Striking Chemtrail footage from Vancouver. Debunk this!

I wonder if there are any stories out there about these planes being inspected after being suspected of spraying unnatural substances.

I seem to recall something about the tanks and the system used to do the work,...would be easy for "experts" to analyze all that!

(Aren't there some "sky police" that could just check the "exhaust"?)

[edit on 8-3-2010 by On the Edge]

reply to post by On the Edge


Well, yeah. They are inspected between each flight. And not only for the silly stuff, but actual engine details.

reply to post by SantaClaus


I sense you are being sarcastic?

I meant a real search. By people in no way suspected of looking the other way.

Think: "Conspiracy"...?

I noticed leading up to the olympics there was a lot more prominent things that lasted for a long time and it makes me think about my beliefs of 'chemtrails'...

I took some photos of the 'not ordinary' ones...

I really dont think they're chemicals to harm people though they would dissipate so fast that high up. If anything I think they are what was mentioned in the HAARP thing, barium particles (I believe) that would make a reflective surface in the sky better for manipulating weather and visuals...

Originally posted by Romans 10:9

I took a 3 month log-book for upper atmosphere temps, upper wind speeds/directions, weather patterns, peak air travel days/times, ground temps, ground wind speed/directions, etc., and NOTHING correlated with these things being nothing more than condensation trails.
These things are a different animal.
Even the mainstream morning rock DJ's back in the late 90's where tripping out on them because in a matter of ONE day the skies changed and where criss-crossed with the trails that never dissipate and turn the skies cloudy.....and in some cases leave web-like material on the ground afterwards.
So please don't insult us and try to tell us that these are mere contrails......cause they're clearly not.

I don't believe that "clearly" is an applicable adverb for your position. You are welcome to believe what you wish. However, you log-book and a morning rock DJ "tripping out" doesn't lend any credence to the notion of the contrails in the OPs video being anything more than normal contrails. Also, "web-like material on the ground" is created by spiders and inchworms, not jet exhaust.

reply to post by Ridhya


The "not ordinary" ones are ordinary, you just don't know that. You haven't demonstrated that these "chemtrails" even exist, and yet you are already postulating on their uses? That is clearly irrational.

HAARP can't affect the weather. That is a ludicrous claim, and the only people who believe it are those who have no evidence for it, and don't have a clue as to how or why HAARP operates (although they will adamantly, and incorrectly, claim they have both).

i think its hilarious that ppl can make such proud and certain statements about things that have to do with technology most ppl dont know or think is possible to exist.

the only reason why we are able sit here and go back and forth anyway is because of a man named Nikola Tesla who made AC power possible and fought against an overwhelming power structure to insure that a superior and safer technology became the standard for power distribution. And knowing this, that this man, as odd or eccentric as he might have been, still responsible for a great deal of our modern way of life, made very bold and unapologetic statements that weather control was possible in HIS TIME, over a 100 years ago, people with no real understanding of the real power of some of our technology still have such definite and unmovable opinons about what we are capable of.

Now, Im not blessed with the kind of unique and powerful intellect to invent a modern age like he did....and im pretty sure most of the other posters on this site arent either. So...if i have to choose between alot of uneducated speculation on anyones part, or a genius and visionary of unparalleled measurement, i think ill defer to him.

Tesla said weather manipulation and control was possible, he also said with the right application of technology back then a person could create earthquakes, tidal waves and other events that mimicked natural disasters.

I dont need vast scientific proof to convince ppl of something they wont believe, even though they are benefitting every day from the inventions of a man who said these things could be done. I mean, it really IS like a parent who gives everything to a child, who provides for the wellfare of the child, and then with no real basis the child chooses to show a lack of trust in something the parent tells them just because the child doesnt WANT to believe it or do it.

