Sound - The Lost Secret of the Ancient Monument Builders is Finally Coming to Light!

awesome thread thanks for posting. Will definitely read tomorrow. Just posting to put it in myats. S&F

reply to post by ressiv


Sound is already being used in medicine. They break up kidney stones with soundwaves. (Lithotripsy)

Everyone's taught to use the stethoscope and percussion in assessment too. I know there's probably a lot more uses, I just can't think of them.

Excellent thread - and it reminded me of a place I visited years ago n Irealnd which predates StoneHenge and the pyramids. Not sure if it has an acoustic links to it, but it might be of interest to you anyway.

It is called NewGrange and is a fascinating mound similar to one in your posts.

Cymatics - www.youtube.com...

"A simple experiment demonstrating the visualisation of cymatics can be done by sprinkling sand on a metal plate and vibrating the plate, for example by drawing a violin bow along the edge, the sand will then form itself into standing wave patterns such as simple concentric circles. The higher the frequency, the more complex the shapes produced, with certain shapes having similarities to traditional mandala designs."

I've always wanted to try an experiment where the metal plate is a pyramid chamber, the sand would be smoke, and the audio speaker would be people chanting inside the pyramid chamber. I imagine the smoke might produce a 3D effect similar to the cymatic video above. Sry, bad explanation.

reply to post by kiwifoot
This is one of the best executed threads I've seen on ATS. It's superb and the argument is meticulously sourced. It's easily credible enough to be in a popular science or broadsheet magazine. There's not much to add beyond the compliments.

Our earliest ancestors were inevitably as interested with sound as we are today. Humming, singing and the sound of one type of rock striking another would all be familiar. Such things are hard to date and rest largely on critical thinking.

One small piece of evidence that our interest in music reaches far, far back into the dawns of time is this little beauty...

Neanderthal bone flute fragment
Anthropology blog

This has been dated to between 80 000 and 40 000 years ago. Some argue that the holes are actually 'teeth marks' from a bear That Neanderthals had developed a flute is fascinating stuff by itself. What makes it more interesting is that it would be dependent on knowledge of music that preceded it even further back in time. There's a fascinating essay here...I never fail to link it when the opportunity arises...Oldest Musical Instrument's 4 Notes Matches 4 of Do, Re, Mi Scale

How about us then? How far back have we been creating music? Hard to say, but we can whistle, clap and strike things in the same way our distant ancestors could. We also have evidence that they too were making music...

Hohle Fels Cave bone flute (40 000 years old)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a2e52e6e2598.jpg[/atsimg]
Bone Flute Is Oldest Instrument, Study Says

These examples illustrate that we have been interested in music and acoustics for over 40 000 years. They were discovered inside caves that would increase their resonance...interesting huh?

It's hard to conclude whether the ancient monument builders designed for acoustics or if the acoustics were naturally occurring outcomes of architecture. Modern cathedrals and buildings have acoustic considerations as part of the architectural planning, maybe they did too? We had to start somewhere!

More prehistoric music...

reply to post by kiwifoot


when i was young i have seen this Bull-Roarer as you call it
in a movie and if you have seen this movie ! it is exactly what it is and after hearing the mp3 sound you posted yep that is ! it the bull roar


the movie

Exorcist II Heretic the section where i saw this from was trying to find a
clip from the movie of this part but only found this with Dion band music but in this clip it shows a African boy Kokumo like Shaman ? Using the Bull Roar to drive the locust to leave the sound would be the same as the mp3 you posted ! well at least you can visual it how it is used !

www.youtube.com...

here i found a clip on you tube part 4 and in this you can here the sound it should make !


www.youtube.com...

this is a Native Aussie demonstrating communication with it well sort of
they can be deadly also watch the Video and you will see !

www.youtube.com...

bullroarer music

The bullroarer,[1] rhombus, or turndun, is an ancient ritual musical instrument and means of communicating over extended distances. It dates back to the Paleolithic period, being found in Ukraine dating from 17,000 B.C. It is found in Europe, Asia, the Indian sub-continent, Africa, the Americas, and Australia.

en.wikipedia.org...

also i was thinking of another artifact that has sound recording like a vinyl record is the dropa stone's ? yeah i know conjuncture

and is the Egyptians pyramids frequency balanced ? if so what about the new world pyramids >? Aztec, Incas , Mayans








[edit on 21-3-2010 by Wolfenz]

Brilliant thread!

It always makes me laugh when scientists get themselves in a flurry when they think they have discovered something new, when this has been recorded continuously for thousands of years through the mystery schools and esoteric/exoteric texts.

We never lost it, most of us have just forgotten about it for a while! As someone said above, imagine the possibilities of using sound to our (unselfish) advantage. This is just the tip of the iceberg and I hope 'science' catches up with the rest of it soon.

what is marvelous is how humans in each different "eras" have found the same solutions but with different approach, like construction, health treatment, weather forecasting etc. We shall learn about more ourselves, because many time all this kind of discoveries are just like, ok good discoveries but no one tries to apply them to our 2010 world.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but WOW does that remind anybody else of a guitar?
I wonder if it was the inspiration for the design of the guitar? If not then it's quite a coincidence.

Fantastic thread, well done - it must've taken you quite a time to put all of this info together!

May be related or not, but i remember a thread here, not too long ago that presented similar finding in Medieval architecture. Although not exactly the same thing as you have shown, it was about deliberate encoding of sequences of sound and octaves in the placement and frequency of stone decorations inside cathedrals and such.

It seems the architects and or masons that built these buildings, hid a coded musical or sound in the actual design, that when translated into musical notes and such, created a music or sequence of tones and octaves.

