HAARP Is Out Of Control, You be the judge!!!

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

You claim
"HAARP does not transmit (send out) ELF radio waves,"

ELF is not even a radio wave.
Why do you call other members IGNORANT
when you make statements like this in the same post??????
I have noticed most of your other opinions are very similar.

Uh, Donny? Radio waves can in fact be at ELF frequencies. What did you think it was, a small mythical wood creature?

Well just back this up with some non poppycock information if you want to continue to spin words and concepts.
Radio is free air transmission. ELF is not free air transmission.
If it is then all your HAARP retoric is just snake oil talk.

reply to post by Donny 4 million

Radio is free air transmission. ELF is not free air transmission.

Huh?

Rhetoric, did you say?

Would you care for some crackers to go with that soup sandwich?

so what about haarp being turned on aug 14 and a blackout occurred and the border was on lock down with military 3 hours before the black out???

that's not right is it???
_______________________________________________________


[edit on 18-3-2010 by jumpingbeanz]

reply to post by weedwhacker

Maybe he should get in touch with these guys and let them know they aren't really picking up radio waves.
www.vlf.it...

Originally posted by jumpingbeanz
reply to post by Bedlam

 

if that is not the case how do you explain starfish?

It's become obvious to me that I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

Let's back up and try again. Assuming I'm familiar with the underlying physics of the thing, so we don't need to repost the references, what are you trying to point out? I've reread the series of posts and I can't get it. Sometimes I'm thick that way, though.

I don't see any connection between ionospheric heaters and EMP induced by high altitude nuclear detonations (we call it ... HAND, way easier to type). They don't seem much alike to me, and I don't see any connection between the two physically.

Originally posted by Zeptepi
reply to post by Bedlam

 

oh.. you got it! glad to see another radio geek here. well said!
73 de Zep
dit dit

The entire "If I modulate a radio wave with (x) then (x) is now somehow magically carried into (destination)!!" thing baffles me.

For some sites that espouse this, I think it's likely to be intentionally fraudulent, for others, it's a giveaway that they're not really "PhD scientists" or whatever. I find it often goes along with sound=EM, which also baffles me when self-styled scientists pull that one, or when people swallow it.

Modulation products can be, as you are aware, quite complex for some modulation schemes like PM, even FM sidebands are nearly impossible to explain to people, occasionally you can explain AM or SSB to someone and they'll get it. But in all cases, the modulating signal vanishes and is only there in the relationships between the various sidebands produced. I guess it's just boring that way.

Yeah, I started off a HAM, got a 1st class RT as a teen and worked for the USCEC as a tech until I went away to spin-and-grin school to be a well-armed radio geek for the Army. Now I'm on the civilian side of things as a comm theory EE. One day if I get enough time, I'll finish that physics doctorate and become a "real syuntist", but man, I'll have to quit work to do it. Bleh.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Well just back this up with some non poppycock information if you want to continue to spin words and concepts.
Radio is free air transmission. ELF is not free air transmission.
If it is then all your HAARP retoric is just snake oil talk.

The term "ELF" is nothing but a description of a frequency range. Technically "ELF" can be applied to anything that has a frequency of 3-30HZ, although most people include SLF with ELF, and define ELF as 3-300Hz.

In practice, it generally refers to radio waves transmitted in that frequency range, although you could call anything with a repetition rate between 3-300HZ ELF, I suppose, in which case I have, for instance, an ELF heartbeat and blink rate, just as you have tried to say that low frequency sound is ELF on this thread.

The term "frequency" seems confusing to a lot of ATSers, and they treat it as if it is a proper noun instead of being an attribute of a phenomenon. Just because sound has a frequency, and radio waves have a frequency (usually), they are not rendered co-identical, anymore than an orange car and an orange fruit are somehow rendered co-identical by their color.

While I'm not at all certain what you mean by "free air transmission", it is true nonetheless that some radio waves are in the ELF-SLF frequency band. HAARP does not directly emit this sort of radio wave, but can in certain conditions cause it to be emitted by the auroral electrojet.

Originally posted by jumpingbeanz
so what about haarp being turned on aug 14 and a blackout occurred and the border was on lock down with military 3 hours before the black out???

that's not right is it???