Are chemtrails real? I BELIEVE they are...because i believe humans have always shown themselves to not leave well enough alone....and if i have to choose between a version of history and human behavior that is accidental and whimsical in nature, or one that is purposeful and intelligently directed, i will always choose the latter.....mainly because i think we just cant help but open pandoras box....history shows it in the past, and modern events show it now....this is who and what we are.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by ikonspyre]

Originally posted by On the Edge
reply to post by SantaClaus

 

I sense you are being sarcastic?

I meant a real search. By people in no way suspected of looking the other way.

Think: "Conspiracy"...?

Yes but as stated by another, I think alot of chemtrailers already have in mind that it is sinister so they are set in their ways. Let's say we found a plane accused of chemtrailing. We follow it and when it lands we send several independants to check the entire plane. Would they even believe them then if they came up negative? Frankly I doubt it. We'd start hearing about how they must not be truely independat or they were paid off. Bias is a terrible thing and frankly I think a load of people here are terribly biased and not nearly as open-minded as they claim to be.

People seem to think open-minded is synonymous with what they think is the truth. They find a few anectdotal pieces of evidence with no proof or science to back it up, then they believe it on this shaky foundation and BAM it's truth and this is what makes them 'open-minded'

We've seen Oz many times debunk this. We don't have anyone who has an actual analysis of these chemtrails to tell us what they are. Several people have shown how it is possible that these are contrails. We have traffic patterns to explain these grids. Tons of science to back up the contrail explination even when these 'shocking' videos are shown. I just don't buy it. So let me try a line of thinking here

We are going to suppose the chemtrailers are correct for a moment to make this logical argument easier. One of my favorite stories is the Detroit marathon. According to chemtrailers they sprayed and it killed three runners (not the fact that they just ran 26 miles which I have done personally and can tell you is dangerous)

So they sprayed and it killed 3 runners so let me ask this. If this chemical was strong, potent and dense enough to kill three runners how did the rest survive? There were other runners all around these three and yet they are perfectly ok.

Now as for general chemtrailing let's again suppose they are spraying us for depopulation. Why haven't we died in mass hoards? Why of all of these myriad videos have we not had deaths left and right over all these sprayed locations? The death rate has not only stayed the same but seems to have lowered a bit over time.

www.indexmundi.com...

So maybe the depopulation concept is bunk.

What else could it be? Weather seeding? We all know that is already true.

I just don't see how this idea of chemtrailing can hold water at all. It's very flimsy

-Kyo

reply to post by Game_Over

Very nice. I saw them too & so did a lot of my friends. I see them above my Bowen Island home as the air space is not restricted.. like the 'burbs' of Vancouver.

Yes, vapor trails are common too...& obvious...but others are not. The ones I watched being put down were from a really big, military JET!

But I can not understand why?? To make it rain, or snow or get sunny, cuz all 3 things happened.... sooo the WHY is still an unknown known for me...is it poison?

Could it be sprayed to kill "invisible" UFOs in out skies?...or is it to kill the "Living Critters"...space fauna...that many posts & UFO writers like Trevor James Constable discuss?

Originally posted by Game_Over
Originally posted by Game_Over

I understand what you are saying. It is air traffic. But why do the particular contrails only appear in the specific grid that somehow magically spreads out just right?

So of the hundreds of flights that go over Vancouver everyday and leave contrails that disappear after a few minutes, some will stick around and spread out because of prevailing winds.

So how does the wind decide which trails to expand and darken our sky and which ones to clear away?

So these planes just happen to drop a contrail that lingers and grows and joins up with other contrails that linger and grow and the hundreds of other planes in the air in the same day, at the same time don't.

Private companies and governments admit to weather modification and cloud seeding.

Yet, it is just the weather on any given day doing this?

Laugh it up buddy.









[edit on 7-3-2010 by Game_Over]

If you knew anything about the weather, you'd understand why sometimes things change in the atmosphere. I'm not gonna do the heavy lifting for you, cause like drummer dude, likely you need to beleive in them. But ask yourself these questions.

