An appeal from a cop...

One of the police ploys in london, is to get there drug dealer mates, to hand out drugs in playgrounds of primary schools, and especially to kids of people they hate.

Nice people.

Police are 90% rubbish. Look above for 1 ploy of the criminals and how they operate with real criminals, to target individuals, of society they go after for no reason.

I have never commited a crime in my life, and they went after my life like there is no tomorrow, i am just glad i will never have any children for the drug pushers in the police to hand drugs too in primary school playgrounds.

Pure trash.

Policeman or woman answer that charge of what the police do in london, and i know this is a fact.

Police are pushing drugs in primary school playgrounds to little kiddies, of people they do not like.

Answer that, oh eloquent one. Oh i forgot you cannot, your mates in london are too busy pushing drugs in primary school playgrounds, and torturing there victims, to answer.

[edit on 3/4/2010 by andy1033]

My biggest issue with SOME Law enforcement is that JADED MINDSET you talked about.

Just like you mentioned that folks shouldn't say that ALL cops are this, that, or the other, so too - that PREJUDICIAL jaded mindset literally violates an individuals good intentions if the jaded mindset creates the typical 'you tried to attack me' accusation when someone walks up to you and reaches out to shake your hand.

There's three additional points I'd like to address about law enforcement practices that violates CONSTITUTIONAL rights.

1. What's up with the aggressive line of accusational, yet unfounded questions - that most folks would feel intimidated by, which immediately follows a blatant statement of 'fact' from the officer which explicitly slander's a person's character - all of which was not even necessary, and had no foundation or cause to be asked about and then accusationally telling the person being questioned that that was what they either were doing, about to do, or intended to do.

Some things are just wrong about the way law enforcement goes about treating their fellow citizens. and I'm not talking about someone being apprehended either, i'm talking about simple stop and question incidents.

2. Many times - when questioned by an officer, the answer to his question oddly turns into an unrelated interpretation by the officer of the exact words I had just said.

I don't know what brand of English these law enforcement officers speak, but I was clearly speaking the English language, and that with an intelligent mind and focused intent.

anyway, other than that I appreciate what law enforcem,ent does, and respect you guys for the duties you must perform.

Above all else however PLEASE never lose sight that you are dealing with fellow American citizens - please give us the respect you wish yourself.

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by Everwatcher33
when did it become necessary to place 50,000 laws (made it up, but you get the picture) to govern the people of this country?

as soon as it was decided that govern meant "control every aspect of human behavior"!! the police are not there to govern, ensure government or enforce the will of government, they are there to protect the safety of the people.

you just don't seem to get it!!

I actually heard recently a statement, backed by his collegue, that "police are NOT here to protect you" Wonder what they meant?

reply to post by JWH44


Well if i would take wild guess, the situation should be something like this...the most of people who start working with law enforcement, are decent and honourable, and want nothing else than serve and protect..but at the end of day you are just human beings, that are thrown in a position as ambassadors and the frontline for a corrupt government...same government who don´t give a rat ass for the american people and haven´t for many of years...so the government start brainwash you and say things like""the people are bad"" and send you out on the streets to try to control the ""bad people""...Well those bad people are the americans, who are so so tired and disappointed at the selfprofit and corpown government that let them down for so many years.
So some people start to develop Hate, which is only human...

...Well there you have it sir...all the ingredients in a big anarchy soup, which you are starring the role as ambassadors for the corrupt government...

A tip is dont keep focus on your neighbour, start paying attention on your corrupt members of the government...

But...what do i know im from sweden...

reply to post by JWH44

My guess would be as a CI. (No, that does not mean Criminal Investigator)

CRIMINAL INFORMANT.

Anyone with a brain knows that LEO's use CI's to snitch on other criminal elements. A lot of the CI's do not realize though that LEO's find CI's to be as detestable as any other criminal.

That sir, was an attack and the mentality that LEO's have for citizens at large, how can we turn one into a CI and use them to further our career as a PRISON GUARD in the US.

No one hates all cops - no one hates Andy Griffith, lol, but there aren't any of him around anymore, if there ever were. My 80 y/o dad says...at one time, there were.

I dunno. My first experience with cops were when I was 4 or 5...my uncle had been arrested and the cop had beat him with a billy club and he had to be taken to ER to get 106 stitches in his face, head and back.

People don't hate the rule of law. People don't like bullies bullying them. If everyone thought every cop or law enforcement officer was so bad, you'd not admit to being one.