[edit on 18-3-2010 by jumpingbeanz]

The link doesn't work for me, but if you're talking about the 14 Aug 2003 blackout, why would you associate that with HAARP? It's on a lot. It's off a lot. Just because it's on doesn't make it the reason that the blackout occurred.

One might also say the blackout happened because I was on my computer at the time. I mean, it was on, right? (I assume, not sure what I was doing that night)

At any rate, you want some real conspiracy horror, you should look into the control systems for the US AC grid. That is the most patchwork bletcherous kludge you've ever seen. I'm surprised it works, catastrophic failure isn't that surprising.

You may recall essentially the same area got dunked in 1965, which is way way pre-HAARP.

FWIW, we went through an exercise at one point in Infrastructure Busting class that revealed you could do major damage to the US power grid with a dozen determined people, a few 50 cal rifles and a small supply of high explosives. The weaknesses in the system would be easy to exploit. It doesn't take an ionosphere heater.

It's a lot tougher in Europe - their grid is better designed. Here, not so much. Thank the deity of your choice that no one with sufficient education and expertise has decided to cause some major economic terrorism. Yet.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

In the end it's a matter of understanding and evidence versus misunderstanding, ignorance, speculation and fear.

Lest you attempt to twist my intent let me lay out explicitly that you represent the latter and I the former.

Not bad Phage. Not bad at all. So, YOU ARE a Jedi.

There's a difference between fear and misunderstanding, as opposed to education though my man. It is essential that people know and understand what is occurring out here and that their minds are free. However after reading this post repetitively, I do see your point. It does spread fear, and fear should be eliminated.

I recognize you now. Its about time you started speaking MY language.

So, its not like others are going to understand this anyway even if you were to lay it all out on this board, but I have to know...What is your intent? U2U me please. And, I am being genuine here. We must talk.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Well just back this up with some non poppycock information if you want to continue to spin words and concepts.
Radio is free air transmission. ELF is not free air transmission.
If it is then all your HAARP retoric is just snake oil talk.

The term "ELF" is nothing but a description of a frequency range. Technically "ELF" can be applied to anything that has a frequency of 3-30HZ, although most people include SLF with ELF, and define ELF as 3-300Hz.

In practice, it generally refers to radio waves transmitted in that frequency range, although you could call anything with a repetition rate between 3-300HZ ELF, I suppose, in which case I have, for instance, an ELF heartbeat and blink rate, just as you have tried to say that low frequency sound is ELF on this thread.

The term "frequency" seems confusing to a lot of ATSers, and they treat it as if it is a proper noun instead of being an attribute of a phenomenon. Just because sound has a frequency, and radio waves have a frequency (usually), they are not rendered co-identical, anymore than an orange car and an orange fruit are somehow rendered co-identical by their color.

While I'm not at all certain what you mean by "free air transmission", it is true nonetheless that some radio waves are in the ELF-SLF frequency band. HAARP does not directly emit this sort of radio wave, but can in certain conditions cause it to be emitted by the auroral electrojet.

This is right from Phages link--

BTW HAARP was created as a WEAPON.

Definition of frequency bands (VLF, ELF... etc.)
text by: Tomislav Stimac (www.inet.hr...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For too many times I've seen wrong usage of terms like VLF, ELF and similar. As a matter of fact if you go and look over the web in articles connected with VLF, you'll see that almost everyone uses different terms.

(This means you guys Phage Wacker Bedlam)



However, to simplify things about VLF a good idea would be to use term audio frequency range. Imagine doing a project covering 20 Hz to 20 kHz, it would be annoying to write ELF/SLF/ULF/VLF all the time. But again it would not be correct if you just write VLF because there is much more in that range. Right? Instead, simply use term 'audio frequency range'. As I said in the beginning there are already dozens of articles with wrong frequency designations and a good thing would be to correct and minimize mistakes.

On some documents that describe electromagnetic spectrum you might see terms like LW, MW and SW. In a lot of occasions you might see them mixed in the same context as frequency range we mentioned above. For example here is a quote from one webpage: ''...extends thru LW, MW, HF and VHF.'' This is wrong! We talk apples and oranges here. LW is not LF, and MW is not MF, therefore you can't put them together in same context with HF and VHF.