Why deposit chemicals miles above the ground, where the dispersion pattern is more unpredictable and can stay aloft for days. Do crop dusters fly mles high in the air or near the ground? Do you think that chemtrails are a recent phenomenon? If so explain why they were seen frequently during ww2 on both sides. While contrails are mostly a high altitude phenomenon, if you fly enough sooner or later you'll be on an aircraft that you can watch as make it's own contrail off the wingtips and engines as it passes through layers of differing densities, temperatures and humidity.
What you are having trouble with is simple climate physics, and since you dont know about the mechanism youre trying to make sense of it with what little you do know and substituting conjecture for fact. Easier for most people to beleive in the vague possible than accept that you are wrong.
OBTW when you start your car on a cold morning, is that a chemtrail you see coming out of the muffler pipe? Are YOU a chemtrail agent without knowing it?

[edit on 8-3-2010 by thatredpill]

Originally posted by secretnasaman
reply to post by Game_Over

 

Very nice. I saw them too & so did a lot of my friends. I see them above my Bowen Island home as the air space is not restricted.. like the 'burbs' of Vancouver.

Yes, vapor trails are common too...& obvious...but others are not. The ones I watched being put down were from a really big, military JET!

But I can not understand why?? To make it rain, or snow or get sunny, cuz all 3 things happened.... sooo the WHY is still an unknown known for me...is it poison?

Could it be sprayed to kill "invisible" UFOs in out skies?...or is it to kill the "Living Critters"...space fauna...that many posts & UFO writers like Trevor James Constable discuss?

I was in the af and flew in the big ones, and I can say that we did deposit chemtrails during ALL our sorties. They were composed of carbon dioxide and water mostly, some soot at lower altitudes and takoff, especially the B52's. Of course the older engines have water injection systems to boost thrust by adding additional mass to the exhaust plume, so the proportion of water vapor could be temporarily increased.
So there you have it, the chemtrails exist and are the products of combustion of fuel and oxygen. Alert the press!

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Contrails do not appear at that high, or during those atmospheric situations. Science does not generate proof. You do. For yourself. So have at it. Find something out.
Pretending to know that something isn't "real" simply because you don't know about it or haven't heard it is not using the "scientific" method, by the way. Nor is basing opinions on hearsay. Which would be thoughts such as "If I read something in a certain kind of book or journal, that's the truth, but if it's in some other kind of book or journal, it's untrue." Or such as "If a certain kind of person states something, that's true, but if another kind of person says it, it's untrue.
Closing yourself to information ensures that you won't have any. In my guess, having no information about something is not preferable to having a lot of information, some of which is a bit askew.

reply to post by thatredpill


I'm a B52 hound as well. Never flew but I was a 2W2. Before I got into the Minuteman project I was a delivery man for the packages during generations up at Minot. I know about the engines and yes they do release pollutants which can cause this.

-Kyo

reply to post by thatredpill


Spot on thatredpill

There's really nothing else to add - you've explained precisely what 'chemtrails' are.

And for those wanting more info on what they are seeing and how and why what they see occurs, try here:

www.airspacemag.com...

reply to post by Game_Over


Game, here's a site for you to monitor the commercial air traffic overhead:

flightaware.com...


AND, this one to see actual aviation charts (maps):

skyvector.com...

Type in 'CYVR", then push 'Go'

Select the tap labeled "Enroute H-1"

This will show you the Aeronautical Chart (US) for the area, those are the high altitude Jet Airways, and how they are arranged.

Sometimes, when you see the 'curves' in the contrails, it's because, well...the airplane has turned. That's what it looks like, as the contrails continue to form behind the airplane.

BTW, when you see them in a mostly east/west direction, those are trans-Pacific flights, from someplace OTHER than Vancouver, since they're just passin' by....

ALSO, not every turn is going to be directly overhead a ground-based navigational point. Often, ATC will authorize a 'short-cut', if there's a significant dog-leg in the flight-planned course. Traffic permitting of course.

If you want to hear them (won't always, but if you're patient you might catch on) you can
here.