I got threatened with arrest one time because I asked a question. I've never been arrested. I've never been a criminal. (Unless you want to drag up one of the stupid vague laws you guys have I don't even know about...like wearing my underwear inside out on occasion or something.)

I think it is interesting that you think you are able to judge them. :-) That's the big problem, to me. The cops always get to judge the cops. How about we see some CITIZEN review panels for police misconduct?

Bleh. I'll start respecting law enforcement when I see some evidence they are respecting the average poor person on the street.

reply to post by Romans 10:9


100% of the cops I have dealt with were wonderful and I was a hellraiser as a teen

OP I salute ya...I am Air Force. I was a 2W2 (Nuke troop) and have personally been a target of insults because I worked on the ICBM project (from what I gather I am the devil for working on such weapons) so I know how ya feel

Now with that said I have the utmost respect for you sticking your neck out every day you walk into work. I love cops...yes I am realistic to know there are jerk-ass cops out there but consider this...

www.fbi.gov...

The above link is the crime statistics REPORTED by the US

I made reported big for a reason. This is the amount of actual reported crimes in 2008 and thus this is how many calls our cops and federals have gone out on during 2008

In 2008 there were 22,301,854 reported crimes. 22.3 MILLION calls our cops have gone out on or our federals. Now with that said how many stories do we see involving bad cops a year. How many? hundreds? thousands? Heck I will give you 10,000 (being very liberal because I am sure someone will say "well how many abusive calls DON'T get reported?")

so 10,000 calls where a cop turns abusive.

Statistics will tell you that with 10,000 bad cop calls a year divided by the totals crime calls gives you .00044% of cops going bad on a call.

Don't like that statistic? How about 100,000 cop calls going bad? That raises it to .0044% gone bad

Fine fine...I'll do you one better....let's say 1 million calls go bad.....044%...that is the statistics...

Now let's be realistic...even 1 bad police call is a bad thing. Any human unfairly treated is very wrong especially if you look at this by a personal viewpoint but to sit and say that every cop is wrong? Look at the stats. IF and I do mean IF you had 1 Million bad cop calls you have a .04% rate of cop calls going bad. That means 99.06% are routine or don't result in a poor decision.

So here is my conclusion and some final points

1. What do you consider a bad call? A taser that was unprovoked? Sure I agree with you there. If I willingly gave up and got shot I would be pretty pissed too. How about a cop talks back to you? Is that a bad call? Well maybe if the criminal wasn't doing 25 over and giving the cop grief there would be alot less of that.

2. How many extreme calls do you see? How many cop calls have we seen results in an unfair tasering or a Rodney King style beating? 20 a year? 100 a year? 1000 a year versus the tens of millions where a cop does his job?

3. The focus…this is a two-parter

a. What was the perp doing BEFORE the camera was turned on? Was he throwing crap? Fighting? We don’t know

b. How many MILLIONS of calls do we not notice? How many times does a cop save a girl from an abusive parent? Heck even pull a cat from a tree? No we only focus on destruction! We are a sick species that we yawn at creation and love and caring but get excited over destruction and hatred! We’d rather talk about that idiot Tiger Woods sleeping around. That pre-empted a story where 4 cops GOT MURDERED!

That is my rant…I love the police who save lives and have to stand up to your flaming and ridicule. As I said…even 1 bad call where some poor young girl gets tasered is bad. I am not a hard-heart. I feel for them but we’re ready to yell police state or cops suck when if you have even 1 million bad cases that only equals .04%???

Not for me…to ALL the good cops out there…and I know you outweigh your bad brethren…I salute you…I love you…thanks for being there

-Kyo

Originally posted by JWH44

Originally posted by sparrowstail

Originally posted by JWH44
reply to post by randyvs

 

Therefore, I think it is necessary to provide a counterpoint in response to some of the more outlandish statements that are made by the few.

........while not discounting the factual ones. ....sir

I sincerely hope I haven't given that impression. I made it a point in my OP to state that there are factual accounts of police brutality. I don't deny that.

Just checking. There are so many shades of gray when it comes to the ideology of law enforcement and the State.

To serve and protect in my opinion also means playing devil's advocate even if it goes against your fundamental stand. I guess I see it as protecting our democratic freedoms to oppose (peacefully) your personal stand or beliefs regarding law enforcement practices and not get pi$$ed off about it.

I swear I'm not trying to antagonize you

chirp

reply to post by JWH44


I can respect and see your point of view. Btw what you pointed out isn't just a U.S. problem, but a world wide problem.