The AUDIO range of frequencies is not radio.
BTW how would you guys transmit .5 Hz from NY to LA like a Ham would transmit on 30 meters.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
This is right from Phages link--

Well, no, it's right out of my head. I never visited Phage's link. I did flip open my copy of EE Handbook which is chock full of this sort of info to verify that I remembered the band limits of ELF correctly.

BTW HAARP was created as a WEAPON.

Well, I'd have to disagree with you there.

Definition of frequency bands (VLF, ELF... etc.)
text by: Tomislav Stimac (www.inet.hr...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For too many times I've seen wrong usage of terms like VLF, ELF and similar. As a matter of fact if you go and look over the web in articles connected with VLF, you'll see that almost everyone uses different terms.

Your link is dead. However, like I said, some people go by the 3-30 range, others include the SLF range into ELF and so on. (peeks) The guy you linked to that appears to be dead has been copied by some other people, he also cites 3-30 for ELF, 30-300 for SLF. So I assume you agree with me.

However, to simplify things about VLF a good idea would be to use term audio frequency range. Imagine doing a project covering 20 Hz to 20 kHz, it would be annoying to write ELF/SLF/ULF/VLF all the time. But again it would not be correct if you just write VLF because there is much more in that range. Right? Instead, simply use term 'audio frequency range'. As I said in the beginning there are already dozens of articles with wrong frequency designations and a good thing would be to correct and minimize mistakes.

Neat! A direct plagiarism!

The AUDIO range of frequencies is not radio.
BTW how would you guys transmit .5 Hz from NY to LA like a Ham would transmit on 30 meters.

Ah. We're back to not understanding the difference between audio and radio, and being confused by the concept of frequency.

It is very possible for the frequency ranges of audio and EM to overlap. That doesn't make audio INTO EM or EM into audio just because they have similar frequencies. Because, recall, frequency is just the rate of occurrence of something per unit time. ANYTHING that occurs repetitively has a frequency. That doesn't make things that are repetitive identical, just because they share an attribute.

It would be damned tough to transmit at 0.5HZ, because the antenna would be spectacularly long, probably in the thousands of miles, to get ANY efficiency at all. However, the Navy used ELF radio at 76HZ to communicate to submarines. It wasn't audio. At all. It wasn't audible, because it was a radio wave and not a sound wave. The Russians still use 82HZ, AFAIK.

I think the lowest band you can transmit on in the US as an amateur is 160kHz. That's radio. You can also find ultrasonic transducers that make audio in that range. That's sound. They can be at the same frequency and yet not be the same thing.

As an example, Here's a device for emitting 200kHz SOUND waves, and here's an amateur's setup for emitting 200kHz (or thereabouts) RADIO waves.

Don't be confused by that site you plagiarized using the term "audio frequency band" to mean that anything emitted in that band is, in fact, audio. It's just at an audio frequency, meaning, 20-20kHz is the outer range of human hearing. I could easily rig an LED to flash at "audio frequency", that wouldn't make it audible, because it's not sound.

(edit for grammar error)


[edit on 18-3-2010 by Bedlam]

Have you ever seen or heard of the American movie called Dark Storm I was watching it today and its concept of idea about a similar device that is similar to HARRP's destructive power is recreated into a machine that can deliver catasphrophic fractural damage to buildings/people/land with the use of dark matter. Its a good film to watch and trust it has very similar influence's to that of HARRP's satellities and trigger's.

Originally posted by DClairvoyant
Have you ever seen or heard of the American movie called Dark Storm I was watching it today and its concept of idea about a similar device that is similar to HARRP's destructive power is recreated into a machine that can deliver catasphrophic fractural damage to buildings/people/land with the use of dark matter. Its a good film to watch and trust it has very similar influence's to that of HARRP's satellities and trigger's.

Thanks for the post. I'll definitely check that out.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Maybe he should get in touch with these guys and let them know they aren't really picking up radio waves.
www.vlf.it...