You have to type in "KSEA" for Seattle, then select 'APP/CENTER'

There is no feed for Canadian ATC. (edit...seems there is, after all. I just had problems witht he site, apparently).

Unfortunately, also, there are more than one frequency for Center, depending on sector and altitude, and this site only offers one, it seems...








[edit on 8 March 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by secretnasaman
Yes, vapor trails are common too...& obvious...but others are not. The ones I watched being put down were from a really big, military JET!

What type of jet?

How did you know it was military?

Its a big claim to make and I'm curious how you back it up

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by Romans 10:9

 

Unless you can get exact meteorological readings at the exact location that a contrail is forming in, you can not rule it out as such.

Oh noes! Mainstream rock DJs! The stalwarts of weather science! It must be true! It's already been shown, many times over, how simple contrails can cause greater cloud cover. Web-like material? Ha! Evidence, please, of how (even if it exists, which I doubt) that it can be directly attributed to the witnessed trails.

They are just contrails. Your ignorance of the phenomenon, and strange desire to use DJs as some sort of weather instrument, does not change reality.

My point about the DJ's is that they are known for being some of the most anti-conspiracy, secular, cynical dudes on the radio.
Within a 24 hour period the skies went from bright blue to criss-crossed with numerous trails that were there all day long and turned into a thick haze that descended down onto Austin, TX.
The guys that usually make fun of AJ and 'tin-foil hatters', were suddenly trippin the F out and callin airlines and asking serious questions over it.
These things are not contrails.............but hey, whatever helps you sheep-i mean sleep.

Originally posted by Romans 10:9
These things are not contrails.............but hey, whatever helps you sheep-i mean sleep.

Enough with the snide stuff eh? Not needed.

What makes them different to clouds exactly?

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by Romans 10:9
These things are not contrails.............but hey, whatever helps you sheep-i mean sleep.

Enough with the snide stuff eh? Not needed.

What makes them different to clouds exactly?

Different from clouds?! Are you serious? Do clouds naturally form long lines in a neat criss-cross pattern, then gradually morph into a thick fog-like haze and turn a once blue sky into a gray one?

The question is, are they Con or CHEM trails...not clouds....and i've done enough research, and seen enough of both to know that these criss-crossed, hazed-up skies are not caused by condensation (ice crystals).
I mean it's almost to the point of straight-up common sense to know that these are not the regular old contrails that all of us were used to seeing in the skies 15 years ago.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by Romans 10:9]

What I find funny is that the debunkers don't seem to think that we don't know what normal contrails look like, I mean it's not as if contrails are a new thing.
So why do you think that all of a sudden people started to think they were chemtrails about 10 years ago, do you think that these same people 20 years ago were thinking the same thing, I would suggest not.
So why when we have seen contrails all our lives that we suddenly think they are now chemtrails? Because they are a lot different, for a start contrails only appear in very high altitudes, chemtrails are much lower in the sky and have shown to form cloud cover in the areas being sprayed.

If you don't think that they weren't thinking of using chemtrails then read the following which can be found at this link.

Chemtrails

This massive research study is entitled: Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base - Panel on Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming, sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, and the Institute of Medicine. The results were presented in 1992 and published in book form in 2000 by the National Academy Press. This 994 page study is the textbook on greenhouse gasses, global warming, policy decisions and mitigation's (corrective measures). Included within is the hard science many chemtrails researchers have been searching for: the scientists, agencies, institutions and corporations involved, cost factors, chemical formula, mathematical modeling, delivery methods, policies, recruiting of foreign governments, acquisition of materials, and the manufacturing of aerosol compounds, ect.

Now if you view the website you will see a picture taken from the book where it discusses the mitigations that can be used to combat global warming and I quote "Aluminium powder and barium oxide is sprayed in the troposphere by commercial and private aircraft to increase planetery albido and cloud cover."

So a book that was authored in 1992 and then all of a sudden there's people talking about seeing chemtrails in the sky, coincedence? Hmmm...