We've had numerous examples of police bad behaviour here in Canada as of late. I believe the crux of police perception problems to be how they investigate themselves. How can LEA's investigate themselves? This shouldn't happen, and I think it's obvious that the public is outraged. Recently our RCMP have decided that they will no longer investigate themselves, and will pass the investigation on to other LEA's. I'm not sure that's going to work either. Think about how ridiculous it would be if I was implicated in a crime and asked my family to investigate, or my cousins. Of course there would be bias.

What probably needs to happen is the creation of a purely civillian investigatory agency which exclusively investigates cops. This could be made up of attorneys and judges. In my opinion until this happens your problem will continue to exist.


[edit on 4-3-2010 by davec0021]

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by JWH44

 

I am going to postulate several things here and I would like you try to prove any of it wrong.

1 People are beginning to REALLY detest government at large due to its actions to try and control every aspect of society, hence leading to the hate for LEO's, the enforcement wing of said government.

2 Us civilians, the way you folk like to refer to us, have NO right to tell you LEO's that you should be held to a higher standard than ourselves. Because we (civilians) do not walk in your shoes.

3 True Criminals, ones where there is an ACTUAL victim, are being released to make room for STATUTE BREAKERS that have HARMED NO ONE.

4 LEO's want the ability to have more rights than average citizens, because of their positions of SUPPOSEDLY more dangerous jobs.

I could go on, but I will leave you with this.

When a society is governed by a TYRANNICAL government, that believes citizens do not know what is best for themselves and will pass any and all legislation to make said citizens SLAVES to the bureaucracy, when do the PRISON GUARDS realize they are ALSO PRISONERS in the same society?

Or are they JUST as thick as the elite's they follow?

You want me to speak about this larger picture? I will agree; there are societal issues as a whole that I am not in a position to change. There, is that what you want me to say? Oh wait, you want me to quit serving the tyrants that pay my salary. Well, what good does that do? If I clear out my desk and walk out tomorrow, what changes?

If you feel like directing your frustration at the law enforcement institution as a whole because we are the most direct end-user representation of a system you don't like, then be my guest. I can't change your opinion and I knew that before I started. I don't hold that against you; in fact, I am happy that we live in a country that allows you to hold those opinions. I don't choose the laws I enforce. I have discretion in how I excercise my authority, but that is about it. If the laws change, i will change what I enforce.

I feel that our country still has some means to govern itself. Sites like this, if constructive and cooperative, can draw grass-roots supporters across all walks of life and society. Howerver, hate and fear-mongering do nothing to advance your cause.

I had no intention of letting this post go down that road. I actually don't want to even respond to this type of statement becasue it is not relative to the point I was trying to make. I made no claims in my post that I had the solutions to societies problems. Problems that I readily acknowledge.

Originally posted by JWH44
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Then I think you see that my post wasn't really directed at members such as yourself. I appreciate that you have a more solid understanding of the realities of our profession. As I have said many times, there is not a single law enforcement agency that doesn't have its share of bad apples that make it that much harder for the rest of us to do our jobs.

By posting this thread, I simply felt a need to speak out about my feelings regarding some of the more anti-law enforcement voices that lurk on these forums. For those that understand, I thank you and I do not lump you all into the same voice. Also, i just wanted you to know that there is one more voice from the law enforcement community that pays attention to what is said on this site and takes an interest in your opinions.

I'll tell you all something... I think America, in particular, is leading the world in a steady degradation of police mentality. Here in New Zealand, the police are still decent people who treat the public in a friendly and courteous manner. Heck, even when they arrest someone, they will still show the accused person an amount of respect, depending on the tension levels at the time. They use words like "please" or "I'm sorry sir, but we're going to have to..." What they show is, you don't have to act like a hardass in order to enforce the law.

Now, from what I know first hand and also from other reports, the American police are taught at their academies to put on the staunch tough-guy routine, so as to portray a certain image. The OP said that the police in America are only confronting the bad parts of society, but I would suggest that they are surrounded also by a lot of decent people who are afraid to wave at them or say anything to them to encourage them.

I know that people in the U.S. used to wave to police and say hello to them... the proverbial "Mayberry" idea where the police were a respected part of the community... but I also know that most people even try to avoid making eye-contact with police for fear of being hassled or looked at suspiciously.

Let's face it... the idea of "To Protect and Serve" is no longer there. In fact, the idea that a police officer is there to help individuals who are in trouble is hardly there any more, being replaced by the idea that cops are there to "protect" the infrastructure from people, and to "serve" the interests of the city corporation and public as a whole. In other words, it is the city/business structures + cops against the individual citizens.

