enormous - that foreigners should abide our rules and integrate into our society. Not the other way around. Belgium has every right to draw the line at a certain point and wearing a Burqa prevents one from integrating.

I have only seen someone in a burqa once and it was pretty shocking. It just doesn't belong here and if you want to wear it you simply go to Saudi-Arabia. Head scarves are perfectly fine on the other hand.



[edit on 1-4-2010 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by justinsweatt
This is the kind of government intrusion that I find so disturbing. I believe in religious freedom and there are several women in the Muslim faith who do not have a problem wearing the veil. This is ridiculous on Belgium's part and it will do nothing more than build a solid "us against them". Any time you demonize something, it's just going to make people want to to it more. Look at prohibition as an example of that. This is stupid.

It already IS an 'us against them' in Belgium.

I grew up around Antwerp and went to school in the city. Most big cities in Belgium has been multi-cultural for at least 25 years. The city is divided in multiple cultural areas: a Chinese district, a Jewish one, an Islamic one, ... each of those got their own religious buildings long time ago and where allowed to practice their beliefs, each religious group got their own classes implemented into the school systems. Religious tolerance has been preached in school for at least 20 years!
Islamic persons started to join the political scene without much problems, they spoke up for their community, made sure their needs where met swell... it seemed to work.

a couple of years ago, when you walked in the city, almost none of the Islamic woman had head scarfs on, I have never seen a headscarf in my school when I went to highschool there. It wasn't an issue and no one talked about it.
BUT, since the debate started two years ago, almost every Islamic women wears the scarf (they say it's out of their own free will, but that's another debate). When you go to one of Belgiums big cities now, you feel like you are in the Middle East. That is NOT "multicultural" anymore.

And then to say it all started with a law that stated that head scarf weren't allowed for Islamic woman who worked in banks, that they couldn't wear the scarf while working. (which was a very reasonable law imo). Next came the schools and ever since then the scarfs are everywhere you look.

edit to say : The debate in Belgium was not only about the burqa or headscarfs, but about ALL religious and political symbols in public places like schools and banks (even the cross). Only the Islam took offense.

It just exploded in our faces, and I mean everyone's faces, Belgian Catholics as well as Islamics ... so it already is an us against them mentality. The sad thing is, it's not the older generations, it are the younger ones... and that doesn't set a good foundation for the future.

But to see some state that Belgium is intolerant or compare us to Nazi's...
I think most forget that this is a scenario that goes on in most western Europe, not just Belgium.




[edit on 1/4/2010 by GypsK]

I watched a documentary on BBC called 'Women, Weddings, War and Me' where a young Afghanistan born British girl goes to visit her family there. The way the women are treated brought tears to my eyes.

The girl tried wearing a burqa (Part 3). For starters she couldn't see anything, but said that because of the male dominated society she could see why they wore them. I believe women should have the freedom to choose what they want to wear, but if they are making that choice so that men don't look at them like they're whores just for being themselves, then something is seriously wrong.

Here's the documentary. Well worth a watch! Especially the part with the 15 year old girl that was sold to another family when she was 12, and set herself on fire to try to escape her oppressors (Part 5) .

BBC IPlayer
Women, Weddings, War and Me















[edit on 1-4-2010 by Nammu]

reply to post by Nammu


Thanks for that video Nammu!!

I think we can all agree that the burqa is not acceptable and degrading for women. It is not just a piece of clothing, it's a tool for oppression.

But the question at hand is, what goal does it serve to ban this piece of clothing. From what i gather it serves our own interest. People are afraid and will not allow any culture within their country to walk around in such a way that identification is impossible (and rightly so!!).

But what becomes of the oppressed group that will be forbidden by law to dress in this fashion? The oppressor will simply not allow her to go outside, convicting her to a life indoors.

So then we will have no more burqa's in the street. Everybody happy...???

What about those women? We just leave them behind to deal with their own problems? As long as we don't have to see it?

This will only affect 25 women in Belgium.....that is exactly 25 to many people being oppressed in a country that promotes Freedom, Equality and Justice.

When did we decide that closing our eyes to the injustice of an other, as long as we can life in ignorance, became the norm???

Belgium, you have 25 of you fellow countrymen living in oppression!! Are you going to stand for that or are you going to turn your head and look away??

My instinct tells me we should help these women in a better way then what we came up now...I'm done.

Peace

Personally, i don't agree with banning any item of clothing.

So we start with the burqa, what next? It opens a new door to control of people and what they choose to put on their own bodies. No government should be able to dictate what clothes people wear. The old 'but you can't see their face' response just shows up the people with trust issues or xenophobic attitudes.

I agree with you, operation mindcrime. The time and effort would be better spent empowering women, increasing their confidence and helping them to be comfortable just being themselves.

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by tigpoppa
belgium is one of the more radical european countries on par with France. This is yet another example of their religious intolerance.

Can you explain why muslim countries such as Tunisia and Turkey have also banned it?

ITs secular constition which is quiet good
as it means anyone that wants to impose religous laws can be ousted from power, but its funny for one thing.
anyone notice how the muslim countries which BAN these (even head scarfs)
send their daughters to the UK/US and so on where they wear them?

i am all for this, been reading up on it and havent seen any justification for Burqas to worn anywhere.