A Father and son team, spent about 20 years or so, deciphering the 'music' apparently derived from stone features inside the buildings (in the UK).

For what purpose? Maybe the same reason as these ancient monument builders had. To convey a message or create a resonance in the listener to bring them into altered states?

I'll have a look around and if i find any links, i'll edit and update this post, unless anyone else beats me to it.

Found it;

It's called 'The music of the cubes' and describes Rosslyn chapel, as featured in the book and film 'The Da Vinci code'.

Here's a link to a page with more information, plus an audio file of the 'decoded music', called 'The Rosslyn Motet'.

crystalinks.com...

Mp3 of the audio file

multimedia.scotsman.com...

Further, it's theorised that the musical score, when played inside the chapel, and on medieval instruments available at the time of building, it may unlock a secret passage or hidden alcove (etc) like some kind of musical key.



[edit on 21/3/2010 by spikey]

[edit on 21/3/2010 by spikey]

I have to say a big thanks to everyone posting appreciation of the thread, far t many to reply to individually of course, but thanks all the same.

I'll try and get to some of the questions posed, if i don't, please don't feel like I'm ignoring anyone, feel free to U2U me if you want to chat more!

Originally posted by 1984hasarrived
Excellent thread - and it reminded me of a place I visited years ago n Irealnd which predates StoneHenge and the pyramids. Not sure if it has an acoustic links to it, but it might be of interest to you anyway.

It is called NewGrange and is a fascinating mound similar to one in your posts.

Hey mate, I came across New Grange in my research, and actually had to physically restrain myself from looking at is as I NEW I'd have to post it because it was so amazing. After Maeshowe I just thought one mound was enough.

Thanks for the link, now I've finished my post I can look at it, you're so lucky to have visited it!

All the best, kiwi

reply to post by Kandinsky



As always my friend you've just added that extra bit of seasoning to the meal that makes it perfect!

Thanks for the post, that flute is truly amazing, I'll enjoy reading the links you've provided.

I don't know if the Ancients understood acoustics enough to explain it, but I think they definitely knew how to use and manipulate sound.

We think we are so clever, but essentially that's because a lot of people have done the work before us, these civilisations were riding the wave of modern technology, discovering things for the first time, amazing!

All the best Kandinsky,



(removed large quote)

[edit on Mon Mar 22 2010 by Jbird]

Great posting. I really enjoyed reviewing the links and such. This is why I like to come to ATS. While most of the time the postings are ludicrous, but when I read something like I just did, I am not only impressed, but I am thankful for a forum whereby one can post such material and not be ridiculed by those too ignorant to know any better or too lazy to take the time to get informed.

Thanks again. Great effort and it was a good subject matter to help increase our understanding of things not yet fully decided or completely understood by those that make a profession of living among the ancient ruins and architectural historical sites.

Thanks again. Great read.

Incredible research Kiwifoot! Playing drums brings a total different set of acoustics to the actual drummer than the listener in the audience. So in the same way acoustically speaking, I do feel the drummer could actually control it's audience at will. So in conjunction with your theory about the ancient priests and tribal leaders controlling the populace or even worship with these acoustic chambers is right on the money, especially when you mentioned percussive instruments could have been used to initiate or enhance the resonance factor.
Wow! I am impressed, the ancients were highly intelligent, and your excellent post reminds me of this very fact.

reply to post by HalfAWorldAway


Maybe separated humans discovered and used very similar technology, because we are basically 'wired' up the same and consequently arrive at similar solutions to problems?

reply to post by kiwifoot


As always expected...above and beyond, good post/thread info.
I would like to just re-mention the Bull Roarer.....
This devise is the 1st and earliest form of 3D doppler affect sound, and there are many debatable, theories about how technical it could have been or used/applied, if the science was truely understood at any times in the past.
Thanks again Kiwi...

Ever had a better sleep because the sound of rain soothed your soul.

I believe we just touch the surface on the importance of sound.

Somewhere I heard, one song can change the world.

Fantastic thread.

I love the post. Not only well researched and surced but informative as well.

To add something different to the discussion of all that is old is new again, I would add that physioacoustics was a hot topic of discussion from about 1890 to about 1950. It then sort of disappeared. I suspect that it didn't disappear at all but became the sole province of TPTB. It was obviously used in areas like MKULTRA.

For a wonderful example in literature check out Heinlein's Revolt in 2100 .

Also Mythbusters had an episode on the subject but I'm having trouble locating a clip. Will post a link later when I can find it.

found link Mythbusters

[edit on 21-3-2010 by benadrit]

Originally posted by kiwifoot
***snip***

An appreciation of acoustic effects can be traced all the way back to our Palaeolithic ancestors. According to Igor Reznikoff of Nanterre University, Paris, they may have used sound to navigate around cave networks. Different echoes and resonances would warn of deep holes in the cave floor, for instance, so by making noises people could find their way in the dark, perhaps to gather together far from marauding tribes or predatory animals. Similar effects might even have scared off would-be attackers: make a low hum in the right recess and the growl of a bison might resound down a whole gallery.

This is best illustrated by the most amazing young man I've ever heard of:

Seeing with sound


[edit on 21.3.2010 by HolgerTheDane]

reply to post by amari


Was this 'melting pot of races' a kind of ancient multicultural society, or was it more out of necessity? Say, following a cataclysm which saw the survivors band together?

Off topic (mostly)

Not looking for any, but just voicing an observation. Has anybody else noticed that Sunday is a 'slow star day'? Do people get meaner on Sunday i wonder? Or just more critical?

[edit on 21/3/2010 by spikey]