Perhaps the cops feel it is not in their interest to be friendly or nice to the law-biding citizen because they have to maintain a constant "us vs. them" mentality, so they will not gain a sympathy for individual members of the public... I don't know. Perhaps they feel that if they are not constantly in a posture of "defense/offense" they will be lulled into a place of potential danger when trouble does strike. I'm only surmising here.

I'm not sure what the answer is. Certainly it is good that these officers are willing to march into a situation that most people would run from. It would be nice though if officers could smile at the good citizens, and be more like a parent who punishes bad behavior but also rewards good behavior. I think they could brighten their own day (and life) if they try to maintain a more positive outlook on things.

One suggestion... as part of the "police officer mental health program" I would suggest that officers be required to go an see some good things that are being done by people. In other words, when good and beneficial things get done, police officers SHOULD be present to witness this side of society. When someone gets an award for achievement, there should be some officers there to help give the award. This would do wonders for public relations, and it would help to keep officers from becoming too jaded. Just a suggestion.


[edit on 4-3-2010 by downisreallyup]

Originally posted by hthjason
Wonder what they meant?

i suspect they meant that they are not "the police", they are LEO's, law enforcement officers, they are there to force you to comply with the law through threat of force and nothing else.

[edit on 4/3/10 by pieman]

reply to post by endisnighe


You're right; I should have not allowed myself to sink to his level. It was a flip remark in response to his outlandish statement. I apologize.

reply to post by downisreallyup


Not only that, but you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar......just can't catch any bees!! Their radar is whacked!!

reply to post by JWH44


this is the exact reason for my distaste in police/authority.

every single officer adopts (eventually) this distinction between "us" and "them".

soon to follow comes the attitude that we need "them". You forget that the only reason you all have the body armor is because YOUR THE ONLY ONES ALLOWED TO HAVE IT. Society is set up that way!

if we were allowed everything the SWAT team was allowed, and the second amendment was enforced the way it was supposed to be...we wouldnt need police.

and honestly if it had been working that way up until now there most likely wouldnt even be any gangs/crime. because it wouldnt turn into a damn $JOB$

poeple would just have to learn to protect their #! or lose it!

I don't agree completely with all of it but I do understand what you are saying. Cops are people too, people aren't perfect. Cops deal with a lot of things that put them in a mentality that can cause them to indeed be suspicious and paranoid. There are good cops, and there are bad cops, and to not stereotype them all based on just the negative experiences with law enforcement.

I have personally had a traumatic experience with law enforcement, which does cause me to tend to feel negative towards cops. But I do know that they are people, and I try to see them as that, instead of authoritarian thugs who see me as nothing more than job security and a way to raise funds.

I still am unable to justify the way cops use excessive force, or nonlethal, but extremely painful weapons as a form of punishment or way to coerce someone into doing things outside of their free will that does not directly impact the safety of the officer, others, or themselves.

You did make a lot of good points though.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by DJM8507]

reply to post by hthjason


I tell you what. I had alot of fun back then. The local cops always get you the most you know. It got to where a few of them would look for every way not arrest me. Couple times I got let go with a promise to appear.
Couple O.R.s but if I had to go I'd just smile and say well ya know this could be a rescue instead of an arrest. All depends on how you look at it.
I used have my arresting officers ltao.

reply to post by JWH44


Although I am relatively new to this site as a member, Ive been coming here for years. That being said, I do find it disturbing that in the past few months I have noticed a dramatic increase in not just outspoken hatred towards LE, but also towards the military, and even now America in general.

Im starting to get so sick of seeing so much hatred and discrimination here. Have we truly forgot what we are all here for? To work together to DENY ignorance, not harbor and promote it. This is supposed to be a conspiracy site. Granted, there are some posters that blow me away with their insights and knowledge of underground topics, but more and more I see threads with the sole purpose of venting negativity and hatred at the expense of others.

Seriously people, if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all. The people on here that are trying to LEARN something will thank you, it will be less crap to sift through while we try to enlighten ourselves. I hate to say it, but the maturity level is sometimes lackluster, and I dont need to name any names, you know who you are...

[edit on 4-3-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

RIP Bill Cooper - gun downed by a cop.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by fianna]

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013
Seriously people, if you dont have something nice to say, dont say anything at all.

evil can only flourish while good men stand by and say nothing.