I just wanted to bring Bedlam up to speed.
He probably works in the same office as you and grabbed the hand book right after you put it back on the shelf. Have you two met?
I have proved my case that radio is transmitted in free air and Audio
20 kHz and lower is just Low frequency or Audio.
It goes no further with me I am done with this derailing bunk.
One thing that rings clear is the fact that HAARP has a more well stocked tool chest.
Add the variables of nature and the ionosphere, WA-LA!!!
No wonder it is the playground of the rich and infamous.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
I just wanted to bring Bedlam up to speed.
He probably works in the same office as you and grabbed the hand book right after you put it back on the shelf. Have you two met?

Is this the new variant of the old "you are a government disinfo agent" gag?

I have proved my case that radio is transmitted in free air and Audio
20 kHz and lower is just Low frequency or Audio.

I'm afraid it proves you don't understand the difference between radio and audio, and the term 'frequency' seems to be confusing you here as well.

For fun, here is a schematic for a radio receiver for the range 100Hz - 11kHz. You'll note there is an antenna, and a distinct lack of a microphone. That's because it receives VLF radio. Which isn't audio, even if they are at the same frequencies.

reply to post by Bedlam


Sweet Bed, now we are getting some where.
Show me the drawing of the TRANSMITTER.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Sweet Bed, now we are getting some where.
Show me the drawing of the TRANSMITTER.

Hey, speaking of which, one of the guys that makes the output amps for HAARP is Continental Electronics. The HAARP output amp frame is a D616G. It didn't dawn on me that the ATS crowd would be interested until you said something about the drawing of the transmitter.

A VLF transmitter is a bit more complex. An example of one is an AN/FRT-87, looking for someone to have scanned one in. Standby.

Posting as I go here for VLF RADIO (not audio!) transmitter data:

A two pager on the FRT-4, a really old 50-150kHz rig

An interesting site on the old Cutler, ME Navy VLF site, with pics

A really simplistic block diagram of an AN/FRT-87

Here's a NASA one you'd have to pay to download

Some non-confidential info on the old Navy ELF sites


That ought to be more than enough to prove to the casual reader that VLF radio is radio, not some weird boogered up audio as you want to think. There's not so much non-mil use of VLF because it's not a useful radio link for commercial use, and it's closed to HAM use in the US.

Here's another somewhat interesting VLF transmitter document

reply to post by DClairvoyant


ever heard of the Shiva Star? it is in fact real and does exist

read the brief from wiki

en.wikipedia.org...

research and you will be amazed! there were many uses alot of ideas in what it could be used for

and was the Shiva Star going to be a weapon SDI weapon the project was canceled ? for what reason i wouldn't know yet

here is one brief from the wiki

Shiva Star was also used to develop an experimental weapon for the SDI effort between 1989 and 1995. The idea appears to have been to create "compact toroids" of high-density plasma that would be ejected from the device using a massive magnetic pulse.[2] The plasma projectiles would be shot at a speed expected to be 3000 km/s in 1995 and 10,000 km/s (3% of the speed of light) by 2000. A shot has the energy of 5 pounds of TNT exploding; although it caused little or no physical damage, the energy would shower the interior of the target with high-energy x-rays that would potentially destroy the electronics inside. The tests cost a few million dollars a year.[3] The project was scrapped at some time after 1995 because of problems keeping the plasma projectiles stable for the distances required by orbital weaponry.

now what would happen if someone got a hold of this and found a way to stable the projectile to work ?

you think this could be sort a like the Tesla Shield ?

Could it be Possible that HAARP EISCAT SURA etc... has something like The SHIVA STAR >? HAARP to mess with weather ? or the Aurora ? or other experiments
especially Plasma



they have made this device and so many Uses Example a weapon, a high-power X-ray research , magnetized target fusion research , dense plasma focus driver , and a space propulsion device ?

www.google.com... pdf&rct=j&q=shiva+star&ei=GjyjS4KNAsWAlAeSxKT_CA&usg=AFQjCNHgontqoNUPcA1D8b3nScqmqNAIsw

or the shiva laser
en.wikipedia.org...
replaced by the nova laser